Sleepovers

[eatenbylocusts]

As long as you have supervision I think that this is acceptable at times. Staying in the room with someone that you are accountable to is a good idea because then there will be less chance of someone sneaking to the other bedroom when everyone is asleep.

 

[Hope_0004]

Yeah, but if you're seriously going to "sneak off" to the next room, you're going to have problems with your choice regardless of whether or not you actually have sleepovers~

 

[Leanna]

If there is another person in the house/apartment, and you guys aren't sleeping in the same bed.... then its okay....

 

[YouthPastor]

why is it that the church has allowed the world morality into it's thinking.

In the 50's there was a song called, wake up little suzy. it is about a guy and a girl who go to the movies and they fall asleeep - when they awak it is way past curfew - they are now worried about what people are going to say.

why must we "see" how cloase we can get to the "line"

 

[Inperfected]

How close we must get to the line?

For me if I've had people stay, it is so they aren't going then coming back day after day, esp when he lives 40km away... and from my flat, it was the same, but late at night after meetings, and it was dangerous for him to drive for tiredness (and yes he has fallen asleep and crashed in the past..)

Sounds like she's talking of the same thing.

 

[Leanna]

why is it that the church has allowed the world morality into it's thinking.

In the 50's there was a song called, wake up little suzy. it is about a guy and a girl who go to the movies and they fall asleeep - when they awak it is way past curfew - they are now worried about what people are going to say.

why must we "see" how cloase we can get to the "line"

I agree!! I thought about getting into "Don't ask how far you can go, but how much can you wait on?", but I have in this forum before and I usually get treated like I am ridiculous because I say things like "no, guys and girls should not lay in the bed together" which seems so inherently obvious to me... but whatever... I always notice that the people who one month say "I can lay in the bed with my girlfriend and avoid sexual temptation" are usually the ones who 6 months later have already had sex and can't figure out what happened to their relationship with God. Gee. I wonder.

 

[YouthPastor]

How close we must get to the line?

For me if I've had people stay, it is so they aren't going then coming back day after day, esp when he lives 40km away... and from my flat, it was the same, but late at night after meetings, and it was dangerous for him to drive for tiredness (and yes he has fallen asleep and crashed in the past..)

Sounds like she's talking of the same thing.

please do not take this as an attack - I see and understand what you are saying....

However, using justification along the lines of what you said - there are lot's of thing that we could use that justification for to make something ok.

 

[Inperfected]

Hmm... Ok, i do agree there (Oh yeah, i'm not actually argueing to annoy you, or feel like people are attacking, but rather arguing my own views on it (to clear it up in my head))

Leanna i also agree with you... That's something i'm quite against now, used to i admit, even though i was arguing against it here... but honestly life's been changed a bit too much to have that any longer...

and i'm with ya when it comes to the "laying in bed thing"

 

[KristianJ]

why is it that the church has allowed the world morality into it's thinking.

At the same time though, the church can't let itself get ultra-conservative and regard everything that has even a hint of possibility of future wrong as taboo. I don't see sleepovers as an example of asking how close one can get to the line - it's IMHO far more practical and economical than staying at a hotel and being charged money for doing so. And there's the scenario when the nearest hotel's x miles away that could be raised as well...the simple fact that we need to consider is that the notion of the "sleepover" isn't as dangerous as some make out to be.

For example, what is the difference between your SO staying the night and having a family stay at your house for a night if they're passing through your town on the way to another destination? Both cases are an example of us opening our houses and providing our guests with a good example of love in action (be they followers or otherwise). The positive outcomes of such an action to me far outweigh any potential negative outcomes. It's not a sleepover in the child sense when we celebrate kid's birthdays with a party and sleepover...it's being a host to our guest and serving them in a manner that would befit our standing as children of the Most High. And part of that service is ensuring that the arrangements provide the optimum circumstances for comfort and safety.

This is not an example of worldly morality we're looking at here. The concept is fundamentally one we're exhorted to embrace in the Epistles - I'll find Bible references later.

 

[Leanna]

At the same time though, the church can't let itself get ultra-conservative and regard everything that has even a hint of possibility of future wrong as taboo. I don't see sleepovers as an example of asking how close one can get to the line - it's IMHO far more practical and economical than staying at a hotel and being charged money for doing so. And there's the scenario when the nearest hotel's x miles away that could be raised as well...the simple fact that we need to consider is that the notion of the "sleepover" isn't as dangerous as some make out to be.

