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[pwfaith]

For the same reason you support vasectomy(with saying prostate cancer isn't proven), I support tubal ligation, saying PTLS isn't proven either.

FTR, I don't "support" either one, I'm simply refuting some of your misinformation and assumptions based on other peoples experiences rather than medical facts. You are correct, both are debatable among professionals. However, if they are both proven to exist, which would be worse? (look up symptoms of PTLS)

My husbands great uncle got a vasectomy and had prostate cancer after wards. I really don't understand why you are SO against this. I have never, ever, known a woman who got a tubal, who then wound up pregnant, had a fluctuation in her desire, or any of the other problems listed. My mom has never had any problems with it, and her Dr. recommended it.

Personal experiences of a few people you know do not equate medical facts. My husband's grandfather had prostate cancer and never had a vasectomy, so what? This is like saying I know someone who was in a car accident and got breast cancer, there for the car accident must have given it to her. The reason studies are not conclusive is b/c all the objectives have not been considered to the fullest to know if it truly is from the vasectomy or something else entirely. You cannot base a decision solely on the few people around you and their experiences. If I had done that I probably would have never had children b/c all I ever heard were horror stories from women, but their experiences were not mine and I ended up having wonderful experiences. Just b/c you don't know someone personally who has not experienced one of the PTLS effects, does not mean they don't exits. To make such claims is naive and goes again fact. I'm glad your mom has never had any problems. Many women haven't. That however does not mean the 100s of women who have had problems don't count just b/c you don't know them.

FACT: Post tubal syndrome (PTS) is known and understood by the medical community, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) and their 40,000+ obgyn members, but as a policy of ACOG standards, this information is withheld from women.

The CPTwomen is NOT anti-tubal. We believe that tubal ligations should be made a choice to women as a form of birth control but with FULL informed consent. (taken from Tubal Ligation: Campaign to Inform)

​

I agree with this last part. My goal is not to support one over the other or promote one over the other, it is simply to inform you and clear up some of the misconceptions you have been posting here on this topic. I think it's great you have the option to make such a decision but it certainly should be an informed on - informed by books, online sites and medical professionals, not your mom or your friends experiences.

I'm kind of upset because I feel you are attacking my personal decision, or that you're trying to scare me out of this. I don't feel you respect my decision at all. You've said you "feel I should do more research", which implies that I don't know enough about this. I don't appreciate that one bit. I'm all for getting info and help, but you've taken the "info" and used it to try and build up a vasectomy to be better. That is YOUR opinion. I know plenty of women who would say otherwise.

I am sorry I have upset you, it is not my intent, nor is it to attack your personal decision b/c that is precisely what it is. No, I'm not trying to scare you out of this but yes I do believe you are uninformed, naive and don't know much about this, esp reading many of your comments that are just plain incorrect.

I am not trying to build up a vasectomy as I've said, we've done neither - vasectomy or tubal. So why would I be for either if we've not had either done and never plan to? As I said earlier I am trying to correct your false statements. There is a difference between fact and opinion. The medical FACT is that a vasectomy is a minor surgical procedure, where as a tubal is a major surgical procedure. The medical FACT is that it is the most cost-effective form of permanent birth control, costing half as much as a tubal ligation. The medical FACT is vasectomy is simpler, safer, cheaper and takes less time to recover from than tubal ligation. These are not my opinions, these are the facts based on medical knowledge of both as stated by professionals.

Take it from a professional and not me...

Once you're confident that you're ready to put your reproductive years behind you, there are two options: vasectomy (male sterilization) or tubal ligation (female sterilization). Vasectomy makes you sterile by cutting the pipelines (the vas deferens) between the testicles and the penis. These small tubes are located just under the surface of the scrotal skin, and it takes less than 15 minutes in the doctor's office to snip them and seal the ends under a local anesthetic.

Tubal ligation involves cutting and tying a woman's fallopian tubes, which are well below muscles and other tissue in the abdomen. It requires a general anesthetic and a hospital visit.

A couple of statistics might make the differences even more clear:

• Fatalities per 100,000: tubal ligation = 3.51; vasectomy = 0
• Approximate cost: tubal ligation = $2,500; vasectomy = $750 - 850

Their failure rates are just about the same: 1 in 2,000.

