Smith Wigglesworth ....

[Larry_Fout]

In his Book "Smith Wigglesworth, The Secrets of His Power", Random House 1982, Albert Hibbert, who knew him well, proposes this :Since the time of the Apostles few people have accomplished more in the realm of the supernatural than Smith Wigglesworth.Having made this staggering claim, I now ask the question:What are we going to do about the awful responsibility that rests upon us.? The time of ministry is so short, the day of accounting is so near, and we seemed to have accomplished so little.

If you haven't read the book and have an interest In Smith Wigglesworth it may be a worthwhile project. Only about 112 pages and easy reading. His complete dedication to the Word of God and steadfast belief in power over the enemy, death and sin are nothing short of astonishing. Setting aside the miracles for a moment I ask myself this question, "do I measure up in any way to a man like this"? Whether or not it is embellished doesn't matter. The balance of the equation now becomes a function of scripture, faith that delivers and what is on the other side of the equals sign. Passages like the following encourage to live, walk and commune with and in the spirit, and speak to God.
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Whatever he did or didn't so Smith Wigglesworth said this, "God has privileged us in Christ Jesus to live above the ordinary human plane of life. Those who want to be ordinary and live on a lower plane can do so, but as for me, I will not."



God Bless You All,
Larry

 

[JimB]

What is wrong with pointing out a person whose faith is not the normal run of the mill and showed people what you can do by having faith. He is a real inspiration. This does have to do with Pentecostals/Charismatics - it is a real inspiration of growing your faith.

What is wrong with it is that too much of the time the reports are more fiction than fact, more legend than truth. In my forty years of chasing spiritual fire trucks, I have been in gatherings where things were reported to have occurred - like the ‘shekinah glory’ rally at the Music Hall in Houston in 1969 - that simply never happened. I was personally at that rally, as were many of my colleagues. None of us saw anything like a cloud. It was a powerful move of God, to be sure, but no cloud was seen or reported at the time. The only ones who reported it were people who were not there. In the years that followed, a dozen evangelists spread the fiction; none of whom were at the gathering.

Then there’s the uncle of mine who was definitely a very charismatic individual who ministered through the South during the 40s and 50s and whose reputation grew to almost Odysseus status. He laughed at the reports of his imaginary “exploits” and wondered how such stories ever got started. He told me that if half the things that were reported to have happened in his meetings had been true “I would have really been worth going to see.”

That’s why, I do not accept at face value second-hand reports or possibly even embellished first-hand ones (even those printed in books) because my faith must stand on truth not fiction. It is the truth, not legend, that sets us free. Let Jesus be your model and you won’t go wrong. Let men be your model and you will set yourself up for disappointed. “No flesh shall glory in His presence.”

~Jim

 

[probinson]

That’s why, I do not accept at face value second-hand reports or possibly even embellished first-hand ones (even those printed in books) because my faith must stand on truth not fiction. It is the truth, not legend, that sets us free. Let Jesus be your model and you won’t go wrong. Let men be your model and you will set yourself up for disappointed. “No flesh shall glory in His presence.”

~Jim

With that logic, how do we KNOW the Bible is true? I mean, it's just first-hand accounts from some guys that were with Jesus. How do we know that they are not embellished reports? A guy walking on water? Feeding 5,000 people with 5 loaves and 2 fishes? Raising people from the DEAD?! How do we KNOW, or rather, how do we PROVE that these are factual accounts and not embellished, fictional reports of some guys who wanted to make Jesus look good?

 

[JimB]

With that logic, how do we KNOW the Bible is true? I mean, it's just first-hand accounts from some guys that were with Jesus. How do we know that they are not embellished reports? A guy walking on water? Feeding 5,000 people with 5 loaves and 2 fishes? Raising people from the DEAD?! How do we KNOW, or rather, how do we PROVE that these are factual accounts and not embellished, fictional reports of some guys who wanted to make Jesus look good?

It's not logic, Pete, it's faith. I KNOW the Bible is true the same way you know: because I have put my faith in it and it has proven itself to be true.

