Sinners Prayer?

If works are performed for merit, they are worthless.
Rom9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16: So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy
Works that result from gratitude are the works ordained by God.
They earn us rewards in heaven, but they don't earn us or maintain our salvation.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit and baptism of water is the same thing. It's not just water, it's the Spirit cleansing you with water as a sacrament. it's an act of God.

we know this because Jesus was water baptized, He sanctified it, and we know the Holy Spirit was there.

So I believe that baptism is how we are 'born again'. After this, it's important to follow God and repent of sin. But I don't believe that the NORMAL way of being born again is through a prayer. (although there are exceptions, for people who couldn't be baptized during life, like the thief on the cross)

Being born again isn't anything we do in an act of will, it is something God does as an act of mercy.
Being regenerated enables us to have faith & faith motivates us to be baptized.
It, like the euchrist communion is a symbolic act:
1Peter3:2 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism as we know it is not a Jewish ritual like circumcision.

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Baptism *is* a Jewish ritual . It wasn't invented by Johnny .

Circumcism is a Jewish ritual .

The same arguments that Paul applies to circumcism not saving can be used concerning water baptism .

darkshadow said:

Again baptism as we know it is not a Jewish ritual. If Christ instructed us to follow this "Jewish" ritual, we would be under the Law which we are not. Circumcision is a Jewish ritual, along with ritual washing of the hands and feet, neither of which is commanded by Christ, unlike baptism. Baptism symbolizes the death and resurrection of our Lord. As we go under the water and come back up, we are symbolically buried and rise a new creature in Christ. The Jewish baptismal was not a baptism of Christ's death and resurrection but of repentance, and cleansing not of the soul but of the body. We are Gentiles and therefore would not be under cerimonial cleansing. In fact, no one is under the Jewish cleansing laws that is in Christ. You can not apply Paul's argument of circumcision not saving can not be used concerning baptism. Baptism as stated is commanded by Christ, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." - Matthew 28:19a, he does not circumcision. "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts." - 1 Corinthians 17:19.
This is however, off topic to how the "Sinners Prayer" saves and its origin.

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"This is however, off topic to how the "Sinners Prayer" saves and its origin."

I agree. However:


"Again baptism as we know it is not a Jewish ritual."

Per Acts 17:11-"check it out":

1. The only "priesthood" on earth that was(past tense)recognized by the LORD God was the Levitcal priesthood after the order of Aaron. The Mosaic law requires ministers of the Aaronic order to be descendants of Levi, and the high priest to descend from Aaron. You had to be born into the tribe of Levi to become a priest, and you had to be a male. If you do not meet both of these requirements, you are disqualified. Another result of failure to rightly divide-the priesthood. Nowhere in Paul's epistles, Romans-Philemon, which are the doctrine for the body of Christ in this "...dispensation of the grace of God...."(Eph. 3:2), are members of the body referred to as "priests", "kings", or "a holy nation"-this has application only to Israel. The body of Christ is not a mediatorial body in this dispensation.


2. The only mediator recognized in this dispensation is the Lord Jesus Christ: "There is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus"-1 Tim. 2:5). Furthermore, his priesthood is in heaven("For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest..."-Hebrews 8:4) not earth,after the order of Melchizedek, which necessarily set aside the Levitical order. The Levitical priests were ordained of God under the Law. Their work was merely symbolic and typical of the true priestly work of the Lord Jesus Christ, our great high priest.

3. The only priesthood that will be recognized in the future on earth, during the millennial kingdom, will be from the nation of Israel-this has no reference to the Body Of Christ in this dispensation:

" And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." Exodus 19:6

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 2:5

""But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a! n holy n ation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light...." 1 Peter 2:9

"But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves." Isaiah 61:6

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:6

"And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Rev. 5:10

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." Rev. 20:6

"What was happening" when John the Baptist was baptizing?:

John's baptism was not something "new." Conversely, it was a ceremony thoroughly understood by those who read the scripture(or should have been understood-hence, the Lord Jesus Christ's piercing question to someone who should have understood: "...Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not of these things?"-John 3:10), and to whom he ministered.

Water baptism did not begin with John the Baptist. In the Holy Bible we are able to trace its development, and we discover that water baptism is a ceremonial cleansing pertaining exclusivly to the kingdom promised to the nation Israel-"....a water of separation..."(Numbers 19:9,13, 20, 21; 31:23).

In Exodus 19:5,6, at the very giving of the Mosaic Covenant, the LORD-God's purpose in giving birth to the nation Israel is revealed clearly. The LORD God's stated! purpose concerning the nation Israel is that she is to be "a kingdom of priests and an holy nation," through whom the Gentile nations will draw nigh to God, i.e., the "channel/instrument" of blessing. Isaiah refers to this::

"But YE SHALL BE NAMED THE PRIESTS OF THE LORD: MEN SHALL CALL YOU THE MINISTERS OF OUR GOD." (Isaiah 61:6).

Ultimately this will be realized during the kingdom reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, when Israel is dwelling in her land and the nations find salvation and blessing through her instrumentality. This also explains Zech. 8:23-Israel will be a nation of priests, the channel for blessings to the world:

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

All of this awaits Israel's future redemption. The "If ye will obey...then ye shall be" principle of the law assured that the "knowledge of sin" would abound. Because of Israel's failure, the nation Israel soon found herself in need of a Redeemer. Thus while the hope of Israel looked to the promised coming kingdom, the need of the nation for cleansing must first be faced.

