Small sin, big sin....same

[Bruno]

Today at 04:40 PM Gwindor said this in Post #17
Uh, everyone sin. You can't stop sinning. you can ask for forgiveness. As long as you get to heaven, you will be free of sin. you don't bring sin there, as there is no evil there.

You are right. Everyone sins. What matters is what is in your heart. Do you feel remorse after you sin? Do you ask for forgiveness? Do you stop repeating your sins? What God wants is humans to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. He is looking for men and women who are willing to use Jesus as their role model.
If that is what you choose, He will guide you by your hand to heaven.

 

[Bruno]

Today at 05:10 PM Arikay said this in Post #20
Are you saying god gave many the knowledge to tell the difference between good and evil before they ate the fruit?

From the way I read it. Man could not comprehend good or evil until After they ate the fruit. So god told them it was wrong to eat the fruit, but since they cant comprehend good or evil, then they didnt really understand god. If they could comprehend good and evil (which is needed to understand wrong and right) then that means god gave them the sin.

 

What it all comes down to is whether you are willing to listen to and trust God. Adam and Eve didn't, therefore they died.

 

[Arikay]

A quick 2 questions:

would you trust god?
why, why not?

Would you trust satan?
Why, why not?

Today at 06:25 PM Bruno said this in Post #22


 

What it all comes down to is whether you are willing to listen to and trust God. Adam and Eve didn't, therefore they died.

 

[Aaron11]

The fact that one sin can separate us from God's glory does not necessarily imply that all are equal. However all were fatal, until Christ arose... Thank God!

 

[Aaron11]

Hey there... Im new at this whole forum deal... but one thing that i was thinking might have been a little overlooked in the earlier part of the thread, was:

God is love, love for self is not true love, that is why God made people (to love and to reciprocate that love). In order for people to show true love for God, they must have free will.

 

[HesMyAll]

Yesterday at 05:10 PM Arikay said this in Post #20

Im not sure im understanding.

Are you saying god gave many the knowledge to tell the difference between good and evil before they ate the fruit?

From the way I read it. Man could not comprehend good or evil until After they ate the fruit. So god told them it was wrong to eat the fruit, but since they cant comprehend good or evil, then they didnt really understand god. If they could comprehend good and evil (which is needed to understand wrong and right) then that means god gave them the sin.

Im confused now.

I will pray that God will release you from confusion. 

 

[Arikay]

Why cant you explain it to me?

Today at 06:22 PM Hesmyall said this in Post #26



I will pray that God will release you from confusion. 

 

[Bruno]

Yesterday at 09:33 PM Arikay said this in Post #23

would you trust god?
why, why not?

I trust God 100%. He has NEVER failed me.

Would you trust satan?
Why, why not?

Never. he has lied to me way too many times...

 

[Arikay]

So you trust god because he has never been wrong.

You dont trust satan because he has been wrong before.

Before Adam and Eve ate the fruit, did they know the difference between Wrong and right?

Today at 07:22 PM Bruno said this in Post #28



I trust God 100%. He has NEVER failed me.




Never. he has lied to me way too many times...

 

[Aaron11]

Irrelevant Arikay. You are trying to change the whole discussion. But if you wish...

Do you know what all Adam and Eve knew? Do you know what it was like to live in a garden with God?

You assume that they did not know that it was "wrong" to eat the fruit. What is wrong? Do you know what wrong is?

They knew it was against God's will... that is all that they needed to know. Even today, all you need to know to tell right from wrong is God's will. That defines what is right and wrong.

 

[Arikay]

How did Adam and Eve know the difference between right and wrong before they ate the fruit?

Today at 09:31 PM Aaron11 said this in Post #30

Irrelevant Arikay. You are trying to change the whole discussion. But if you wish...

Do you know what all Adam and Eve knew? Do you know what it was like to live in a garden with God?

You assume that they did not know that it was "wrong" to eat the fruit. What is wrong? Do you know what wrong is?

They knew it was against God's will... that is all that they needed to know. Even today, all you need to know to tell right from wrong is God's will. That defines what is right and wrong.

 

[Aaron11]

Because God told them that it was against his will. Not complex. I notice you did not care to answer any of my questions.

Why do you assume that they did not know that it was wrong to eat the fruit? Do you know what they knew? What is "wrong"? How do you know what is right or wrong?

 

[Arikay]

actually, I missed them before.

Why do you assume that they did not know that it was wrong to eat the fruit?

Because knowledge of right and wrong, come from the knowledge of good and evil. Since the fruit gave them the knowledge of good and evil, I am assuming they lacked this knowledge before they ate the fruit.

Do you know what they knew?

nope. All I know is that they gained the knowledge of Good and evil after eating the fruit. To gain something, they needed to not have it. So we can assume they didnt know the difference between good and evil before they ate the fruit.

What is "wrong"?

The opposite of right. Part of the general idea of evil, as evil can sometimes be put in the place of wrong, or it can be the cause of wrong.

How do you know what is right or wrong?

According to the bible, I know what is right and wrong because Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.

Today at 10:16 PM Aaron11 said this in Post #32

Because God told them that it was against his will. Not complex. I notice you did not care to answer any of my questions.

Why do you assume that they did not know that it was wrong to eat the fruit? Do you know what they knew? What is "wrong"? How do you know what is right or wrong?