Still, most men naturally squirm at the thought of anyone tampering with that part of their bodies. If you hear horror stories about vasectomy, press for details. I assure you the tale will turn out to be at least third-hand and groundless. I've done more than 4,500 vasectomies and have never seen a serious complication. The most frequent comment is, "You mean it's over already?"

When a man has a vasectomy Friday afternoon and follows instructions—uses ice packs, elevates his feet and is inactive for the weekend (no matter how good he feels)—he's back to work on Monday barely feeling a thing.

It's worth discussing with your doctor what approach he uses and how many vasectomies he's done. Technique and experience can make a significant difference both in how quickly you're back on your feet and also in the likelihood of failure.

Is sex different after vasectomy? Not at all. Because the testicles supply less than 5 percent of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], there's no noticeable difference in the sperm. Erections and sex drive are unaffected—though freedom from worry of pregnancy often enhances a couple's sex life.

What about long-term health effects? No repeated studies have ever documented a hazard to men who have had vasectomies. And recently, researchers at Harvard University reported in the New England Journal of Medicine results from the largest study ever of vasectomized men. They were unable to associate vasectomy with any health problem in 14,607 vasectomized men.

(taken from malehealthcenter . com)

My personal opinion is - it's your decision and should be made as a couple together after researching and knowing all the facts. I do prefer a vasectomy over a tubal b/c I do believe it is safer, less invasive and carries less risks than a tubal, but again it is something each couple must decide for themselves.

 

[Created2Write]

As does mine I HATE the idea of a tubal lol which leaves us where we are now.

They still "release" as you have put it it simply just does not contain sperm in the "release" - so no worries there, you get to still feel that. I think what you do not seem to understand is even with a vasectomy, he will stay the same, just like you - the only things that change are his "release" will not have sperm in it to get you pregnant and/or your eggs will not be making it to a place where they can be infiltrated. As far as sexual desire and activity, that will be the same.

The sperm was what I was referring to. I like feeling it when he releases. So, yes, it would change for us as there would be no sperm entering the vagina.

 

[Created2Write]

I refuse to keep responding to this. You keep leaving out SO much of my posts, the most important parts of them, that nothing I say further is going to matter. I have said in almost everyone of my posts in this thread, that my reasons for choosing tubal ligation is because my husband hates the idea of a vasectomy. I don't hate the idea of tubal ligation at all. I have also said, more than once, that it will be at least ten years before we even think about sterilization! So I really don't care what the facts are right now, because they don't matter! I am quite certain that, in ten years, BOTH procedures will be vastly different. I have made myself as informed as I need to be for the time being, and will continue to do so as the medical field changes.

That's all I have to say, as you have failed to respond to those parts of my posts. Again, thanks for the info, but it doesn't really matter since the decision is so far away for us.

 

[pwfaith]

My father-in-law was the one who said the shot went directly into the testicles. An article I read on a medical website alluded to the same thing, and as I'd never heard anyone counter that, I never questioned it. I'll look into it.

The website I gave actually has definitions and pictures that are very helpful in understanding.

Hence, why I have decided that, when the time comes, I will be getting a tubal ligation.

Have you asked him if he wants you to get one and if he has researched what all will be involved in it for you? just curious. My DH likes to be totally informed on all this kind of stuff lol he actually enjoyed me reading to him from my pg and bfing books and has been known to be a good source of information for guys in his shop at work

Please stop concerning yourself with this.

Honestly I'm probably not as concerned as I seem. Improper information and incorrect facts are sorta a pet peeve of mine, sorry.

I honestly don't think my decision would change. For your info, the women who said that did NOT have natural child-birth. They used the drugs. I also don't intend to have a child naturally. Drugs for me, thank you. lol. And, even if I did have five kids naturally without drugs, if my husband was SCARED, I think it would be incredibly wrong of me to expect him to get a vasectomy.

Just be sure you do your research first on those drugs and how they will effect the baby and your ability to deliver.

plus I feel you've taken things I said out of context, and I do not appreciate either one.

I have not taken anything out of context. I'm just going by what you've said.

I don't mean any disrespect, but I am not as "ill-informed" as you think.

