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Small Groups and the Dialectic Process

Jesus Is Real

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http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/3-purpose.htm

Are you aware, brethren?

One more thing:
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Dialectic: Using dialogue as a means to resolve conflicting positions. Synthesizing a thesis
with its obverse, or antithesis. Thesis + Antithesis= Synthesis. (A + non-A= A.)

Praxis: To practice the experience of speculating, conjecturing, theorizing, etc.

Diaprax: The dialectic driving for unity through the "controlled" use of cognitive disso-
nance, within the environment of social praxis. To praxis the dialectic.
Dean Gotcher
_______________________________________________________________________________________
 
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desmalia

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You won't find too many around these parts who buy into Rick Warren's crap.
I went through one of his small group programs (before I knew anything about him or his work). The fellowship was good (of course it was already a solid group of Christians), and we did get into some great ministry opportunities. But we ended up chucking the book part way through because it was so useless and off base. Since then I've seen his programs destroy whole churches.

Want to see effective use of small groups? Check out the Truth Project.
 
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Tenebrae

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Praxis, nothing more sinster than a fancy word for practical experience.

I engage in social work praxis on a daily basis. I use other peoples praxis to inform how I practice
 
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Simon_Templar

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Praxis, nothing more sinster than a fancy word for practical experience.

I engage in social work praxis on a daily basis. I use other peoples praxis to inform how I practice

I see you have yet to learn that the actual definition of words isn't really what they mean... what they really mean is what she says they mean. You see the words are defined by her paradigm, and if your paradigm isn't her paradigm.. then you're paradigm is of the devil.
 
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Nadiine

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My mom's Baptist church did an adult Sunday School study based on his book.
At this stage in time, I think it's best not to do group studies based on these people's books & materials...or at least limit it and keep more in
scripture which we know is safe for spiritual consumption.
 
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Nadiine

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Praxis: To practice the experience of speculating, conjecturing, theorizing, etc.
Praxis, nothing more sinster than a fancy word for practical experience.

I engage in social work praxis on a daily basis. I use other peoples praxis to inform how I practice

The problem with that one is that it's like anything else in life - things can be used for evil/harm and things can be used for good.

Praxis is no different than anything else - like the internet.
It's a neutral thing until it's used by people differently. The internet can be extremely helpful and be used for alot of good.
It can equally be extremely harmful and used for alot of evil.

Things are neutral until they're used in a certain way - for a certain purpose. For good OR evil. God will judge all that becuz He knows motive and heart.
 
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MrJim

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I agree very much
 
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Tenebrae

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The end really is near

This is the third time now, and the second time in two days that I've agreed with Nadiine.

Well said
 
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Nadiine

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The end really is near

This is the third time now, and the second time in two days that I've agreed with Nadiine.

Well said

lol

I think the problem is over generalization
 
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desmalia

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Generally I agree with that. There's so much crap out there that we have to be really careful about what we're doing in small groups study.

The Truth project is done by some very reputable leaders such as Zacharias, MacArthur, and Sproul. So that already gets big points as far as I'm concerned. It's goal is to teach the fundamentals of the faith and specifically how laypeople can learn to recognize subtle lies (such as postmodern ideas, etc.) as they try to creep into the church. And it's run in such a way that the videos lead the group, instead of just having "dialogue" about a particular issue. I haven't done it yet, but my mother has and she's very impressed. And she's not one to fall for fads and programs.
 
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Nadiine

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that sounds great to me!
Worth checking out for sure
 
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Simon_Templar

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more what I was getting at is the fact that all the word praxis means is "practice". Its silly to attach some big ideological meaning to the word, making it some kind of buzz word.
 
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Tenebrae

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more what I was getting at is the fact that all the word praxis means is "practice". Its silly to attach some big ideological meaning to the word, making it some kind of buzz word.

Couldnt agree more.
 
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Nadiine

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more what I was getting at is the fact that all the word praxis means is "practice". Its silly to attach some big ideological meaning to the word, making it some kind of buzz word.
ya, I think in another post about this I used the same word: Buzzwords.

When those become the focus, ANY way you use them becomes wrong & a red flag or "of the devil"...
these are neutral terms and phrases until used unbiblically.

Like "global"... the word global is a buzzword to me, but I don't automatically assert that anytime it's used in a spiritual setting that it's demonic.
We SHOULD be seeking 'global unity' within the Christian church - the issue is just 'which definition of Christianity are we referring to'?
 
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Simon_Templar

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I lead a book study at my Church. We have a mixture of people from those who are more mature to those who aren't. Also a very wide variety of backgrounds ranging from a few of us with charismatic to a couple with reformed and a few cradle episcopalians and a catholic.

We don't follow a curriculum or anything like that. The pastor selects a book that we think is good and we read it and discuss what we read.

The first book we did was knowing God by JI Packer. Very good, and very good for the people, especially those who are new to a more personal faith.
Now we are doing a book written by an evangelical about the value of liturgy. (beyond smells and bells: the wonder and power of Christian Liturgy) Its been good as well.