With this background, we need to remember that of all the people/ things to be "baptized", it was the priest who stood foremost. Exodus 29 sets forth the procedure for induction into the priest's office, the "initiation rights", if you will. Two very important steps of consecration are included:

First , cleansing-a washing with water:

"And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and SHALT WASH THEM WITH WATER." (Exodus 29:4).

Second, the anointing with oil:

"Then shalt thou TAKE THE ANOINTING OIL, AND POUR IT UPON HIS HEAD, AND ANOINT HIM." (Exodus 29:7).

Just as the sons of Aaron were the priests through whom the people of Israel could approach God, so the nation Israel itself will one day be "a kingdom of priests and an holy nation," through whom the Gentiles will draw near to God (Genesis 12:1-3; 22:17,18, Isaiah 60:1-3, Zechariah 8:20-23..............). It is in this light, and in this context, that John "the Baptist" appears on the scene preaching his "...baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel" (Acts 13:24).

That is, John's "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" (Mark 1:4) was a means of national repentance and preparation to fulfil their role, their honor, as the kingdom of priests God which graciously ordained that favored nation to be. Matthew 3:1,2 is key here:

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
"And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

And how, in what manner, were they to thus prepare for this coming kingdom, this coming period referred to in Deuteronomy 11:21 as "...the days of heaven upon the earth...."?

"Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
"And WERE BAPTIZED OF HIM IN JORDAN, CONFESSING THEIR SINS." Mt. 3:5,6.

(continued)

The often heard argument:

Baptism is often seen as a replacement to circumcision. Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:1112). In that passage, he refers to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ" and "the circumcision made without hands."
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My comment:

No-Females were not circumcised(impossible!) To be a Jewish proselyte, you had to offer a sacrifice, be baptized, and be circumcised(in the OT). Baptism does not replace circumcision.

These are 2 separate issues talked about here.The key to understanding "the circumcision of Christ" is to understand that this was a spiritual circumcision at the cross. While Christ's spirit returned to the Father, God the Father "severed" Christ's soul from His Body at the cross(the physical circumcision was a severing of the flesh from the body) Christ's soul went to hell, "separated" from His physical body-"made without hands"=God the Father performing this spiritual circumcision. Likewise, when you were saved, who you were "in Adam" was severed from your body(your "soul" was separated from "the body of the sins of the flesh").

The baptism here is also a spiritual one. Baptism means to identify for the purposes of union, oneness, change in condition. This is a reference to the fact that when Christ was buried, believers were "identified" with Christ in this burial.(also note that Romans 6:3-4 states that we were baptized into Christ's death, and Galatians 3:27 states we are baptized into Christ= when Christ died, I died. When Christ was buried, I was buried. When Christ rose from the dead, I rose from the dead(Col. 2:12 "ye are risen with him")=God the Father "identified" me in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[FONT=&quot]The Lord Jesus Christ had a literal circumcision on the 8th day, as all the little Jews had, and He had the real antitypical circumcision at the cross. There the "old man" was "cut away", "severed"(circumcized), not merely symbolically,and ceremonially or typically, but in reality. And now saints of the body of Christ have in the crucified Lord Jesus Christ the real circumcision made without hands. From now on the circumcision of the unbelievers who rejected the Christ was only a concision, Philippians 3:2, a laceration.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We now have not only a complete circumcision, but also a complete baptism. We have been laid togeter with Him in the tomb through the baptism , as Col. 2:12 says literally. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]This is a reference to His baptism at Calvary-no water at Calvary.

"But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and[/FONT][FONT=&quot] be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." Mt. 20:22,23

"But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and[/FONT][FONT=&quot] be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with[/FONT][FONT=&quot]? And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized...." Mk. 10:38,39[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"But I have [/FONT][FONT=&quot]a baptism to be baptized with[/FONT][FONT=&quot]; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!' Luke 12:50[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]=the baptism of His blood at Calvary-same as Romans 6:4,. This came three yars after His water baptism. In this water baptism, He IDENTIFIED Himself with Israel and with us: Luke 12:50; Mat. 20:22,23; Mark 10:38,39; Romans 6:3,4; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]In Romans 6:3,4, Gal. 3:27, and Col. 2:12 we have the same waterless baptism INTO the crucified, buried, and risen Lord Jesus Christ. There is no imitation of the Jewish water rite, water baptism, but an IDENTIFICATION with His "blood bath" at Calvary. We have been baptized, IDENTIFIED, into His death: Romans 6:4. When we were just dead Gentile "dogs", He also gave us a quickening, and a resurrection through that special operation of God, not men, by the way of faith. Christians are now people that had a resurrection from among the dead, and this certainly was not material. We were dead, but now our life is hid with Christ in God-Col. 3:3. How anomalous is it to BURY the living! The dead are buried, not the living![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Just as sure as our circumcision was without hands, Col. 2:10-12, so also is our baptism without hands. We were quickened with the Lord Jesus Christ, and raised with Christ, but not in or through water baptism. Water baptism could not possible be a burial with the Lord Jesus Christ, for He was not buried in a liquid grave, but in rocks, and buried when dead. In contrast, the "dry baptismal" candidate is buried as soon as he has received life! That saint was raised, Col. 3:1-2, and THE SINNER "in Adam" was BURIED! Believers are not [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to be[/FONT][FONT=&quot] buried, but are most emphatically declared to [/FONT][FONT=&quot]have been buried, even those who religiously never touched a drop of water[/FONT][FONT=&quot]! It is not to happen, but it happened when he died and was buried, Romans 6:3-5. H was long ago baptized, IDENTIFIED, into Christ Jesus and into His death: Romans 6:2-5; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:10-12; Eph. 4:5. People today read baptism in the imperative mood, whereas the LORD God wrote it in the PAST TENSE. They today read it as a prerequisite, while the LORD God states it as a prerogative. They today regard it as something material, while the LORD God regards it today as spiritual. People today regard it as for the few that obey. the LORD God says He baptized, IDENTIFIED, all believers. People today want it to be done. The LORD God says He already did it 2000 years ago. The LORD God buried the dead Lord Jesus Christ. People today want to bury living Christians.The LORD God buried in rocks. People today want to bury in water. The LORD God redeemed from the curse. People today want to "dip" the saint under the element of a curse. The LORD God made us to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, people today take joy/delight in going down to the waters of death with the tadpoles. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]One Baptism - the work of the Holy Spirit that identifies, or"baptizes" the believer into the very death of Christ (see Romans 6:3-4 with Galatians 2:20; Colossians 2:11-12).

