Six Day Creation? No Way!

[Tree of Life]

I'm considering taking the Literary Framework View of Genesis 1. If you're unfamiliar, this is the view that Genesis 1 is a poem or song that is using a six day framework in order to communicate truths about God and Creation, but not to be understood as six historical days. It's an argument from genre.

However before I really made a commitment to this view I wanted to try it on for size and see if it could be adequately defended. How would you challenge this view? I'll try my best in this thread to defend it.

 

[Tree of Life]

The title must not been click baitey enough. I changed it to something more provocative.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

(couldn't resist)

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I'm considering taking the Literary Framework View of Genesis 1. If you're unfamiliar, this is the view that Genesis 1 is a poem or song that is using a six day framework in order to communicate truths about God and Creation, but not to be understood as six historical days. It's an argument from genre.

However before I really made a commitment to this view I wanted to try it on for size and see if it could be adequately defended. How would you challenge this view? I'll try my best in this thread to defend it.

You'll like this: Because It Had Not Rained, Meredith G. Kline Westminster Theological Journal

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Love yer "do", especially the 'key' lighting.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The physical evidence strongly indicates an old earth recently renewed on the surface (see Genesis One).

 

[Eryk]

I held the Literary Framework and Old Earth view for 15 years after my conversion. You want to know what changed my mind? The M'Cheyne Bible reading calendar. The text of Genesis came around again and again, and it wore me down, because it says what it says. I then began to read arguments supporting the Young Earth view in books and online, and the change in my view blessed my soul. It changed how I relate to the Bible. The journey to this view (really, just believing what Genesis says) did not begin with arguments supporting it. It was the Bible that did it. Well, so much for liberal German theology and using modern scientific theory as a hermeneutic.

Jeremiah 23:29 "Is not my word like fire,” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?"

 

[Pappy&Me]

A day with The Lord can be 24 hours or 1000 years. I think in Genesis the Hebrew word here is ' yoms' which if I remember correctly it means ages? Check it out and see if this is right or not. Don't know. I do know that a day can be 24 hours or 1000 years though.

 

[Symph]

I think the problem is that when you begin to see the consistent tone and way in which the bible was written (especially when you delve into the greek and hebrew) there is no indicator in the text that this is somehow being presented non-historically like everything else that follows. It doesn't really make sense for the writers to be like "Here's what happened, first this, then this, then this" and at SOME point it becomes history, but at first it was just a poem.

The other thing that kind of doesn't work for the theory is that there ARE poems and parables in the bible, and they are usually set up in similar fashions making it very clear. "The once was a man who..." Rather than telling you times and such. I mean certainly isn't a perfect rebuttal and you may have great answers for these points, but these are the reasons I just don't think it's likely, Bible is straight forward throughout it's entirety, I don't see why this one section would not follow the same trend.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think the problem is that when you begin to see the consistent tone and way in which the bible was written (especially when you delve into the greek and hebrew) there is no indicator in the text that this is somehow being presented non-historically like everything else that follows. It doesn't really make sense for the writers to be like "Here's what happened, first this, then this, then this" and at SOME point it becomes history, but at first it was just a poem.

The other thing that kind of doesn't work for the theory is that there ARE poems and parables in the bible, and they are usually set up in similar fashions making it very clear. "The once was a man who..." Rather than telling you times and such. I mean certainly isn't a perfect rebuttal and you may have great answers for these points, but these are the reasons I just don't think it's likely, Bible is straight forward throughout it's entirety, I don't see why this one section would not follow the same trend.

The flood story is a great example of an account presented literally as actual history, not allegory.

 

[Symph]

The flood story is a great example of an account presented literally as actual history, not allegory.

Yeah I mean as far as I can see, once we're passed the creation account Genesis is just a history book and it plainly presents itself as such. That's why I just find it hard to swallow that those first few chapters would be any different.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm considering taking the Literary Framework View of Genesis 1. If you're unfamiliar, this is the view that Genesis 1 is a poem or song that is using a six day framework in order to communicate truths about God and Creation, but not to be understood as six historical days. It's an argument from genre.

However before I really made a commitment to this view I wanted to try it on for size and see if it could be adequately defended. How would you challenge this view? I'll try my best in this thread to defend it.

Interesting post. You [and others] may enjoy this Hebrew study site. It is a favorite of mine

Poetry in the Hebrew Bible
Poetry in the Hebrew Bible
*snip*
As Hebrew poetry is written much differently than our own Western style of poetry, many do not recognize the poetry which can cause problems when translating or interpreting passages written in poetry.

Approximately 75% of the Hebrew Bible is poetry. All of Psalms and Proverbs are Hebrew poetry and many other books, such as the book of Genesis, are filled with poetry. The reason much of the Bible was written in poetry is that it was originally sung and stories that are sung are much easier to memorize that when simply spoken. There is much more poetry in the Bible than most realize because most people do not understand it................................

When we read Genesis chapter one we usually see only one story there, but there are actually many stories. Why don't we see these multiple stories? Because we read the Hebrew Bible from a Modern Western thinkers point of view and not from an Ancient Eastern thinkers view like the Hebrews who wrote it. The Hebrews style of writing is prolific with a style of poetry unfamiliar to most readers of the Bible. This poetry is nothing like the poetry we are used to reading today and therefore it is invisible to us........

It must be remembered that modern western thinkers view events in step logic. This is the idea that each event comes after the previous forming a series of events in a linear timeline. But, the Hebrews did not think in step logic but in block logic. This is the grouping together of similar ideas together and not in chronological order. Most people read Genesis chapter one from a step logic perspective or chronological, rather than from the block logic so prevalent in Hebrew poetry.