Some of your comments have suggested otherwise. Again, I have simply tried to provide you with information to correct some of the misconceptions and false statements you have made here - you cannot substitute opinion for fact. It just doesn't work like that.

And as my husband doesn't like the idea of getting one, the decision isn't hard for me.

I honestly have nothing against you wanting to do it for this reason. You may be surprised to know I heavily considered a tubal for the same reasons. I just can't bring myself to do it with knowing all that I do about it. I would not dare try to pressure my husband into a vasectomy either when I know he is against it for himself. That would be rude and disrespectful to him. My problem has solely been with some of the comments you've made that were purely incorrect based on medical fact. It's not about me being right and you being wrong, it's simply about the facts and what we know about vasectomies. You made a statement about them not being about to "release" (aka [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]) - that is factually incorrect to say. They can "release". Those are the kind of comments I have been attempting to correct. It has nothing to do with your decision based on this quote right here, it has to do with other "reasons" you've thrown in that are not true or medically based, they're just opinion (that goes against medical fact).

 

[pwfaith]

The sperm was what I was referring to. I like feeling it when he releases. So, yes, it would change for us as there would be no sperm entering the vagina.

Ty, I know exactly what you were referring to and YES there will be. This is exactly what I have been talking about. This statement is untrue. sperm DOES come out, they DO [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] - however the sperm does not contain any sperm. The sperm is what gets cut off from entering into the sperm. So, NO, it wouldn't change anything for you.

 

[pwfaith]

I refuse to keep responding to this. You keep leaving out SO much of my posts, the most important parts of them, that nothing I say further is going to matter. I have said in almost everyone of my posts in this thread, that my reasons for choosing tubal ligation is because my husband hates the idea of a vasectomy. I don't hate the idea of tubal ligation at all. I have also said, more than once, that it will be at least ten years before we even think about sterilization! So I really don't care what the facts are right now, because they don't matter! I am quite certain that, in ten years, BOTH procedures will be vastly different. I have made myself as informed as I need to be for the time being, and will continue to do so as the medical field changes.

That's all I have to say, as you have failed to respond to those parts of my posts. Again, thanks for the info, but it doesn't really matter since the decision is so far away for us.

Again, I'm sorry you feel that way. Really, none of the surrounding information that I cut out (to save space) would change what was said. I understand it is a long ways away for you. Again, my point was merely to correct the incorrect, misinformation and/or myths you were stating. I understand they were your opinion, but even opinion can be wrong sometimes when facts tell us otherwise.

 

[Easyk]

sperm is the fluid with nutriants and counter-angents all to keep the sperm alive till it reachs the egg.

it is produced by the prostrate gland.. and as he ogs, it pulse pushing the sperm down the tube, along the way sperm is added to the mix and out it comes..

a vasectomy will simply stop the flow of sperm..

and prostrate cancer, they remove the prostrate and no more semon..

 

[ex-nihilo]

sperm is the fluid with nutriants and counter-angents all to keep the sperm alive till it reachs the egg.

it is produced by the prostrate gland.. and as he ogs, it pulse pushing the sperm down the tube, along the way sperm is added to the mix and out it comes..

a vasectomy will simply stop the flow of sperm..

and prostrate cancer, they remove the prostrate and no more semon..

A vasectomy severs the vas preventing the sperm from entering the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. A vasectomy does NOT prevent the production of sperm cells. For the average male, between 200 and 400 MILLION sperm cells are produced every single day. Severing the VAS allows this sperm to enter your blood stream. If the VAS were not severed, as God has created you, the sperm would be removed from the body by [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-in effect staying in the urinary tract.

Please ask your doctor just what happens to all that sperm that is produced each and every day AFTER you have your vasectomy. Most won't give you an answer. Some will tell you 'it's absorbed by the body-like eating a sandwhich'-but most just simply don't know that it's your immune system that must rid the circulatory system of this sperm.

God has designed men in such a special way of keeping sperm cells out of the blood stream, because sperm cells have very strong enzymes on their surfaces and only half a DNA strand. What does the body think is happening? The immune system is sent on full alert to fight off a perceived infection of millions of invading cells per day, and the body becomes “autoimmune”, i.e. the body goes to war on itself.