This act of the Holy Ghost (the Baptizer) baptizing the believer into the death of Christ (the "element"), and thus so identifying the believer with his Lord as to make him a member of the Body of Christ, takes place the moment one believes the gospel of the Grace of God; this is the One Baptism (and only) for today. (Note Ephesians 4:5 with 1 Corinthians 12:13). It is an operation of God, not of man (Colossians 2:11-12). Thus, we stand complete in Christ, apart from the works of men, either our own or anothers. This one baptism that identifies us with the Lord Jesus Christ as members of His Body was a part of a revelation received by the Apostle Paul, which he calls "the mystery"-- a secret that had been kept hidden in God before the foundation of the world, never made known to men of other ages. See Ephesians 3:1-10, Colossians 1:25-29.

[/FONT]

These are 2 separate issues talked about in Col. 2:10-12. Understanding "the circumcision of Christ" is to understand that this was a spiritual circumcision at the cross. While Christ's spirit returned to the Father, God the Father "severed" Christ's soul from His Body at the cross(the physical circumcision was a severing of the flesh from the body) Christ's soul went to hell, "separated" from His physical body-"made without hands"=God the Father performing this spiritual circumcision. Likewise, when you were saved, who you were "in Adam" was severed from your body-our "soul" was separated from "the body of the sins of the flesh".
[FONT=&quot]
Per the previous, te baptism here is also a spiritual one. Baptism means to identify for the purposes of union, oneness, change in condition, status, IDENTITY.. This is a reference to the fact that when Christ was buried, believers were "identified" with Christ in this burial..[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Also note that Romans 6:3-4 states that we were baptized into Christ's death, and Galatians 3:27 states we are baptized into Christ= when Christ died, I died. When Christ was buried, I was buried. When Christ rose from the dead, I rose from the dead.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Col. 2:12:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] "...ye are risen with him")=God the Father "identified" me in the death, burial, and resurrection.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Again, in this dispensation, theLORD God is now reconciling Jews and Gentiles to Himself in one body purely through faith in the completed work of the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary (1 Corinthians 15:3-4, Ephesians 2:13-18). The very instant a believer trusts the Gospel (1 Cor.15:3-4), he is "by one Spirit baptized into one body" (1 Cor.12:13) and thus "baptized into Christ" (Gal.3:27). There is no opportunity for a water ceremony here. No human rite or ceremony can consign the believer "into Christ." No, the "one baptism" (Eph.4:5) of the "one Body" is performed by "One Spirit", not by a preacher, priest. pastor...............[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The working of positional truth of being "in Christ" is this Spirit baptism. So absolutely adequate is our position in Christ by virtue of this Spirit performed baptism that we are told in Col. 2:10 "....And ye are complete in Him."[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]In Christ,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John M. Whalen[/FONT]

Rick Otto said:

Being born again isn't anything we do in an act of will, it is something God does as an act of mercy.

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yup that's why we baptize babies because we believe it's entirely a work of God.

Rick Otto said:

Yes. It seems only yesterday that Jesus was baptized by John. Time flies when your havin' good old fashioned Christian fun.

Haven't heard of the waterless baptism yet, unless you mean the one by fire:
Matt 3:11 - I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

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"waterless baptism"
(bold is my emphasis)

Where is the water? Many assumethat anytime you see the word "baptism", it automatically means water as the element.

Mt 20:22,23; Mk 10:38,39, Lk 12:50:

" But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. " Mt. 20:22,23

"And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized with shall ye be baptized". Mk 10:38,39

"And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:" Luke 12:50

And where is the water?


Baptism into Moses: 1 Cor. 10:2:

"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea..."


Notice, no water:

"dry ground" Exodus 14:16
"dry land" Exodus 14:21
"dry ground" Exodus 14:22
"dry land" Exodus 14:29


"And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea." Exodus 15:8


The word "congealed" here means, 'frozen,thickened, jelled, chrystallized'. Despite what "Hollywood" would have you believe, the waters were frozen! Thus, Ex. 15:8 explains why the Israelites passed through the Red Sea on "dry ground", "dry land".

People assume baptism means "water". . There was no water on the cross(see above). The basic idea is IDENTIFICATION for the purpose of change in condition/identity/status. Did you know that in biblical times, to dye a piece of cloth, you would "baptize" it, "overwhelm" it, "cover" it, in a vat of dye. The cloth would now have a "change in condition", a new "identity". The element was dye here. Again, looking at 1 Cor. 1):2- They were identified with Moses. Again, note Exodus 14:16, 22="dry ground", Exodus 14:29,15:19="dry land". No water! The Egyptians were wet, not the Israselites!!!!.




