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The Gospel.I can read and translate Hebrew so I don't need a mechanical translation to know what's behind the text. What about the Hebrew in Genesis 1 do you think is significant?
Such a post shows you have no idea how the age of the universe and the age of the earth are determined.
He did not say they were wrong, He did say not one word of Scripture could fail.many are not known until fulfilled, and even then many deny.
I agree. But it's just so hard for me I guess.
Jesus neither confirmed nor denied what they saw at all, nor did He say anything about talking to Moses or Elijah—nor does the scripture say anything about him 'chatting about the authenticity of the Torah' during that event.
Doesn't matter what was said. What matters is Jesus confirmed His word is life itself and true, and that He was here before Abraham.It was a vision that was seen by Peter, James, and John and the vision was for them and their faith—with the fact of it being on a mountain side there would have been many witnesses if it were not a vision. Let's not even get into that.
I thought truth involved fact? Why separate them?I'm not denying the authenticity of the Word of God—I just tend to separate fact from truth.
He also referred to the first man, and to the flood, so they are literal. He also talked of Abraham who we read about in Genesis. He also talked of Sodom and Gomorrah which is in Genesis, was that a fantasy town? Was Abraham a poem?He quoted 2 verses from Genesis. It doesn't mean everything written is literal fact but again, i'm completely open to it being literal fact—it just doesn't 'do anything' for me in the context.
Great, so the stars don't move as much as the sun and moon...hardly makes either metal.The firmament is specifically referencing the fixed constellations, as opposed to the 'luminaries' (planets) that aren't 'stuck' to the firmament but wander of their own accord (seemingly). The firmament is often described in the bible as a tent.
Yes, if the continents moved fast after the flood a lot of heat would have been created. How far down that goes is another matter.You can descend a couple miles in the deepest mine gold mine on earth (South Africa), the miners work in temps in excess of 150 degrees. It's hot down there even just a little ways down. Anyways, I don't think we're getting anywhere but good conversation regardless =)
Why speakest thou unto them in parables?I thought truth involved fact? Why separate them?
I'm considering taking the Literary Framework View of Genesis 1. If you're unfamiliar, this is the view that Genesis 1 is a poem or song that is using a six day framework in order to communicate truths about God and Creation, but not to be understood as six historical days. It's an argument from genre.
However before I really made a commitment to this view I wanted to try it on for size and see if it could be adequately defended. How would you challenge this view? I'll try my best in this thread to defend it.
Revelations doesn't say any of that.he will be bound now in this beginning of the first century of the seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day of God's week, for a thousand years, he will be cast into the bottomless pit....
The age of the earth is much much more than this.
Huh?The Gospel.
A cambrian layer fossil is post flood? I thought a flood was on the surface, what about rocks and fossils thousands of feet down?
You cannot distort the meaning of one day in Genesis into a long period of time, it cannot mean anything other than a 24 hour day. A distinction is made between day and night here. The sun illumininates the day and the moon, the night. Both day and night equals 24 hours. A declaration is given that the sun and moon divide the day and night and are used for the purpose on keeping time: days, months, and years. Further description is given saying the sun dominates the day and the moon dominates the night. So you cannot distort a day into some epoch of time. Also, if He created the botanicals on the third day, how could they live without the sun created on day four if a day meant thousands or millions of years -- please! This is partly why evolutionists just think it's all myth and if evolution were true, it would have to be and might as well consider the rest of the book in doubt as well.I'm considering taking the Literary Framework View of Genesis 1. If you're unfamiliar, this is the view that Genesis 1 is a poem or song that is using a six day framework in order to communicate truths about God and Creation, but not to be understood as six historical days. It's an argument from genre.
However before I really made a commitment to this view I wanted to try it on for size and see if it could be adequately defended. How would you challenge this view? I'll try my best in this thread to defend it.