Specifically, your white blood cells must take care of this new 'invader' that now courses through your bloodstream where before the vasectomy it did not. And remember, sperm is designed to live in the harsh environment of the female anatomy: it has a hardened enzyme 'head' to resist immuno-response- very well designed by our Creator to fertilize the egg, but very difficult for our white blood cells to seek out and destroy.

Don't believe me? Have your anti-sperm anti-gen measured before your vasectomy and then have it measured after your vasectomy. They will draw blood from your arm. If sperm does NOT cross the blood barrier, then PLEASE explain why your anti-sperm antigen count goes through the roof after having a vasectomy. Also have a CBC done-you will see an elevation in the white blood count that may or may not come down. Sperm related auto-immune reactions can carry on for years-once you open Pandora's box ie: once you have anti-sperm antigens in your bloodstream, studies have shown that they can remain there for upwards of 20 years in some subject.

Most men don't experience a reaction if their immune systems are healthy however a lot of men will experience immune related symptoms and have no idea that they are related to the vasectomy. And the insidious thing is that these reactions may not kick in until years after the vasectomy when the immune system is challenged by something else.

Bottom line- DON'T DAMAGE YOUR STONES!

It's un-biblical (as I have shown and no one has refuted)
It's potentially dangerous and if your man does suffer from the side-effects, are you willing to go to work and support your family if he can't work anymore due to the complications? Are you willing to spend the $5,000 to $15,000 to have it reversed in the hopes of curing the post vasectomy pain syndrome?
Are you doing it out of convenience (don't want to use alternate forms of birth control) without weighing the possible risks to your husband and family life?

Your body was designed by the Creator. Don't mess with perfection.

 

[pwfaith]

A vasectomy severs the vas preventing the sperm from entering the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. A vasectomy does NOT prevent the production of sperm cells.

I was under the impression that cutting the vas prevents sperm (yes it is still created) from entering the sperm which is what is [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Sperm is created in the testicles, travels up the vas - which loops up over the bladder, down past the Seminal Vesicle and joins with the urethra in the prostate. When the vas is severed it prevents the sperm (that was created in the testicles) from combining with the sperm in the seminal vesicle. Therefore sperm still exists, it just does not contain any sperm.

 

[pwfaith]

Most men don't experience a reaction if their immune systems are healthy however a lot of men will experience immune related symptoms and have no idea that they are related to the vasectomy. And the insidious thing is that these reactions may not kick in until years after the vasectomy when the immune system is challenged by something else.

This was something that also concerned my husband. He's never had a good immune system.

 

[Peripatetic]

A vasectomy severs the vas preventing the sperm from entering the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. A vasectomy does NOT prevent the production of sperm cells. For the average male, between 200 and 400 MILLION sperm cells are produced every single day. Severing the VAS allows this sperm to enter your blood stream. If the VAS were not severed, as God has created you, the sperm would be removed from the body by [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-in effect staying in the urinary tract.

Not all sperm are [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Even if you don't have a vasectomy, quite a few of them die and are reabsorbed into the body. Many Christians would say that a single man should not have sex or touch. Therefore, his only means of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is "nocturnal emissions", which don't happen that often and would only release a small percentage of sperm. Since the Bible clearly promotes singleness as a viable option, it stands to reason that the human body is made to reabsorb sperm.

You are right that different antibodies can develop when the sperm is released into the blood stream. I did ask my doctor about this and research it. For most, there are no ill effects. As with any medication or procedure, there are rare side-effect risks for a small percentage. If there was a widespread lowering of immune system post-vasectomy, the procedure would not be practiced regularly and probably not even approved.

For what it's worth (which isn't much), the last time I took a sick day at work was the day after my vasectomy procedure in 2005. So it certainly didn't negatively affect my immune system...

 

[Peripatetic]

Your body was designed by the Creator. Don't mess with perfection.

You may not have meant it this way, but the position that we should keep our bodies just as God made us can be a tricky one. A person who is legalistic in that way could not get a circumcision, pierce their ears, shave their beard, wear makeup, get corrective surgery for their eyes, change their hair color, etc. Some take it even farther and refuse medication too. Again, I'm not saying that you take this position, but it's a slippery slope...

 

[Easyk]

It was perfection when we were first created.. but as time has passed more chaos has entered the universe and our genetic structure... errors are the result.. doc are there to help.. jesus never condemned doctors...

