Skepticism needs Christians

[USincognito]

Over the weekend I attended the James Randi Educational Foundation's annual conferance called The Amazing Meeting. One of the more disquieting undertones that seemed to pervade my conversations with many of the attendees was a near universal expectation of atheism on the part of other attendees. I watched a Christian friend of mine (one of the few I was aware of in attendance) almost cringe at the conversation while she, I and two other people sat around in the hotel lounge. This was after several concerns were raised about the use of the phrase "Bright" and a panel discussion was nearly dominated by disucssions of atheism rather than skepticism.

I was saddened by this turn of events because it thought it was clear amongst the vast majority of people who call themselves skeptics and who try to use the process of skepticism in everything from evaluating the claims of psychics to deciding whether to switch cell phone providers that people could be religious and a skeptic at the same time. Apparently there's still work to be done in getting this point across to my fellow skeptics.

I decided something needs to be done and instead of arguing what I find to be a dead issue I plan to recruit religious skeptics so they will be more involved in the skeptical movement. Skepticism (just like evolution) does not equate to athesim despite the fact that most vocal skeptics tend to be atheists.

Let me use what I call my 30 beliefs analogy. If you and I mantain a skeptical position on 29 issues/beliefs ranging from psychics to cryptozoology to historical revisionism to "alternative" medicine to alien abductions but we differ on one single issue - religion - who am I or anyone else for that matter to say you're not a skeptic?

I'm not asking any of you to join JREF or CSICOP or a local skeptics group, but I would hope that if you know encounter skeptics on line take some time and disucss with them issues that you feel warrent skeptical inquery be it the Bermuda Triangle, homeopathy or telekinesis. I would hope that some of you will join formal organizations as we need your numbers, your input and your alternate view on religion from the majority of members.

If you have questions about skepticism in general, particular issues the skeptical movement is concerned with or organizations please post them here are PM me.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

USincognito

This is very interesting to me, and I appreciate your open-mindedness.

I would say lack of diligent study (laziness & sloooowwww reading) makes me shy away from any such formal association. However, I certainly have a skeptical attitude towards things you mentioned: aliens, psychics... etc.


Good post.

 

[Lifesaver]

Great post, man!

I, for one, think Christianity needs more skeptics. So we're on complementary sides!

 

[davyuk]

There's a series on UK's BBC Radio 4 entitled 'Devout Sceptics' (UK spelling with a 'c'). It may be of interest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/devout_sceptics/index.shtml

 

[Outspoken]

I agree, but I do see the problem you are talking about. Atheism has taken over skeptism and made it its own.

 

[LibertyChic]

Oh what the heck. I'll join your organization. You can be the head and I'll be the treasurer

 

[Routerider]

Oh what the heck. I'll join your organization. You can be the head and I'll be the treasurer

I can bring doritos and styrofoam cups to the meetings

 

[wayfaring man]

I certainly doubt it !

Skepticism itself ( like most characteristics ) is neither good or bad .

Generally , a healthy dose of skepticism is healthful .

It's also , really a matter of who , or what , we are being skeptical of ?

Every scammer tries first to gain our trust ; but this " trust " , seldom ever turns to love - for before we can become so attached : we find that our trust was not well founded .

One of the stated characteristics of " charity " - [ unselfish love actively engaged ], is that " she " , " believes all things " <-----> 1st Cor. 13:7

Clearly , this would not mean - believes : lying slander , false accusations , hypocritical proposals , etc .

But when unabused trust leads to deep seated love , one may be free to believe " all things " , without having the slightest sense of doubt !

As in - "...We know that all things work together for good to them that love God , to them who are the called according to his purpose . " <-----> Ro. 8:28

" And all things are of God , who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ , and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation . " <-----> 2nd Cor. 5:18

Wherefore skepticisim , has it's place in the world : but within an extremely intimate relationship ( like between the saved and their Saviour ) - ( or perhaps a faithful husband & a faithful wife ), there is no longer any place for skepticism , although there may have been in the beginning .

The saying : " If you have faith , and doubt not ... all things , whatsoever you shall ask in prayer , believing , you shall receive ." <-----> Mt. 21:21+22 , is not a call for us to try and "muster" up our confidence by the sheer desire of our will ; it is a description of the absence of skepticism within a believers heart and mind with regard to the love of God given them in Christ Jesus , and the love he or she , has in return .