The literary framework view does not consider the days to be long periods of time.You cannot distort the meaning of one day in Genesis into a long period of time, it cannot mean anything other than a 24 hour day. A distinction is made between day and night here. The sun illumininates the day and the moon, the night. Both day and night equals 24 hours. A declaration is given that the sun and moon divide the day and night and are used for the purpose on keeping time: days, months, and years. Further description is given saying the sun dominates the day and the moon dominates the night. So you cannot distort a day into some epoch of time. Also, if He created the botanicals on the third day, how could they live without the sun created on day four if a day meant thousands or millions of years -- please! This is partly why evolutionists just think it's all myth and if evolution were true, it would have to be and might as well consider the rest of the book in doubt as well.
It is given to be understood by believers.Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
No. They look like trilobites to me? How were they ruined and restored?Also don't those layers reveal a pattern of 'ruin/restoration' with brand new species suddenly appearing in each epoch? Genesis and modern man is the final 're-creation' before (gasp) the end.
No. They look like trilobites to me? How were they ruined and restored?
A change in what critters we see does not need to equal some planetary biosphere being destroyed.The earth's biosphere was destroyed and then restored, with new species of critters.
I don't think floods can explain the layers. Nor do I remember where God had a series of floods.God seems to like massive floods to make these sudden global changes. This would explain the fossil layers.
The firmament is our atmosphere which holds lots of water. Air is quite heavy compared to space. It protects us from meteors, slows them down, burns them up. Ask an astronaut how much friction is caused by our atmosphere upon the shuttle re-entry.That's a good question. Most of the time you can clearly distinguish between a 'prophetic utterance' (often preceded by "thus sayeth the Lord" "on that night x had a vision") and a general narrative (such as Peter fishing). In the case of Genesis it's not that obvious which is why I'm pretty much open to anything in that regard. If we look at the logistics, at best, Genesis was penned in some form after the Exodus of ~2150 BCE, if we believe the accounts literally, we understand that Genesis was penned at _least_ 500-600 years after the flood but most likely much more, I believe the chronology is there in the books but I don't remember it. With that being said, I am assuming that the content of at least Genesis 1 & 2 came in part through a revelation of God to Aaron in the same way that prophetic utterances occur—God could have also preserved it through oral tradition, each of those methods are quite miraculous in themselves. There are also many who claim or suggest that the Torah was heavily modified in 600 BCE while in Captivity in Babylon—Jeremiah himself seems to elude to something of this nature.
Genesis is not something I'd like to 'spiritualize away'. The torah i find to be the most complex books in the Bible and there is certainly more there than any one person can take from it in a lifetime. What I have personally gotten from it was a cosmology which helps to understand biblical prophecy in general.
But as far as I know, the "firmament" isn't firm at all and there is no 'water' above it, and underneath the earth there is no water either, it's a land mass with water on top of it—which is the opposite of what Genesis says. Let's just all be happy that our interpretations of the Genesis creation do not make or break our salvation.
The firma
The firmament is our atmosphere which holds lots of water. Air is quite heavy compared to space. It protects us from meteors, slows them down, burns them up. Ask an astronaut how much friction is caused by our atmosphere upon the shuttle re-entry.
There are undergoing aquifers of water, which were also used in adidition to rain for the flood. 30 % of the fresh water we use is underground. The ice caps hold 69% of all the fresh water ... who knows how there is underground though.The earth prior to the flood most likely had a water canopy around the entire planet which also suggests no ice caps, they came later. It's also possible that the asteroid that struck the earth happened at the time of the flood, causing poles to shift, water displacement, contributing to the flood. The environment was so perfect, that harmful UV rays did not penetrate, which in turn allowed life to live many years longer.
The formation of fossils require that the animal or carcass become instantly buried in 'mud' or some other catalyzing medium which would be expected in a big flood. Fossils don't form on the surface because the bones disintegrate. I'm not arguing for the 'gap' theory, just pointing that out.
Just ask the same question over and overIf we cannot believe God and take him at his word on the 6 day creation.how can we sincerely take him at his word at all?
How can we possibly have any hope for salvation if his word cannot be trusted to mean what it says?
But here is a question for a question.
If you choose to believe any of his word...do you believe that at the return of Jesus the heavens will roll up like a scroll ?
And if so ..“based upon an old earth theory”..how many million years will this event taken to unfold.?
......
.... as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.14The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usf from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?
The sun and stars were placed in the firmament. No way that is the atmosphere.The firma
The firmament is our atmosphere which holds lots of water.
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