The value of doing books like these is in getting the perspectives and ideas of people who are worth listening to.

We could study knowing God in the bible, and we do through sermons and teachings, but the fact is that many people have a hard time understanding scripture and they either end up with a very basic, one dimensional view, or they begin to form wrong ideas because they are misunderstanding what they read.
The value of using a book by JI Packer is that Packer can put scripture in context (both of itself and its historical context as well). Packer has seen things in scripture that I have not, etc.
Through considering his ideas and his teaching, I get more understanding of scripture than I would if I simply read scripture alone.

I'm certainly not advocating that people should read books like this INSTEAD of scripture, but it is valuable to read them in addition to scripture simply for the sake of broadening our understanding.

Many people have the attitude that they don't need teachers, don't need other people because the Spirit will reveal to them personally and internally all that they need to know.

The problem with this is that it ignores a great deal of scripture, which teaches us, rather, that we as the Church need each other because The Spirit deliberately does not give all gifts to anyone person. He gives gifts to each so that we must grow together as a body.

As Paul teaches, can the eye say to the hand "I don't need you?". Yet that is the attitude many people have.

I am also very much a proponent of reading GOOD books, not just ANY books. But don't limit your definition of "good" to "that which agrees with me".
What I consider good are works that have stood the test of time and have a proven track record of orthodoxy.
This is true of some modern books like Knowing God etc, but I would ESPECIALLY recommend reading old books because there you not only get the perspective of different people, but also of a different time. This can help us over-come the foolish prejudice that most people have of regarding our time as the best and most advanced etc.

I find it ironic in a humorous way that so many Christians decry the wickedness of our time and talk about how these must be the end times because they are getting so bad.. but yet they turn around and practice a form of Christianity that basically was born in these times and regard older forms of Christianity as substandard. (this isn't meant to be a jab at your statements regarding this must be the end, it relates more to my personal experiences in my local area).
 
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Simon_Templar

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I agree
 
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Nadiine

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Agree.

But this is mainly due to their Pastors refusing to teach from any of the Old Testament.
To most newer Christians, they think the OT is obsolete & useless - like God changed into love so all that's old history.

That one I place some blame squarely on the shoulders of Pastors/teachers today. & it's why this "false love" is so prominant in the church.
 
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intricatic

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What do you suppose we should do about this inherent dialectic process? Shall we engage the dialectic to swing the balance to our side as hard as possible?
I suppose that practicing the dialectic by engaging polemic and "radical" (polar) arguments is a great way to address the problem, but it does tend to have the drawback of making the dialectic shift that much wider. The problem with dialectic methodology (in the materialistic sense) is that it isn't just about "conversation" and "dialog", it's about poles which converge on a middle area. The poles themselves are fiercely in conflict, and the middle ground need not necessarily have any relation to either pole. I'll give you an example.

Let's say you have Radical L(eftist) and Radical C(onservative). Radical L(eftist) says we should eat babies to help reduce the the global population. Radical C(onservative) says That's a horrible idea, and suggests instead that babies should be protected, since that's the opposing side of the argument, and the position most naturally taken when confronted with a radical paradigm. Who thinks either one of these Radical parties will get to define legislation exactly how they want? Nobody? Why not? The centrists are always the majority, because radical ideology, and the resultant backlash from that radical ideology (which is radical in itself) will always be less popular than a middle ground mixture of the two poles.

Now; where dialectic gets really interesting is in how "progress" works. When Radical A makes proposition A, and the antithesis to proposition A (proposition B) is made in reaction, by Radical B, whichever side screams the loudest will "tug" the dialog in that direction by impacting the most people in the center. This works two ways: In one scenario, proposition A seems like a good idea, and moves the dialog towards Radical A's position. In the second scenario, Proposition A seems like a worse idea than it's resultant antithesis in Proposition B, which results in a movement towards Radical B's position. Because of this "tug of war" game, the center will settle either further right, or further left, and make "progress" in that direction. The sheer irony is that the majority of attractive propositions are established by whichever Radical is actually making new proposals and not just reacting to a new proposal (so Radical A, in the previous scenario). This isn't always true, but it tends to be the norm. People don't like reactionary direction because it appears to be aimless and ill-defined.

So, to put that simply: the louder a person reacts to a radical position, the more fuel is put in that position's engine for progress (most of the time, anyhow). If you want to break the dialectic, you need to establish a new proposition by which to move away from the current one - but even that will only establish a new track for dialectic to occur on. Whatever shall we do? Let's see what the Bible has to say:

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
(Hebrews 12)

Well, that settles it. I don't like being consumed in fire.
 
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intricatic

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That post must be confusing.... LOL

Lemme clarify with a quote:

We are not only to renounce evil, but to manifest the truth. We tell people the world is vain; let our lives manifest that it is so. We tell them that our home is above and that all these things are transitory. Does our dwelling look like it? O to live consistent lives!
--James Hudson Taylor
 
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