- Baptism of Fire: Mt. 3:11; Lk 3:16; 2 Thess.. 1:7,8


And on and on.....


You can "get dunked" until the tadpoles know your social security number, or until you look like a prune, but it will not save you in this dispensation-there one baptism today, and that is spiritual.


In Christ,
John M. Whalen

MamaZ said:

Yes.. IT is more than that.. IT is a giving of our whole life to Christ and Him alone.. NOt just some words uttered but a giving of our life over to him..

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You confuse justification with service, i.e., the proverbial "cart before the horse."

"Giving your life to Christ" is service as a son, not justfication. The issue in justification is not you/me giving the LORD God anything. The issue in justification is the Lord Jesus Christ giving His life in your place. The Biblical order is Sonship first, then service/santificatio/"our walk" of service, not vica versa, i.e., we serve because we are sons, not to become sons.

"whole life"

The only person to ever walk this earth who gave His "whole life"(service) to the LORD God was the Lord Jesus Christ. I have not, and no one on earth has.


In Christ,

John M. Whalen

JMWHALEN said:

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You confuse justification with service, i.e., the proverbial "cart before the horse."

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James 2:24 You see then that by works a man is justified and not by faith alone.

(underline is my emphasis)

"The Bible is clear about baptism being a part of salvation, and who we are baptized into. The fact still remains the immersion baptism, that is mentioned in the New Testament, is commanded by Christ. "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.." - Matthew 28:19-20a. and Peter, "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:39. When Paul is speaking of being glad he did not baptize any of them, was because the people were treating him as if he was a god, and he was glad that he had not, unintentionally, went with what they were doing. Johns baptism was of repentance, the baptism we have now is a baptism into Christ's death and resurrection. It is a baptism of forgiveness and salvation. The thread however, is about the origin of the "Sinners Prayer".-darkshadow

"...Circumcision is a Jewish ritual, along with ritual washing of the hands and feet, neither of which is commanded by Christ, unlike baptism…" -darkshadow
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
(underline/bold is my emphasis)
"is commanded by Christ…." argument

We are under the commands of the New Testament and those of the Old that Christ "reinstated". .-darkshadow

My comment: "the New testament" could not be in effect until the death of the Lord Jesus Christ:

(bold/underline is my emphasis)

"For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."


Thus, all "commands of Christ" given prior to His death, burial, and resurrection(! Cor. 15:1-4) are "Old Testament grounds", to wit:

Do you follow the Lord Jesus Christ as one under the Law? You do know, do you not, that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, up until the Lord Jesus Christ's death, is "law ground",i.e., it is a continuation of the "OT?

"Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." Mt. 23:2,3/Galatians 1:4

=observe the law!

Do you do Mt. 5:29,30?

Or how about:
"And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."

Shown yourself to a priest lately, and offer the gift that Moses commanded lately?

Do you follow the Lord Jesus Christ in circumcision(Luke 2:21)? Do you follow Him in going to the synagogue on the Sabbath day(Luke 4:16)?

Are you baptized to "fulfil all righteousness"?:

"And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness." Mt. 3:15

Baptism was part of the righteous requirements of the law-it was not optional. Baptism, contrary to what is commonly assumed and taught, was an "OT" ordinance.

Previous post-Have you sold all your possessions? The Lord Jesus Christ commanded his disciples to:

Command given: Mt. 19:21' Mk. 10:21;Luke 12:33,18:22
Command obeyed: Mt. 19:27;Mk. 10:28;Luke 5:11, 18:28; Acts 2:44-45,4:32,34
Penalty for disobedience-death-Acts 5:1-11

Do you have "...all things common...": Acts 2:44, 4:32-34, 3:6

Do you offer animal sacrifices? The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. Do you tithe over 33%(the tithe was not just 10%) of your assets(the tithe was on all your assets, not just your income) to the Levitical priesthood? The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. Do you go to Jerusalem on the feast of Pentecost, Passover, and Tabernacles?(if you are a male, this is a requirement of the Law). The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. How about the 613 commandments of the law(not just 10-there were 613). Do you keep them all?The Lord Jesus Christ taught this=His commands-. How many have you broken? The list goes on and on.

What about forgiving others? Failure to rightly divide the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15) results in confusing forgiveness in this current "dispensation of the grace of God"Eph. 3:2), with the forgiveness in the Tribulation addressed to Jews(Hebrews-Revelation). The Jews will be on "short accounts" with the LORD at this time.

This is a prime example of failure to "rightly divide the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15: comparing forgiveness prior to the cross, and prior to the setting aside of Israel(temporarily) in Acts, and prior to the "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph. 3:2), the "dispensation of God"(Col. 1:25) committed to Paul from the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ from heaven( And this includes comparing forgiveness in this dispensation with that in the Tribulation). Compare:

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness(emphasis mine-past tense)of sins" Col. 1:14

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven(emphasis mine-past tense) you all trespasses" Col. 2:13

"Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave(emphasis mine-past tense)you, so also do ye." Col. 3:13

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness(emphasis mine-past tense) of sins, according to the riches of his grace" Eph. 1:7

"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven(emphasis mine-past tense) you" Eph. 4:32.
=done deal

Compare this with the Lord Jesus Christ's dealing with Israel in "the gospels", which is a continuation of the Old Testament, until Calvary:

"Matt 6:14-15
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 "But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
(continued)

(continued)

And others:
"So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses" Mt. 18:35.