 

[ex-nihilo]

I was under the impression that cutting the vas prevents sperm (yes it is still created) from entering the sperm which is what is [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Sperm is created in the testicles, travels up the vas - which loops up over the bladder, down past the Seminal Vesicle and joins with the urethra in the prostate. When the vas is severed it prevents the sperm (that was created in the testicles) from combining with the sperm in the seminal vesicle. Therefore sperm still exists, it just does not contain any sperm.

Indeed the sperm does exist and continues to be produced however, due to the vasectomy, the sperm now circulates in your blood stream-something it was never designed to do. Your husband is/was wise to avoid this procedure.

And about modifying your body, eyesurgery, circumcism, etc will not cause ongoing auto-immune response (however some breast augmentation has been shown to have severe complications) so my point is that if it not harmfull to your body then it's at least ethical.

If you want more information on the negative health impacts of vasectomys then give 'dontfixit' dot org a look.

The complications can be horrendous.

 

[ex-nihilo]

Not all sperm are [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Even if you don't have a vasectomy, quite a few of them die and are reabsorbed into the body. Many Christians would say that a single man should not have sex or touch. Therefore, his only means of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is "nocturnal emissions", which don't happen that often and would only release a small percentage of sperm. Since the Bible clearly promotes singleness as a viable option, it stands to reason that the human body is made to reabsorb sperm.

You are right that different antibodies can develop when the sperm is released into the blood stream. I did ask my doctor about this and research it. For most, there are no ill effects. As with any medication or procedure, there are rare side-effect risks for a small percentage. If there was a widespread lowering of immune system post-vasectomy, the procedure would not be practiced regularly and probably not even approved.

For what it's worth (which isn't much), the last time I took a sick day at work was the day after my vasectomy procedure in 2005. So it certainly didn't negatively affect my immune system...

I'm glad that your vasectomy worked out for you however you should continue to monitor your health as it can take many years for complications to show up.
Also, be careful about any research you do. Just looking at websites about vasectomies can be very biased towards getting a vasectomy since they are usually hosted and paid for by doctors and companies that make money off these procedures. I've seen quotes anywhere from 1 in 1000 to 1 in 10,000 for complications, both ridiculous for two reasons. In my own personal circle of friends, 12 men have had vasectomies, with 3 having bad side effects and 1 suffering from post vasectomy pain syndrome - 5 years out now. Now his wife has to work and support the family because he is incapacitated by this.
I've spoken to my doctor about this and he looked into his own practice and found that the complication numbers are closer to 1 in 250 in his own practice-from men he refered to different vasectomy clinics- in recent history...a much larger sampling size.
So when you so your research, the gold standard is the double blind clinical tests and there aren't many of them done on this procedure. Suprising since millions of men are getting it done. The ones that are can be found in your local university medical library.

One Doctor that's done a bit of research on this procedure is from Australia. His name is Dr. Lou Zaninovich and he's written a book called "Vasectomy- Before and After". You can google it. I do recomend it because it contains advice that you can take to reduce your risk of complications in the future even if you've had a vasectomy. You can also research the medical studies he quotes in his book. I did and was amazed. (ie: 10 vasectomized monkeys all developing pre-mature hardening of the arteries due to the by-products of the 'breaking down of sperm in the bloodstream by white blood cells, and more scientific studies).

Bottom line, if you are thinking about sterlizing yourself, even if they tell you that the risk of complication is small, when it affects you it's 100%, and you have to live with the decision and it's effects on your family and ability to support your family.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I know a guy who got a vasectomy. His best friend got his wife pregnant.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I know another guy who got a vasectomy. His wife divorced him afterwards and called the cops on him when he got drunk and showed up at her house at 3 am. She married the cop who arrested him and had the cop's baby.

 

[Easyk]

I know another guy who got a vasectomy. His wife divorced him afterwards and called the cops on him when he got drunk and showed up at her house at 3 am. She married the cop who arrested him and had the cop's baby.

lol, kind of reminds me of the cops show.. where the lady is talking all about why she loves the work.. a cop blows a redlight and she pulls the person over.. much to her suprise, it was her husband and the neighbour .... all she said after the fine "We will talk when i get home"