• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

  • The rule regarding AI content has been updated. The rule now rules as follows:

    Be sure to credit AI when copying and pasting AI sources. Link to the site of the AI search, just like linking to an article.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lotar

Swift Eagle Justice
Feb 27, 2003
8,163
445
45
Southern California
✟34,644.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Wow, that o'riley's pub thread has over 3,000 replies!!!!

Anyways, I was wondering about the Catholic beliefs on the different types of sins, like mortal sins. I really have no clue when it come to this stuff. Isn't suicide a mortal sin? Does it mean you go to hell? What are the other types of sins? What are some passages in the bible supporting this?

Oh ya, thanks to the catholics helping me out with the predestination people. I guess we do have things in common after all. ;)
 

Wolseley

Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu
Feb 5, 2002
22,004
6,682
65
By the shores of Gitchee-Goomee
✟384,835.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Short answer: mortal sin is a serious sin which cuts you off from God. It must contain three elements to be mortal: serious content, personal knowledge of the seriousness of the content, and a willful decision to do it anyway. If any of these three is lacking, the sin is not mortal.

Venial sin is a less serious sin that strains your relationship with God but does not sever it.

As an illustrative exercise (admittedly hyperbolic, but just for the sake of explanation), let's say you decide to sleep with your next-door neighbor's 19 year old daughter, who is engaged to be married. You know you shouldn't do it, and you know it's wrong, but you do it anyway. Is this a mortal sin? Yes.

On the other hand, let's say that you're mentally-deficient, and you don't know the difference one way or the other, and she seduces you. Is this mortal sin? No, because there is an impediment that removes the stipulation of complete knowledge of the sin, which renders the sin venial.

Or let's say that Osama bin Laden shows up with a Russian submachine gun, holds it to your head and forces you to sleep with the girl. Is this a mortal sin? No, because the stipulation of complete assent of the will is missing, in that you were forced, also rendering the sin venial.

Or let's say that you decide it wouldn't be right to actually sleep with her, so all you do is stand at the window and watch her sunbathing in the back yard, entertaining naughty thoughts. You try to shake the thoughts off, but they keep coming back. Is this a mortal sin? No, because simply entertaining naughty thoughts isn't enough to constitute a mortal sin; the serious content of the sin itself is lacking.

So that's how mortal and venial sins differ. 1 John 5:16 stipulates that there are some sins that lead to death, and other sins that do not.

Catholics do not believe in "once saved, always saved". We believe you can screw up if you commit a mortal sin deliberately, and if you die with that mortal sin unconfessed, you will go to hell, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.00. Venial sin will not send you to hell, but it can make your faith walk more difficult.

Venial sin is disposed of by contrition, confession, and Mass; mortal sin can only be disposed of by sacramental confession, or "perfect contrition", which we won't bother with for the nonce. Ask me later if you're still curious. :)

Suicide is treated by the Church as a sin, but whether or not it was mortal at the moment of the act cannot be known, since the individual can no longer be asked why he did it. The Church gives the suicide the benefit of the doubt; since no one in their right mind would willingly kill themselves, the Church assumes that anyone who does was not in their right mind when they did the act, thus removing the complete assent of the will, and rendering the sin venial. After that, all that can be done is to leave the individual up to the mercy of God.
 
Upvote 0

chelcb

'Totus tuus'
Jan 11, 2003
2,013
0
55
Visit site
✟2,163.00
Great post Wols.

Or let's say that you decide it wouldn't be right to actually sleep with her, so all you do is stand at the window and watch her sunbathing in the back yard, entertaining naughty thoughts. You try to shake the thoughts off, but they keep coming back. Is this a mortal sin? No, because simply entertaining naughty thoughts isn't enough to constitute a mortal sin; the serious content of the sin itself is lacking.

And if the girl knew you were there and posed in the backyard deliberately trying to entice you, then she is guilty of being an occasion of sin, which is mortal. (Causing another to sin.) Also having a bad thought is not mortal, giving yourself over to them is.

Venial sin is disposed of by contrition, confession, and Mass; mortal sin can only be disposed of by sacramental confession, or "perfect contrition", which we won't bother with for the nonce. Ask me later if you're still curious.

And perfect contrition must be followed with confessing to a priest.

The mortal sins that one may have on their soul that the person is completely unrepentant of is what lands them in hell. Telling God, 'I did it, and I would do it again if I had the chance.'

We do say that if you don't confess a mortal sin you can go to hell, but we do not know God's mercy. We believe that God as he did with the good theif can offer his mercy to souls that have not confessed. He can offer them a final chance to ask for forgiveness but we do not teach this because this is presumption and not faith. We are presuming that God will be merciful but we can not say what is in his mind.
 
Upvote 0

sklippstein

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2002
1,451
1
Florida
Visit site
✟24,351.00
Faith
Catholic
THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS

We should not be satisfied merely to keep the commandments of God, but should always be ready to do good deeds, even when they are not commanded. The commandments of God state the minimum requirements for salvation. They should be kept not merely according to the letter, but also according to the spirit, which obliges us to strive for greater perfection.

Actual sin is any willful thought, desire, word, action or ommission forbidden by the law of God.

PRIDE Unrestrained appreciation of our own worth.
GREED Immoderate desire for earthly goods.
LUST Hankering for impure pleasures.
ANGER Inordinate desire for revenge.
GLUTTONY Unrestrained use of food and drink.
ENVY Sorrow over another's good fortune.
SLOTH Laxity in keeping the Faith and the practice of virtue, due to the effort involved.