"And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses." Mk. 11:25,26.

"forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." Luke 6:37
"...if he repent, forgive him" Luke 17:3

=conditional forgiveness=law, not grace. This is "law ground."

Are you "following Jesus" here?

Again, do you follow the Lord Jesus Christ as one under the Law?

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Mt. 5:17

"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law..." Galatians 4

Again, How are you doing on these "commands of Christ"?:

-tithing approximately 33% of your net worth(not your income-the law demanded 33=% of your net worth)?(or perhaps you send in 33=% of all your net worth to TBN)
-Do you "...love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might...."(Deut 6:5, Mt. 22:37, Mark 12:30)?
- Or better yet, do you love me as yourself(Mt. 22:39, Mark 12:31)?
-Keep the Sabbath lately(Exodus 31:15, 35:2; Lev. 19:30)?
-Have you gone to any Gentiles lately(Mt. 10:5,6)?
-Have you obeyed the Lord Jesus Christ's "charge" to "...tell no man that he was the Christ"(Mt. 16:20)?
-Condemned anyone recently(Luke 6:37)?
-Ever called someone a fool(Mt. 5:22)?
-Have you brought any gifts to the altar recently(Mt. 5:24)?
-Do you travel to Jerusalem 3 times a year to keep the feasts of Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles(Exodus 23:14)?

If you/me are not obeying all of this, you, me , like everyone else who self-righteously state that " it is the Lord Jesus who we follow.", do not, and cannot , fufill his commands, nor does the LORD God expect you to in this dispensation. . The truth is, all christians " divide" the Bible(but not always "rightly", including myself), and distinguish between God's different dealings with mankind under different dispensations. Most, for example, in the most obvious example, distinguish between the OT and the NT. I showed you the proper division with regards to the forgiveness issue, for example. Most just won't obey the command to divide with regards to this issue, and thus misunderstand the cross of cross and it's finality. By "rightly dividing the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15), we can understand the "supposed" contradictions in scripture, by understanding that their are divisions in the Holy Bible. Again, anyone with a simple understanding of the Holy Bible recognizes the division placed by God between the "Old Testament" and "New Testament". Those who deny that there are divisions, are either woefully ignorant(ignorant means 'lack of knowledge', not stupid), or intentionally dishonest.



The Lord Jesus Christ taught the Law, which most apparently just fail to realize. Again, do you do everything the Lord Jesus Christ said to do in Mt., Mark, Luke, and John? ="follow Jesus"?That is "law ground", and "kingdom ground", and is not applicable for doctrine to the Body of Christ in this dispensation of the grace of God. We are told by the Lord Jesus Christ, when he appeared to the apostle Paul from heaven, that through Paul comes our doctrine for the Body of Christ, including the command of right division.


The Lord Jesus Christ taught the law, and told all his followers to observe the law.. Those who continue to teach doctrine as outlined in Matthew-John, and Hebrews-Revelation, including the doctrine of forgiveness, for example, are mixing law with grace, and confusing the prophetic program, with the Lord Jesus Christ serving as "...a minister of the circumcision...."(Rom. 15:8), with the mystery program. The Lord Jesus Christ was a Jew among the Jews, confining his ministry to the nation of Israel, and announcing Himself as their King. Israel having rejected Him, He went back to glory, and when Israel continued in their rejection, He revealed through the apostle Paul His new program/"dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph. 3:2), so that now we do not follow Him in his eartly ministry of His humility, as the Messiah of Israel, but we follow Him as the glorified One at the LORD God's right hand, and the Head of the Body. The apostle Paul, through whom the truth of this age has been revealed, not once in any of his inspired writings refers to anything that "Jesus"(his name of humiliation) said or did while upon earth, except for the cross and the resurrection. In fact, we read:

"Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." 2 Cor. 5:16

As we follow the Lord Jesus Christ today, we are commanded to obey 1 Cor. 11:1: "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." Thus, we are follow the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ, not "Jesus" after the flesh, "...Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords"(1 Timothy 6:15).

Although we can learn many spiritual applications from "the gospels", and Hebrews-Rev, our doctrine by command(not optional) from the Lord Jesus Christ is given through Paul, "the apostle of the Gentles"(Romans 11:13). You must "rightly divide the word of truth"-th! is is a command, not a suggestion.

The inevitable consequences of failure to rightly divide is confusion, mixing law with grace, the commands given to Israel under the law with the doctrine given to the Body of Christ(which was a mystery not previously revealed until given to Paul by revelation-the Body of Christ did not exist prior to Paul) through Paul in this dispensation.

The great confusion among believers is failure to rightly divide the word of truth(2 Tim. 2:15), i.e., confusing the prophetic program, which has as its core the LORD God's dealing with unbelieving Israel and the unbelieving nations under the law and the "gospel of the kingdom", and in judgement and wrath, which was "spoken about since the world began"(Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21-24), from the mystery program as revealed to the apostle Paul, which "was kept secret, hidden(in God, not the OT scriptures) since the world began (Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:5,9; Colossians 1:26):


Our command from the Lord Jesus Christ is to follow the doctrine espoused by Paul in Romans-Philemon, for these are the Lord Jesus Christ's words for today, and the Lord Jesus Christ has commanded us to follow this doctrine, for following Paul is following the Lord Jesus Christ:

"Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me." 1 Cor. 4:16
"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." 1 Cor. 11:1
" Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample." Philippians 3:17

Take Romans through Philemon out of Scripture, and you do not have Christian doctrine. NADA.