" We love him , because he first loved us ." <-----> 1st John 4:19

" He that spared not his own Son , but delivered him up for us all , how shall he not with him also freely give us all things ? <------> Ro. 8:32

Of course by " all things " it is meant - all things that are truly good for us : especially in the long run ; not necessarily in the short term .

wm

 

[Michali]

I agree, but I do see the problem you are talking about. Atheism has taken over skeptism and made it its own.

Actually... it has its roots in anceint Greece. It first became a part of a "religion" in Christianity, believe it or not. It was "Gnostic Christianity", an interpretation which was snuffed out by the prevailing orthodox church. When the Greek culture adopted Christianity, they did not hesitate to expound on it. Because of their efforts in inquiry, the Gnostics quickly wrapped around Christ's message, interpretting it in a (suprisingly) logical manner. They did not fear "blasphemy", and judged everything with a sober and critical eye.

 

[USincognito]

Thank you for your responses. I'm glad to see that the dominance of skeptical organizations by atheists hasn't turned believers away from adopting a skeptical attitude.

As I said in the OP you don't have to join an organization but I would encourage you all to be a little more active. Scams and credulity cost Americans tens of millions of dollars each year so there's an economic impact was well as a purely intellectual exercise in all this.

Some of the personal things you can do to inform yourself and others is use the Internet to verify claims. If your co-worker is suggesting that theraputic touch or a homopathic remedy is just what you need to get over your back ache or cold check with The National Institutes of Health to see if there's any efficacy to CAM (Complementary and Alternative Medicine) (currently the answer is no).

If you get a e-mail forwarded to you that seems to make dubious claims you can always check it out at Snopes.com. This is a surprisingly bountiful time for TV shows investigating various Urban Legends including Mythbusters on The Discovery Channel and John Stossel's recent featured 20/20 that debunked a 10 myths.

I have a rather lengthy and link filled post on e-mail and Internet bunk that I'd like to post seperately.

 

[USincognito]

Spam, Scams and the Internet

Every day our inboxes are flooded with unsolicited mail. Most are harmless, like advertisements and funny or inspirational messages. Some, however, are bogus and a waste of everyone’s time while others can actually be dangerous. I’ve listed below some of the more common examples of this type of e-mail along with resources for checking out any similar ones you might find in your inbox. It only takes a few minutes more to check on something than it does to just forward bogus mails to your entire address book.

Urban legends, Petitions and Moral Outrage:

Is there really a 10-year-old leukemia patient in Iowa who wants you to send her teddy bears? Are gang members really placing LSD and strychnine laced needles in pay phone coin returns? Is the government really trying to shut down all religious broadcasting? Will credit bureaus be able to give your information to anyone? These are the sorts of things that once made their way around in chain letters or passed along by phone. E-mail has sped up the flow of these legends enormously.

The problem is that nearly all of them are bogus. One of the best resources for checking out these sorts of mails is http://www.snopes.com There you will find all types of urban legends and one section “Inboxer Rebellion” that is specifically for bogus e-mails making the rounds. You can also check out http://www.urbanlegends.com for more.

Another very comprehensive site devoted to Chain Letters and their e-derivatives can be found at http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~watrous/chain-letters.html This site has an extensive list of links to sites discussing bogus mails, Ponzi schemes and other time wasters.

Credit Repair:

For the life of me, I cannot understand why the credit repair industry exists except for laziness and ignorance. Let’s all try and put these hucksters out of business. First, if your credit is bad, there’s nothing you can do about it. If, however, there are actual errors on your report, you can “fix” them yourself. There’s no need to waste your money to pay others to do 10 minutes of research and typing for you.

The steps are very easy.

1. Keep track of your credit.
2. Order a copy of your credit report from all three bureaus:
http://www.experian.com
http://www.transunion.com
https://www.econsumer.equifax.com/consumer/landing.ehtml
3. If you find an error, use the enclosed error report sheet or file a report on line.
4. If the bureau tells you creditor refuses to correct the error, copy the relevant portions from the Fair Credit Reporting Act, provide documentation and contact the creditor directly telling them to correct your information.
http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra.htm
5. If all else fails, the credit bureaus will allow you to insert a statement challenging the erroneous information.
The above is all the credit “fixers” are going to do for you anyway so any time you get an e-mail promising to fix your credit, delete that sucker.

Virus Alerts

We’ve all gotten the dire warning that a new computer virus is on the prowl and will do everything from erase our hard drive to give us bad breath. If you have virus protection software, and shame on you if you don’t, you’ll get some sort of notice from the software manufacturer like a pop-up or an e-mail directly from them. If you do get an unsolicited warning the best way to be “better safe than sorry” is to check the validity of the warning.