THE FOUR SINS CRYING TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE

Willful murder (including abortion)
The sin of Sodom.
Oppression of the poor.
Defrauding laborers of their wages.
THE SIX SINS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT

Presumption of God's mercy.
Despair.
Impugning the known truth.
Envy at another's spiritual good.
Obstinacy in sin.
Final impenitence.
NINE WAYS OF BEING ACCESSORY TO ANOTHER'S SIN

By counsel.
By command.
By consent.
By provocation.
By praise or flattery.
By concealment.
By partaking.
By silence.
By defense of the ill done
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
53
✟52,095.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Yesterday at 10:48 PM Lotar said this in Post #1

Oh ya, thanks to the catholics helping me out with the predestination people.

Yeah, you know us predestination people... :rolleyes:  We're all out to devour you innocent God fearing real Christians.
 
Upvote 0

chelcb

'Totus tuus'
Jan 11, 2003
2,013
0
55
Visit site
✟2,163.00
Today at 02:18 PM sklippstein said this in Post #6

THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS

We should not be satisfied merely to keep the commandments of God, but should always be ready to do good deeds, even when they are not commanded. The commandments of God state the minimum requirements for salvation. They should be kept not merely according to the letter, but also according to the spirit, which obliges us to strive for greater perfection.

Actual sin is any willful thought, desire, word, action or ommission forbidden by the law of God.

PRIDE Unrestrained appreciation of our own worth.
GREED Immoderate desire for earthly goods.
LUST Hankering for impure pleasures.
ANGER Inordinate desire for revenge.
GLUTTONY Unrestrained use of food and drink.
ENVY Sorrow over another's good fortune.
SLOTH Laxity in keeping the Faith and the practice of virtue, due to the effort involved.

THE FOUR SINS CRYING TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE

Willful murder (including abortion)
The sin of Sodom.
Oppression of the poor.
Defrauding laborers of their wages.
THE SIX SINS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT

Presumption of God's mercy.
Despair.
Impugning the known truth.
Envy at another's spiritual good.
Obstinacy in sin.
Final impenitence.
NINE WAYS OF BEING ACCESSORY TO ANOTHER'S SIN

By counsel.
By command.
By consent.
By provocation.
By praise or flattery.
By concealment.
By partaking.
By silence.
By defense of the ill done

 

Thank you for posting this.
 
Upvote 0

ZooMom

Thanks for the memories...
Feb 5, 2002
21,387
1,010
America
✟60,193.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Today at 06:18 PM Reformationist said this in Post #7 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=695609#post695609)

Yeah, you know us predestination people... :rolleyes:  We're all out to devour you innocent God fearing real Christians.

Ref? You know we don't think of you that way. I didn't see the PreDest thread, so I don't know if it got ugly or not, but I'm sorry if you were made to feel bad. I hope you know that I regard you as a brother. :hug:

Even if you do have some wacky ideas. ;):D


The Peace of Christ be with you. :)
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
53
✟52,095.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Today at 04:07 PM ZooMom said this in Post #10

Ref? You know we don't think of you that way. I didn't see the PreDest thread, so I don't know if it got ugly or not, but I'm sorry if you were made to feel bad. I hope you know that I regard you as a brother. :hug:

I know that and most of the people on here don't deal with me as if they have a problem with me.  I was really just making light of Lotar's unusual way of referring to other Christians just because they view things differently, "the predestination people."

Even if you do have some wacky ideas. ;):D

LOL!


The Peace of Christ be with you. :)

You too.

God bless,

Don
 
Upvote 0

patriarch

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2002
533
4
Illinois
Visit site
✟1,052.00
Faith
Catholic
Wolseley, I like your illustration very much, but you go off the rails at this point:

"Or let's say that you decide it wouldn't be right to actually sleep with her, so all you do is stand at the window and watch her sunbathing in the back yard, entertaining naughty thoughts. You try to shake the thoughts off, but they keep coming back. Is this a mortal sin? No, because simply entertaining naughty thoughts isn't enough to constitute a mortal sin; the serious content of the sin itself is lacking."

Our Lord said (Mt 5:28)

"You have heard how it was said, 'You must not commit adultery.' But I say to you: If a man looks lustfully at a woman, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So here we do have serious matter, for adultery is worthy of damnation.  The fact that it is not carried out anywhere except in the person's heart does not make it any less deadly, lust itself is a deadly sin, quite apart from illicit intercourse.

So impure thoughts to which a person fully consents are deadly to his soul.


This is the position of every Catholic presentation on the topic that I have ever seen.
 
Upvote 0

Wolseley

Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu
Feb 5, 2002
22,004
6,682
65
By the shores of Gitchee-Goomee
✟384,835.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I realize the illustration is weak, patriarch, and I considered that Scripture as well, believe it or not; however, I tred to qualify it by saying that the individual was trying to shake the thoughts off, and ergo was not entirely consenting to willful fantasy. I was probably not clear enough, and the illustration was hyperbolic and poorly administered anyway. My apologies. :)

Any technical or factual error is entirely the fault of the author.

Next time, instead of lust, I'll do murder. That'll be more fun anyway. ;)
 
Upvote 0

Caedmon

kawaii
Site Supporter
Dec 18, 2001
17,359
570
R'lyeh
✟94,383.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Others
Today at 01:11 AM chelcb said this in Post #18 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=698743#post698743)

It is not a *ahem* sin to have a lustful thought but once you know that they are there and you enjoy them and keep them going, your in the land of sin, buddy boy.

I'm not sure if I'm getting my question across, so I'll be a little more explicit.

Is masturbation a sin irregardless of the presence of lustful thoughts?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.