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

A Test-"commands of Christ"
By John M. Whalen
(bold is my emphasis)
(understand the sarcasm)

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46
__________________________________________________ __________________________

"Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity." 1 Timothy 2:7

"Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles." 2 Timothy 1:11


"And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also." 2 Timothy 2:2

Since, obviously, the body of Christ is being addressed in Matthew-John and the early Acts period, let us begin out test of intellectual honesty. Those who understand dispensational truth will be grading each and every answer. And there will be no "grading on the curve." Let's begin, shall we? And no "up periscope", i.e., "cheating" by "scoping"/ looking at another student's answers(such as a commentary, book, what my pastor wrote, what a "reverand" wrote, what a "priest" wrote, what a theologian with 15 titles before and after his/her name wrote, what "the church" "fathers" wrote, what "Luther, Calvin, Warfield, Spurgeon, Schofield, Finney, Wesley............................................ .......................wrote). Although this is an "open book" exam, only the Holy Bible may be used. And "feel free" to disregard 2 Timothy 2:15, at least for this test /examination since, obviously, all scripture is written for our obedience.

The first question is not "multiple choice", nor "all but two of the above", nor will any answer be accepted along the lines of "He really did not mean that literally- He was merely ONLY attempting to teach/convey a spiritual truth".

Question 1: Have you sold all your possesions? This is one of the commands of the Lord Jesus Christ- one of the "things which" He said:

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Matthew 19:21

"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth." Luke 12:32-33

("Extra credit" on this test! Please elaborate as to why you do or "do not the things" of giving alms, since, as previously mentioned, obviously the body of Christ is being addressed here-"little flock"=the body of Christ.)

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22

As stated, any answer along the lines of "He really did not mean that literally- He was merely ONLY attempting to teach/convey a spiritual truth", or, "that was before the cross and the resurrection", will be "red marked" as incorrect, and "non responsive/incomplete", for the disciples did exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ said, both before and after the death, burial, and resurrection:

"before"

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?" Matthew 19:27

"Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee." Mark 10:28

"Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee." Luke 18:28

"after"

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2:44,45

"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." Acts 3:6

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35

(PS: "Extra credit" on this test! Provide your analysis as to the merits of communism, i.e., "...all things common..." vs. "free enterprise"/"capitalism", per Acts 11:29 ,"every man according to his ability...", today. And we must "leave out

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." 1 Timothy 5:8

(since, obviously Paul had not read the previous cited scriptures. Why Paul?!)

Penalty for disobedience:death-Acts 5:1-11 per Numbers 15:29-31:


"Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them. But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him."

I expect each and every believer to "Produce your cause......bring forth your strong reasons...", as to why you do obey these "commands of Christ", or, conversely, why you "....do not do the things which I say..."(Luke 6:46). If you do obey these commands, I would at least respect your intellectual honesty, and your consistency.

As Elijah of old demanded, and I likewise demand:

"...How long halt ye between two opinions?..." (1 Kings 18:21)

And I do not expect "....And the people answered him not a word...." (1 Kings 18:21)


PS/PS:
1.You may use a pencil instead of a pen. This way, perhaps you can rethink your position, demonstrating a "...readiness of mind..."(Acts 17:11), and erase it.

2. "And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also." 2 Timothy 2:2

I encourage other "likeminded"(Philippians 2:20) teachers of right division to provide questions for this test. I am merely a substitute teacher.


In Christ,
John M. Whalen

onwingsaseagles said:

James 2:24 You see then that by works a man is justified and not by faith alone.

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____________
The old "quote any verse trick", ignoring to whom the verse is written, the context.

"...There is no God..." Psalms 14:1

"Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ." Mt. 16:20

___________________
"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. " James 1:1

Are you a member of one of the 12 tribes?

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

onwingsaseagles said:

James 2:24 You see then that by works a man is justified and not by faith alone.

Click to expand...

JMWHALEN said:

____________
The old "quote any verse trick", ignoring to whom the verse is written, the context.

"...There is no God..." Psalms 14:1

Click to expand...

The old ignore any scripture that doesn't fit your own opinion and then quote a small portion of a verse to try and prove some obscene point.

Psalms 14:1 The fool has said in his heart there is no God, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good.

Kind of like those that quote Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, and leave out the rest of the verse, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

onwingsaseagles said:

The old ignore any scripture that doesn't fit your own opinion and then quote a small portion of a verse to try and prove some obscene point.

Psalms 14:1 The fool has said in his heart there is no God, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good.

Kind of like those that quote Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, and leave out the rest of the verse, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

Click to expand...

____
Thank you for making my point.

"then quote a small portion of a verse to try and prove some obscene point."

You "quote a small portion of a verse", and leave out James 1:1, i.e., to whom is this applicable? The Jews during the Great Tribulation, where their faith will need to be demonstrated by works. Are you a member of the 12 tribes, "to try and prove some obscene point"?

All scripture is written for our learning, but not for our obedience(Romans 15:4). You fail to rightly divide the word of truth-2 Tiim. 2:15.