 

[jodrey]

I've thought about this concept before. Adam and Eve didn't know right from wrong; however, they were commanded not to eat; however, they were also commanded to be fruitful and multiply, and they knew they could not do so without first eating the fruit which gave them the knowledge. Does this mean they were forced to eventually eat the fruit? The temptation would seem very great, plus God basically gave them contradictory commandments. It's almost as if they had to sin. I think the type of knowledge they would gain from eating is different than the simple commandments of God. Every person has a consciense, and the fall is what gave us that consciense, which is why after the fall... "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:" God's commandments gave them knowledge, but not real knowledge of good and evil. They had these two commandments and they knew they were supposed to obey God.

Anyway, you guys don't realize what a big topic you've brought up. I won't get into it right now, but maybe later. Lots of stuff gets involved, like free will. Sweet. I love these kinds of discussions.

What was the original topic here? Oh yeah. Any sin will keep you from getting into heaven, but some sins are harder to repent for. That's the difference. The difference is there because of this knowledge of good and evil. We are initially less tempted to kill someone than to, say, cheat on a test. The cheating is the lesser sin partly because God understands the temptation and our weak will to it. If we commit murder usually we feel great amounts of guilt. This is also tied to the simple severity of sin as it offends God. Murdering one of his children is far worse than cheating on a test, but both are sin. This isn't an easy topic either, but I think I got my point across.

 

[Arikay]

Very interesting, I wouldnt mind hearing more of your thoughts on the topic. Although possibly in a new thread, I think its off tracked this one enough.

Today at 12:16 AM jodrey said this in Post #34

I've thought about this concept before. Adam and Eve didn't know right from wrong; however, they were commanded not to eat; however, they were also commanded to be fruitful and multiply, and they knew they could not do so without first eating the fruit which gave them the knowledge. Does this mean they were forced to eventually eat the fruit? The temptation would seem very great, plus God basically gave them contradictory commandments. It's almost as if they had to sin. I think the type of knowledge they would gain from eating is different than the simple commandments of God. Every person has a consciense, and the fall is what gave us that consciense, which is why after the fall... "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:" God's commandments gave them knowledge, but not real knowledge of good and evil. They had these two commandments and they knew they were supposed to obey God.

Anyway, you guys don't realize what a big topic you've brought up. I won't get into it right now, but maybe later. Lots of stuff gets involved, like free will. Sweet. I love these kinds of discussions.

What was the original topic here? Oh yeah. Any sin will keep you from getting into heaven, but some sins are harder to repent for. That's the difference. The difference is there because of this knowledge of good and evil. We are initially less tempted to kill someone than to, say, cheat on a test. The cheating is the lesser sin partly because God understands the temptation and our weak will to it. If we commit murder usually we feel great amounts of guilt. This is also tied to the simple severity of sin as it offends God. Murdering one of his children is far worse than cheating on a test, but both are sin. This isn't an easy topic either, but I think I got my point across.

 

[Aaron11]

Today at 02:01 AM Arikay said this in Post #33

Because knowledge of right and wrong, come from the knowledge of good and evil. Since the fruit gave them the knowledge of good and evil, I am assuming they lacked this knowledge before they ate the fruit.

My point exactly.  You are ASSUMING that they lacked certain knowledge before eating of the tree.  Why is that assumption any better than assuming that they did know that it was wrong?

 

[Aaron11]

sorry that i didnt know how to quote you in that darkened box thing...

anyway, another thing that i was thinking about on the topic...

Adam and Eve should have known to trust God (obviously God felt so). Instead they were DECIEVED by Satan. So, since they weren't given a true view of good vs. evil, it seems reasonable to say that they had to abstain from the fruit IN FAITH. They had to put trust in God, a being who hadn't revealed to them all things. With their lack of faith/trust in God, it makes sense that they did not "know" what right or wrong was. However, if they had faith, it would have enabled them to know it was not "right" to eat of the tree.

 

[Bruno]

Yesterday at 11:23 PM Arikay said this in Post #29 So you trust god because he has never been wrong.

He has NEVER lied to me.

You dont trust satan because he has been wrong before.

satan is a king of deceit. That is his main purpose. And yes, he has been wrong many times.

Before Adam and Eve ate the fruit, did they know the difference between Wrong and right?

God gave humanity (Adam & Eve) a choice to know evil, or not. He told them that they would die if they knew evil, yet they chose it anyway.

 

[Arikay]

You are ASSUMING that they lacked certain knowledge before eating of the tree.

Because the bible said they lacked that knowledge. The bible says they gained knowledge. The only way to gain it is to lack it before they ate the fruit.

Bruno: sigh. They didnt understand what evil ment, so how could they understand that it was a bad choice?

So far, it seems very few are understanding me.

 

[bluesonata]

Im not sure im understanding.

Are you saying god gave many the knowledge to tell the difference between good and evil before they ate the fruit?

From the way I read it. Man could not comprehend good or evil until After they ate the fruit. So god told them it was wrong to eat the fruit, but since they cant comprehend good or evil, then they didnt really understand god. If they could comprehend good and evil (which is needed to understand wrong and right) then that means god gave them the sin.

Im confused now.


If you re-read the verse...it is pretty apparent that God TOLD them it was wrong and that if they did it they would bring death upon themselves.  Man cannot claim ignorance.  God's wording was very clear on the subject.

Adam and Eve DID NOT have the knowledge of good and evil before they ate the fruit.  It was not God's intention that man have that knowledge.  But man did not have to have that knowledge to go against God's will.  God's requirement of man was OBEDIENCE.  Adam decided NOT to obey God, and through his act of disobedience did he learn the knowledge of good and evil.