Now let us look at the Creation story Parallels of Genesis chapter one.................................


...........................

 

[Eryk]

It must be remembered that modern western thinkers view events in step logic. This is the idea that each event comes after the previous forming a series of events in a linear timeline. But, the Hebrews did not think in step logic but in block logic.

It's a Young Earth Creationist tradition. We are living in the year 5777 according to the Talmud and Midrash. According to these sources, the Messiah must appear by the 6,000th year from creation. The Rabbis calculated these six thousand years by basing them on the six literal days of Genesis.

​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It's a Young Earth Creationist tradition. We are living in the year 5777 according to the Talmud and Midrash. According to these sources, the Messiah must appear by the 6,000th year from creation.
The Rabbis calculated these six thousand years by basing them on the six literal days of Genesis.

Wow!! That is interesting. Since their Messiah Jesus came in the first century [they of course believe Jesus is not the one their expecting in the future], what year would that be for the 2nd coming of Jesus for the Jews? Or can that be figured out? Thanks.

Reve 19:11 And I perceived the heaven being opened and behold! A white horse and the One sitting on it being called Faithful and True. And in justice He is judging and battling.

Year 6000 - Wikipedia

According to classical Jewish sources, the Hebrew year 6000 (from nightfall of September 30, 2239 until nightfall of September 17, 2240 on the Gregorian calendar) marks the latest time for the initiation of the Messianic Age. The Talmud,[2] the Midrash,[3] and the Kabbalistic work, the Zohar,[4] state that the 'deadline' by which the Messiah must appear is 6,000 years from creation. According to tradition, the Hebrew calendar started at the time of Creation, placed at 3761 BC.[5] The current (2016/2017) Hebrew year is 5777.

The belief that the seventh millennium will correspond to the Messianic Age is founded upon a universalized application of the concept of Shabbat—the 7th day of the week—the sanctified 'day of rest'.

 

[Tree of Life]

I held the Literary Framework and Old Earth view for 15 years after my conversion. You want to know what changed my mind? The M'Cheyne Bible reading calendar. The text of Genesis came around again and again, and it wore me down, because it says what it says. I then began to read arguments supporting the Young Earth view in books and online, and the change in my view blessed my soul. It changed how I relate to the Bible. The journey to this view (really, just believing what Genesis says) did not begin with arguments supporting it. It was the Bible that did it. Well, so much for liberal German theology and using modern scientific theory as a hermeneutic.

Jeremiah 23:29 "Is not my word like fire,” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?"

I currently hold to the Regular Day View. While it is certainly the simplest reading of the text, it is not without its own exegetical problems. What would be your challenge to the Literary Framework view?

 

[Tree of Life]

A day with The Lord can be 24 hours or 1000 years. I think in Genesis the Hebrew word here is ' yoms' which if I remember correctly it means ages? Check it out and see if this is right or not. Don't know. I do know that a day can be 24 hours or 1000 years though.

Yom usually refers to a regular day.

 

[Tree of Life]

I think the problem is that when you begin to see the consistent tone and way in which the bible was written (especially when you delve into the greek and hebrew) there is no indicator in the text that this is somehow being presented non-historically like everything else that follows. It doesn't really make sense for the writers to be like "Here's what happened, first this, then this, then this" and at SOME point it becomes history, but at first it was just a poem.

There's actually several good reasons to consider Genesis 1 to be a poem. Here are just a few:

1. We have other examples in the OT of the same event being described in both poetic form and narrative form. Two examples would be the crossing of the Red Sea (followed by the song of Moses) in Exodus 14-15, and the triumph of Deborah and Barak against Jabin described in Judges 4-5. Since Genesis 1 and 2 appear to both be describing the original creation event, it's possible that one is a song and the other is a narrative.
   
   
2. There is a refrain in Genesis 1: "and it was evening and it was morning, the ______ day." Refrains in Hebrew typically signal poetry.
   
   
3. There is a lot of repetition in Genesis 1, also typically signally poetry.
   
   
4. There appears to be a framework set out in Genesis one for creation. In the first three days, the three realms of heaven, earth, and sea are created. In the next three days these three realms are populated with creatures respectively. This could very well signal poetry.

The other thing that kind of doesn't work for the theory is that there ARE poems and parables in the bible, and they are usually set up in similar fashions making it very clear. "The once was a man who..." Rather than telling you times and such. I mean certainly isn't a perfect rebuttal and you may have great answers for these points, but these are the reasons I just don't think it's likely, Bible is straight forward throughout it's entirety, I don't see why this one section would not follow the same trend.

Roughly 35% of Scripture is poetry. Many books of Scripture contain both poetry and narrative. It wouldn't be out of character for this to be occurring in Genesis 1.

 

[Eryk]

I currently hold to the Regular Day View. While it is certainly the simplest reading of the text, it is not without its own exegetical problems. What would be your challenge to the Literary Framework view?

It's too clever by half.

 

[Tree of Life]

It's too clever by half.

I'm afraid this challenge does not have enough substance for me to properly respond to. Could you elaborate?

 

[Eryk]

There appears to be a framework set out in Genesis one for creation. In the first three days, the three realms of heaven, earth, and sea are created. In the next three days these three realms are populated with creatures respectively. This could very well signal poetry.

There has to be space for objects to appear and a habitat for creatures to live. That's necessity.