Per my previous posts, have you shown yourself to a priest lately?Sold all you have? Give alms? Tithe 10% of your net worth, including your 401K, value of your home......? The tithe, for eg, was a requirement of the law of Moses, which the Lord Jesus Christ taught and obeyed, and it was on everything you owned, and it was 12% if you gave cash! "Check it out" per Acts 17:11. Fess up, or stop "picking and choosing" the Holy Bible like it was some big, pious "smorgasborg", or "buffet. All Christians, whether they will admit it in print or not, divide this Holy Bible. The only issue is :how and where. This is left to another thread. For now:

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ." Ephesians 3:9
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Much of the confusion in "Christianity" stems from failure to rightly divide the word of truth(2 Tim. 2:15), mainly in not distinguishing in the divisions in the Bible, the most important being the 2 following main divisions:

The prophetic program- which is God's purpose to establish a literal, physical, earthly, Davidic, Messianic kingdom("...as the days of heaven upon the earth."-Deuteronomy 11:21), with Jesus Christ as the king of kings, ruling over the twelve apostles, who will rule over the twelve tribes of Israel, who will rule over the nations of this earth,
from



The mystery program- which is God's purpose to form a spiritual body of believers called "the Body of Christ", with Christ as the Head. This body will be perfectly "conformed to the image of His Son" and will rule and reign with Christ in the heavenly places("..made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."-Eph. 2:6) This program was revealed to the apostle Paul by the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ from heaven via progressive revelation.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Notice that the prophetic program was SPOKEN about since the world began
(Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21-24), while the mystery program was Kept SECRET, hidden since the world began (Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:5,9; Colossians 1:26).
Notice the prophetic program's focus is THE EARTH(Genesis 1:28, 9:1, 13:14-17; Deuteronomy 11:21; Isaiah 11:9; Jeremiah 23:5; Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5; Matthew 6:10), while the mystery program's focus is THE HEAVENLY PLACES
(Ephesians 1:3, 2:6 Philippians 3:20; Colossians 3:1-4).


Notice that in the prophetic program God's goal: the God of Heaven to set up the Kingdom of Heaven on earth, Christ to have preeminence.
(Deuteronomy 11:21; Daniel 2:44; Matthew 25:34), while in the mystery program God's goal: to form a spiritual body of believers perfectly conformed to the image of Christ and through whom Christ will have the preeminence in the heavenly places(Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:16).


Notice the prophetic program's central gospel is the Gospel of the Kingdom(Matthew 3:2, 4:17,23, 9:35, 24:14), while the mystery program's central gospel is the gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24; Romans 1:16-17, 3:23-25, i Cor. 15:1-4)-the "gospel of the kingdom" is not "the gospel of the grace of God".


Notice that in the prophetic program, Jesus Christ is THE KING of Israel and the whole world(Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14; Zachariah14:9,16; Matthew 2:2; John 1:49; Luke 1:31-33), while in the mystery program Jesus Christ is THE HEAD of the church, the body of Christ(Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18).


Notice in the prophetic program ISRAEL is God's chosen nation and will be given supremacy over all nations(Deuteronomy 7:6, 28:13; Isaiah 6:1-5; Matthew 10:5-10;Romans 9:6), while in the mystery program In the Body of Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile (Romans 10:12, 3:22; Galatians 3:26-28; 1Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 2:16-17).


Notice in the prophetic program redeemed Israel is to rule and reign with Christ on the earth(Isaiah 62:1-4; Ezekiel 37:21-28; Exodus 19:4-6; Revelation 5:10), while in the mystery program the Body of Christ is to rule and reign with Christ in the heavenlies(Ephesians 2:6, 14-16, 3:6, Philippians 3:20; 1Corinthians 6:3).


Notice in the prophetic program the Gentiles are to be blessed through Israel's RISE to kingdom glory(Genesis 12:1-3; Isaiah 61:6-9; Zechariah 8:13-23), while in the mystery program Gentiles are to be blessed through THE FALL of Israel(Romans 11:11,12,15; Acts 28:27-28).


Notice that in the prophetic program the chief Apostle is Peter(Matthew 16:18-19; Acts 1:15, 2:14), while in the mystery program Paul is the Apostle for this age of grace, the"dispensation of the grace of God"(Ephesians 3:1,2;Romans 11:13; 1 Timothy 2:5-7).
Notice that the prophetic program has been God's purpose FROM the foundation of the world(Matthew 25:34), while the mystery has been God's purpose from BEFORE the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4, 3:11)
.
Notice that the prophetic program has been temporarily DELAYED(Romans 9-11), while the mystery program is NOW in effect(Ephesians 3:1-11; Colossians 1:24-27).
Notice that in the prophetic program the 12 apostles were called by the Lord while He was on the earth(Matthew 10:1-4), while in the mystery program Paul was called to be an apostle from the ascended Lord(Acts 9:1ff; 1Corinthians 15:8-10). Paul was not one of the 12.


Notice in the prophetic program the number 12 is associated with Israel, while in the mystery program ONE is the number for the Body of Christ(Ephesians 4:3-4).
Notice that in the prophetic program the apostleship of the 12 was to Israel alone, and then to Israel first(Matthew 10 ff, Acts 3:25,26), while in the mystery program, Paul was commissioned as "the apostle of the Gentiles" because now the program of God is different(Romans 11:13; Ephesians 3:1-9)
.
Notice that in the prophetic program the 12 Apostles had the gospel of circumcision committed unto them to proclaim the "good news" of Israel's covenanted Kingdom and blessing(Matthew 10:6-8; Galatians 2:7,8), while in the mystery program Paul had the gospel of uncircumcision committed to him- the "good news" of God now being longsuffering towards ALL to accomplish a secret purpose(Galatians 2:7,9).