You can check sites of manufacturers McAffee http://vil.mcafee.com/hoax.asp or Symantec http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html where you will find lists of virus hoaxes as well as other bogus e-mails. The US department of Energy runs a similar page at Hoaxbusters http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/ which not only lists virus hoaxes, but is a treasure trove of information on bogus mails of all types.

Common courtesy would dictate that if you receive a potential virus hoax message, check out it’s validity and if it is a hoax, politely pass that information and the web page showing it to be a hoax to the person who sent it to you. Politely being the most important word in that sentence.

Nigerian Fee Scams

Have you ever had a stranger come up to you on the street, tell you how trustworthy you looked and asked you to cash a $15,000 check for him? He then says you can keep $1,500 for assisting him, but he needs $100 from you to write the check, which he’ll get to you “later.” Sounds like a scam in the making right? Well that’s the Nigerian scam in a nutshell. A person claiming to be holding millions of dollars needs to transfer it out of some central or west African country and somehow they picked you, Mary Jo Lutney of Ames, Iowa, to help and you’ll get a few million for doing so.

I’m surprised people fall for this stuff, but clearly they do otherwise the scam would have died a long time ago. The Post Office has a great page about the snail mail version of the scam http://www.usps.com/websites/depart/inspect/pressrel.htm which contains some other links for more information. Scambusters (another site with lots of different information on it) http://www.scambusters.org/NigerianFee.html has a snail mail version of the text these sorts of letters usually contain.

Lose Weight Now!

We’ve all gotten the advertisements for everything from Viagra, weight loss miracle pills and “herbal” Saint John’s Wort (which is odd because St. John’s Wort is an herb). There is nothing you can get over the web that you can’t get from your doctor, pharmacy or local GNC store. You won’t have to pay shipping and when a bogus health product doesn’t work, you can actually take it back for a refund. If you have a question about a particular item you can check the FDA’s Medwatch page http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/ or the National Institutes of Health’s Medline page http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginformation.html

 

[tulc]

The Amazing Randi! He's fun (a little one note but he does some good work!) I liked his books, did you read his one on faith healers?
tulc

 

[USincognito]

I've met him twice at his The Amazing Meetings. He's getting along in years and I'm concerned about who's going to take his place as the public face of skepticism for many skeptics who are "active."

 

[SolomonVII]

It is heartening to find that there are at least some athiests that realize that being religious is not synonymous with being gullible. Trusting in God only means that I have not become cynical about the meaning and purpose of life. Being skeptical, on the other hand, means I do not accept at face value the claims of of televangelist that he has recieved a message from a 100 foot Jesus.
Scam artists are of course very clever, and even the most skeptical and intelligent can get burnt by them. Caveat emptor!

 

[USincognito]

It is heartening to find that there are at least some athiests that realize that being religious is not synonymous with being gullible. Trusting in God only means that I have not become cynical about the meaning and purpose of life. Being skeptical, on the other hand, means I do not accept at face value the claims of of televangelist that he has recieved a message from a 100 foot Jesus.
Scam artists are of course very clever, and even the most skeptical and intelligent can get burnt by them. Caveat emptor!

On the contrary there are some atheist skeptics who are almost begging (well, this thread is more of a request than begging) Christians and other theists to get involved more actively in skepticism.

Its heartening to me as well that there are Christians and other theists who realize that just because they ostensibly believe in something they don't have tangible evidence of it doesn't mean they need to accept the myriad of other beliefs out there like homeopathy and other CAM, cryptozoology, psychics and spirit mediums, etc. etc.

Just because you believe there was a Snake in Eden doesn't mean you need to accept every snake oil salesman out there.

 

[Received]

Skepticism should be considered only when you comprehend the fallibility and feebleness of reason -- that is, all skeptics should be existentialists.

 

[USincognito]

Skepticism should be considered only when you comprehend the fallibility and feebleness of reason -- that is, all skeptics should be existentialists.

What exactly are the failures and feebleness of reason?

I scoff at your suggestion that all skeptics should be existentialists. I true skeptic is open to the metaphysical, but looks for a materialist explanation for the subject that is up for consideration.

As a tangent I must ask you though, do you consider such questioning such things as homeopathy, cryptozoology and alien abductions to be a "failing and feebleness" of reason?