~Jim

 

[probinson]

It's not logic, Pete, it's faith. I KNOW the Bible is true the same way you know: because I have put my faith in it and it has proven itself to be true.

~Jim

I agree.

But my point is, how do you KNOW you're saved? Show me the proof? Where's your salvation certificate? How do we know Laazrus was dead? Can someone show me his death certificate. Show me the before and after medical records of Lazarus. I'd like to talk to someone who ate from the 5 loaves and 2 fishes.

The point is, we can choose to believe or we can choose to doubt. We should not need "proof".

Now then, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[JimB]

I agree.

But my point is, how do you KNOW you're saved? Show me the proof? Where's your salvation certificate? How do we know Laazrus was dead? Can someone show me his death certificate. Show me the before and after medical records of Lazarus. I'd like to talk to someone who ate from the 5 loaves and 2 fishes.

The point is, we can choose to believe or we can choose to doubt. We should not need "proof".

Now then, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

We are talking apples and oranges: faith vs. knowledge. My point is, it’s not a matter of proof, it is a matter of faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence (proof) of things not seen. Still, because I have believed I have often seen the glory of God (Jesus' words to teh sisters of Lazarus). My faith proves itself to be true. So, I do not need scientific or logical proof, or the reports of the exploits of others. Faith is superior to logic/knowledge because human knowledge is limited and has an end and where knowledge ends faith has to take over.

~Jim

 

[womanofgodwcci]

We are talking apples and oranges: faith vs. knowledge. My point is, it’s not a matter of proof, it is a matter of faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence (proof) of things not seen. Still, because I have believed I have often seen the glory of God (Jesus' words to teh sisters of Lazarus). My faith proves itself to be true. So, I do not need scientific or logical proof, or the reports of the exploits of others. Faith is superior to logic/knowledge because human knowledge is limited and has an end and where knowledge ends faith has to take over.

~Jim

hallelujah, glory to God. I receive that Jim.

 

[womanofgodwcci]

I am convinced, after years of studying the guy, that most/many of the reports of Wigglesworth’s exploits are legendary and not based in fact, just on unconfirmed reports from his admiring followers. This is not to diminish Wigglesworth or his effectiveness as a minister, but I know too many famous men who have deeds attached to them that never happened.

One of them was a close relation of my wife who became a legendary evangelist and church planter in the 1930s-60s. I would hear his name crop up in a sermon every now and then, recounting some healing or miracle or deed that was supposed to have happened in one of his meetings. The preacher did not know I was there, usually, and would embellish the story to suit his needs in the service. Some of the stories, while based on a grain of truth, were largely manufactured, embellished and passed on from one preacher to another until my wife’s uncle had reached legendary status. This is exactly what I believe happened with Wigglesworth.

I once recounted some of these stories to Uncle S--- just before he passed away. He slapped his knee and laughed and said that if they were just half true he would have really been worth going to see. Smith Wigglesworth would probably do the same.

~Jim

One could say what you say, but whether it is truth is based on whether or not you were there to witness it, and since you were not (NOR WAS I), it is best to allow others to BELIEVE as they wish based on what they have read. It is really no different than those who read the word of God and CHOSE TO BELIEVE in Christ. We can all play opposite advocate with everything in life, but truth of it comes from those who read and believe. We can only believe based on what the Spirit of the Lord tells us. I love Wigglesworth faith in God. I love how it shows me to BE different from the world. I love that it teaches me that the supernatural that I have witnessed for myself is worth walking in and BELIEVING that God is that powerful. Whether his life is truth or not, I know that God CAN and IS ABLE to do all. Wigglesworth gives believers a goal to reach in God and expels the senselessness of the world's belief in that God is just a figment of our imagination. It adds to the Bible the validity that Christ is not the only ONE who can experience God in a miraculous and dynamic way...WE CAN TOO, if only we BELIEVE!!