Notice that in the prophetic program we have physical and spiritual baptism(Exodus 29:1-7; Matthew 3:2-7, 28:19-20; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:32; Ezekiel 36:25-27; Matthew 3:11; Acts 1:5,8)and physical and spiritual circumcision(Genesis 17:9-14; Luke 2:21; Deuteronomy 30:6), while in the mystery program we have Spiritual baptism only(Romans 6:1-5; Ephesians 4:4; 1Corinthians 12:13;Galatians 3:26-28), and spiritual circumcision only(Colossians 2:11-13; Romans 6:1-6).


Notice that in the prophetic program Israel has to be "born again"(John 3:3-7), while in the present mystery program those "in Christ" are made a "new creature"(Ephesians 2:15, 1Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15).


Notice that under the prophetic program, The 12 Apostles, under their commission, sought to bring the nation of Israel to repentance in view of them crucifying their Christ. They indicted them for the crime but offered them the forgiveness and blessing of God so they could participate in Israel's "at hand" kingdom(Acts 3:12-26, 5:27-32), while in the mystery program, Paul, under his commission, announced that Israel had fallen and that God has temporarily set Israel's program aside and Israel's fullness and kingdom won't come until after the fullness of the Gentiles come in(Romans 11:11-25).


Notice that in the prophetic program, The 12 Apostles announced to Israel that her last days were present. They lived in the days that all the prophets from Samuel and after had foretold of(Acts 2:16-21, 3:24), while in the mystery program Paul announced that God is now long-suffering and He had set Israel and the things on her time schedule aside and that the times and seasons are not being fulfilled now in this "dispensation of grace"(Romans 11:11-25, 1Thessalonians 5:1-11; 2Thessalonians 2:1-7).


Notice that in the prophetic program Atonement is yet FUTURE(Acts 3:19; Matthew 25:31-34; Romans 11:25-27), while in the present mystery program Atonement is NOW(Romans 5:11; Colossians 2:13-14).


Notice that in the prophetic program the 12 Apostles under their commission operated on a God established distinction existing between the Jews and Gentiles(Numbers 23:9; Matthew 10:5-7, 15:21-28; Acts 3:25,26), while in the mystery program Paul under his commission declares that the "time past" distinction is now done away and the middle wall of partition is broken down, God having made both one. Now there is no difference(2 Corinthians 5:14-19, Ephesians 2:11-14).


Notice that in the prophetic program, the 12 apostles operated with the law still in view along with the rudiments of the world that it employed
(Matthew 5:17-19, 23:1-3 James 2:10, Matthew 28:20), while in the mystery program Paul is given to declare to us that God has not put us under the law, but under grace and that today He is not treating us as children under the law with the rudiments of the world
(Romans 6:14; Galatians 4:1-11; Colossians 2:8-17; Romans 7:4-6).

Notice in the prophetic program, the 12 Apostles warned Israel of the coming wrath of God on the time schedule and were prepared by the Lord to see and also go through the tribulation period Matthew 24:1-35; Acts 2:14-40, 3:19-23), while in the mystery program, Paul was given to declare the long-suffering of God, the coming of the Lord for us to gather us together unto Himself, delivering us from the wrath.(Romans 5:9, 1Thessalonians 1:10, 4:13-5:11, 2Peter 3:15,16).

Notice that in the prophetic program, the 12 Apostles during the 3 years of the Lord's earthly ministry never understood or appreciated the meaning or significance of Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection (Matthew 16:21-23; Luke 9:43-45,18:31-34). Following Christ's resurrection and the 40 day Bible seminar they had from Him they understood the necessity of Christ's suffering and the benefits received from it, as it pertained to the establishment of Israel's kingdom glory(Luke 24:25-27, 44-49, Acts 1:1-2, 2:22-36, 3:12-21, 4:8-12). In contrast, while in the mystery program to Paul God committed the full meaning and significance of the cross of Christ. He preached the cross and Christ crucified. The good news about His death, burial and resurrection - proclaiming it in all its glory as "the power of God and the wisdom of God." Also to Paul was committed the testimony concerning Christ giving Himself a ransom for all men(1Corinthians 1:18,! 23; 1Ti mothy 2:1-7; 1Corinthians 2:6-8; Ephesians 1:8-10).
Notice that in the prophetic program the 12 Apostles were commissioned in their apostleship to bring Israel's rebelliousness to a head and in doing so vindicate the outpouring of God's wrath upon that generation(Matthew 23:29-36; Luke 11:45-51), while in the mystery program Paul was commissioned to proclaim that God is now longsuffering and is extending mercy and grace to all in spite of Israel's climactic rebelliousness(Romans 11:28-36).
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Thus through these 2 programs the Lord Jesus Christ will have the preeminence both on the earth and in the heavenly places, as it is written:


"...that in all things he might have the preeminence"(Colossians 1:18)




In Christ,


John M. Whalen

onwingsaseagles said:

The old ignore any scripture that doesn't fit your own opinion and then quote a small portion of a verse to try and prove some obscene point.

Psalms 14:1 The fool has said in his heart there is no God, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good.

Kind of like those that quote Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, and leave out the rest of the verse, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

Click to expand...

________________
"no condemnation" here is a reference to judgment of our "walk", not our justification. Again, who is this written to: Believers!


The subject here is no longer Christ's work for us(justification), but the Holy Spirit's work within us(sanctification=our walk). Without the Holy Spirit within us as a law of life, there would be nothing but judgment.


In Christ,

John M. Whalen

JMWHALEN said:

____
Thank you for making my point.

"then quote a small portion of a verse to try and prove some obscene point."

You "quote a small portion of a verse", and leave out James 1:1,

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I quoted the whole verse. You can read the entire book of James and it will not change th fact that we are justified by works and not by faith alone.