For example, what is the difference between your SO staying the night and having a family stay at your house for a night if they're passing through your town on the way to another destination? Both cases are an example of us opening our houses and providing our guests with a good example of love in action (be they followers or otherwise). The positive outcomes of such an action to me far outweigh any potential negative outcomes. It's not a sleepover in the child sense when we celebrate kid's birthdays with a party and sleepover...it's being a host to our guest and serving them in a manner that would befit our standing as children of the Most High. And part of that service is ensuring that the arrangements provide the optimum circumstances for comfort and safety.

This is not an example of worldly morality we're looking at here. The concept is fundamentally one we're exhorted to embrace in the Epistles - I'll find Bible references later.

The trouble is with people keeping the line. If there is another person in the house, and you are not sleeping in the same bed then it is economical. But what happens when the person in the house suddenly goes out of town for the weekend? Then people justify it, "well its gone okay before.... its saving us money.... you can just stay anyway." And then after a couple days of this it floats into "well, you can sleep in my bed since its so much more comfortable than the couch, and you're staying in the house to save money... we just won't have sex." A hotel cost seems small to me in comparison to dealing with temptation up close and personal.

Its a spiral... so you have to set your bar high and be strict about it. My parents, for example, wouldn't let any boys go into my room when I was growing up. They could come over, and we could hang out in the computer room.... but not my bedroom because guys don't belong in girls' bedrooms. Stuff like that. They had good solid standards without being overly stuffy.

 

[KristianJ]

, when I understand where you're coming from, Leanna...but the trouble that you speak of can just as easily happen during a day visit as it could during a night time, even with the factors such as lighter and possibly more "revealing" sleepwear.

However, the scenario you are presenting is in essence hypothetical. I can't imagine the need for one to stay over at his/her SO's house for more than one night, unless there was an unforeseen circumstance that somehow sees the need for it. Thing is, it shouldn't matter whether there's nobody else in the house...conduct has to remain the same whether there's just the 2 of you or a family of 6 or so plus you. Because there's a constant overseer that all too often we can forget is there.

In the end, I guess I'm more conservative when it comes to an issue such as this - after all, my gf once stayed at my house when we were in the friendship stage (when the rest of my family except my brother were away on holidays) because we'd been to a Third Day concert and it wasn't wise to drive back to her house late at night. However I'm most certainly for keeping as high a standard of conduct as possible as to ensure that nothing turned for the worst. We can't manipulate the conveniences to suit our periodic sinful desires.

 

[Linnis]

I understand where you're coming from, .but the trouble that you speak of can just as easily happen during a day visit as it could during a night time...

When I was 18 my mother freaked because I was at a guy's house after dark(it was winter so it was like 5:30pm) and when I got home she made a HUGE deal out of it. So finally I was like "Mum, I can as easily have sex during the day as in the dark." and she realised I was right.

If one doesn't want to have sex before marriage than one should keep themselves out of any and all situations which could lead to them having sex.

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

I usually spend most weekends staying at his place - church is up that way, so it's easier.

My parents realise I'm old enough to make my own decisions about what is appropriate behaviour for B and myself - and that I have to live with whatever consequences as a result of whatever decision I make (yes they are strong Christians). His parents don't care - as long as B's happy, they don't mind WHAT he does.

It's never been a big issue for us - but that doesn't make it right for everyone else on here, of course.

As it is, I'm awaiting results of a bloodtest courtesy of a needlestick at work, so we couldn't have sex, even if we wanted to. It would be absolute LUNACY for us to have unprotected sex with my results unknown, and buying condoms is just too much temptation.

Unfortunately, that also means that for the first 3 months of our marriage, we can't have it unprotected either...

Ahh well - such is life.

Back to the topic at hand - yes I've slept over NUMEROUS times, not always in a seperate room (and once or twice in the same bed out of necessity), and we've always managed to control ourselves.

Best reason I'd say is because we've both been down the path of premature sexualised relationships before, and known the consequences - we'd both rather go without them now!

And it's only 3 weeks...

Sasch

 

[barefeetonholyground]

Hey I agree with your standards. No one could doubt yours or Jeremy's integrity because of the standards the two of you have set.