 

[Larry_Fout]

Matthew 14:27-31
But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. [28] And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. [29] And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. [30] But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. [31] And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Anybody recall that story? Everyone who has been in church for any length of time has probably heard at least 2 sermons concerning it. To read that amazing story and try to imagine it just like it must have happened is an absolute thriller for me. Yet there are people who grin a cynical grin when reading or hearing it. Remember, the winds were violent the waves were high, it was dark, the Apostles were afraid, and someone was coming toward them on top of the water. Although there were reassuring words "Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid". The condition proposed by Peter to Jesus that he may know that it was Him, or perhaps know even more, was (paraphrased) "Lord, if it's really you, tell me to come to you and let me do the same amazing thing you are doing!" You all know the Paul Harvey version of the story.

Jesus was always encouraging others to strengthen their belief. It was the gateway, the path for deliverance and healing.

Recall the story of the boy possessed with a dumb spirit (demon)?
Mark 9:18
And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.

I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.

Mark 9:19
He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

Mark 9:23-24
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. [24] And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Mark 9:26-29
And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead. [27] But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose. [28] And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? [29] And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

Why could not we cast him out?

Weren't they still in the boat!!!?? Lord "let us do the same amazing thing you are doing..how do we get there"? Had they not heard the answer and the remedy that had already been given?

"O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you"
"If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth."

The prayer of the father of the boy is touching and a good template for many , "Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. "

It doesn't really matter for purposes of my remarks whether Smith Wigglesworth was instrumental in any miracle. We all know that if it happens it only happens through God. Although, I will say that there has been so much written about him by various people I would find it extremely hard to discount all of it. What strikes me the most is the energy with which he served and trusted God. I'll just recant one of his remarks:
"God has privileged us in Christ Jesus to live above the ordinary human plane of life. Those who want to be ordinary and live on a lower plane can do so, but as for me, I will not. ~Smith Wiggelsworth~ Greater Works

Smith Wigglesworth says if some of you would like to stay in the boat that's fine, but I'm stepping out in faith. I hear the voice of Jesus, the call and I'm headed for the voice that's calling me.

2 Cor. 5:7
(For we walk by faith, not by sight)


Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! ~Patrick Henry March 23, 1775~


God Bless You All,
Larry



Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[peacechild4]

Amen to the two last posts..

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It is the truth that makes us free, Sharon, not fables, no matter how much we would like for them to be true.

~Jim

I suppose that I have the privilege of hearing from a man who was Smith Wiggleworth's constant companion while the evangelist was in NZ. He came out here two occasions and Walter Cantrell was with him on each occasion. He confirms that most of what was said about Smith Wigglesworth was absolutely true. Within the same fellowship, I met a group of old people who were present in his meetings in Wellington NZ, and they reported the same things, and their lives were totally changed. I spoke to them in the late 1960s, so 40 years later, they were still speaking of Him in very positive terms. They did not think that the stories about him were fables or legends at all. They experienced him first hand, and you can't get much better evidence than that.

I also have his collected works, and Smith Wigglesworth himself testifies to the supernatural episodes that occured during this ministry. So, coupled with a number of witnesses, plus his own words, I think that the 'legend' idea is full of holes.

I think that group of old people if they were still living, if you told them that the testimonies about Smith Wigglesworth were fables, they would rise to their full height and punch you right in the kneecap!

 

[womanofgodwcci]

I agree. I know I am inclined to think that I believe but am often surprised at what comes out when I am sorely tested.

So what is the remedy for unbelief ?? How do we go from weak faith to strong faith ?

The word of God is the only way. We must stay in His word, walk in His word, BEHAVE His word and then we will be His word as Christ was, as the example of Wigglesworth was, WORD LIVING FLESH. I don't generally use the word "weak" faith, but faith that has not been exercised is better termed for me. In order to move to a more mature walk in God, it takes one thing ONLY, His word. Once your mind is truly and completely renewed by it, there are no boundaries, limitations or walls. There is no unbelief or second guessing. It all becomes as natural as it was intended to be from Eden. I am inclined to take to heart the examples of Christ and all disciples (INCLUDING Wigglesworth, when I know that it is going to exalt my Father. In order to do that, we must do what they all did, stay in the Word of God.