 

[YouthPastor]

At the same time though, the church can't let itself get ultra-conservative and regard everything that has even a hint of possibility of future wrong as taboo. I don't see sleepovers as an example of asking how close one can get to the line - it's IMHO far more practical and economical than staying at a hotel and being charged money for doing so. And there's the scenario when the nearest hotel's x miles away that could be raised as well...the simple fact that we need to consider is that the notion of the "sleepover" isn't as dangerous as some make out to be.

For example, what is the difference between your SO staying the night and having a family stay at your house for a night if they're passing through your town on the way to another destination? Both cases are an example of us opening our houses and providing our guests with a good example of love in action (be they followers or otherwise). The positive outcomes of such an action to me far outweigh any potential negative outcomes. It's not a sleepover in the child sense when we celebrate kid's birthdays with a party and sleepover...it's being a host to our guest and serving them in a manner that would befit our standing as children of the Most High. And part of that service is ensuring that the arrangements provide the optimum circumstances for comfort and safety.

This is not an example of worldly morality we're looking at here. The concept is fundamentally one we're exhorted to embrace in the Epistles - I'll find Bible references later.

Practical and economical. Again - that argument can be used for a guy and a girl living together.... that is practical and economical, instead of two apartments - we only need one... we can save the extra money fr our wedding etc....

What is the difference between having a family stay at your house that is passing through than staying at the house of your boyfriend/girlfriend?????

LOVE INTEREST!

Having your boyfriend/girlfriend spend the night is not quite on the same level as opening your house to someone passing through.

 

[Leanna]

, when I understand where you're coming from, Leanna...but the trouble that you speak of can just as easily happen during a day visit as it could during a night time, even with the factors such as lighter and possibly more "revealing" sleepwear.

Well I also don't think that guys and girls should be alone in a home or apartment during the day either. So there you have it. A lot of extra idle alone time does not contribute to positive growth in a dating relationship anyway.

 

[KristianJ]

Practical and economical. Again - that argument can be used for a guy and a girl living together.... that is practical and economical, instead of two apartments - we only need one... we can save the extra money fr our wedding etc....

What is the difference between having a family stay at your house that is passing through than staying at the house of your boyfriend/girlfriend?????

LOVE INTEREST!

Having your boyfriend/girlfriend spend the night is not quite on the same level as opening your house to someone passing through.

With all due respect, I don't see the difference. It all boils down to the spiritual maturity of the 2 involved. I quote Paul from 1 Corinthians:

[bible]1 Corinthians 2:14-15[/bible]

If we are spiritually mature, we should be able to reason about this and consider ALL aspects of it before we come to a God-guided decision. It is equally true that love interest is the only difference between having your SO come over just for dinner and having your minister and his family over for dinner, regardless of however many people are home.

I don't see the benefit in overzealous erring on the side of caution when the 2 people involved are sensible people who are spiritually discerning. If they're not, then I agree they need to deeply consider whether such a sitution be entered into, as should all of us. However, the spiritual couple will be able to have in mind firm principles of pure conduct to adhere to.

But in the end it's a personal, case by case decision, and we in our dating relationships need to make a God-guided decision as to what we do in all aspects of the relationship.

 

[Leanna]

It is equally true that love interest is the only difference between having your SO come over just for dinner and having your minister and his family over for dinner, regardless of however many people are home.

This is really not a good example, since any wise minister would not go to a person's home and have dinner one on one without anyone else in the home-- whether it be man or woman. Pastors have lost ministries on less than that!!

 

[KristianJ]

I'm not referring to the "alone" scenario, even though I may have implied it...sorry that I didn't make that clear earlier on. But to make it clear, the "alone" scenario is something that I'm not an advocate of.

 

[lacedinlavender]

I don't see a problem with sleeping under the same roof as long as there is supervision and strict rules. I sleep over at my boyfriend's house every Saturday, simply because we live an hour and a half apart and attend church in his town, so it is much more convenient.

I'm not going to say that the temptation isn't there sometimes, because I would be lying if I did. The fact that we are in the same house, though, doesn't make the temptation any stronger. If Joe and I were going to have premarital sex, we would find a way to do so regardless of where I was sleeping and he was sleeping.

Jen