sinless children

[UBERROGO]

So I was thinking the other day and thought of a good hypothetical question.

Often I hear of the fact Jesus was a sinless sacrifice. Recently I heard that children are sinless. If children are born innocent, why can't they die for our sins? Not that I am going to go try this out.

Thoughts?

 

[christianmomof3]

Babies have not yet committed sins, but they still have the sin nature in them.
They will sin as soon as they are capable of doing so.
Jesus did not have the sin nature. He was in the likeness of sin, yet without sin.
Like the brass serpent that Moses held up - it was in the likeness of a serpent, but did not have the poison.

 

[TamaraLynne]

ack!.................I can't beleive you just said that.

 

[catwoman2]

Ps. 51:5 says: I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

John 3:16 says that God loved the world that He gave his one and only Son. Children certainly are a part of the world.

Children not only have the sin nature in them but they are actively lusting, if you will, that is, want to sin.

In other words, Jesus died for children, too.

 

[QuantaCura]

You would do well to read St. Anslem's Cur Deus Homo.

Here's the basic gist (read the whole thing for the reasoning): while it was most fitting for a man to make satisfaction for his race, the sacrifice of one man, even a sinless one, was not sufficient for the entire race--it took something greater--namely a Divine person. In the hypostatic union, the perfect satisfaction--both man and God--could be offered for sin.

 

[UBERROGO]

ack!.................I can't beleive you just said that.

What?... That i wasn't going to sacrifice children and that it was a hypothetical question?

Im looking for responses from people who do not believe in origional sin. Obviously I am just going to hear everyone parrot the origional sin doctrines unless I get some people who do not believe in origional sin.

 

[TamaraLynne]

Sorry......it just made me feel sick when I thought about your question...........made me think of how they sacrificed children in the Baal religion. And I know you said you had no plans on doing it(sacrificing children) .

Sorry..........that I just contributed my emotions.

Love
Tam

 

[StTherese]

Im looking for responses from people who do not believe in origional sin. Obviously I am just going to hear everyone parrot the origional sin doctrines unless I get some people who do not believe in origional sin.

Don't all Christians believe in original sin?

 

[UBERROGO]

Don't all Christians believe in original sin?

Obvioulsly not or I wouldnt have started the thread. I know at least one person on a different forum who doesn't believe in this. She is EO and said the EO Church doesn't believe OS as well. I know alot of people believe children to be sinless (from this forum) but they arent participating apperently.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

What EO don't believe in is "original guilt". We believe in the Original Sin that brought sin into the world and brought on the Fall, and that this sin has affected all of us, especially by bringing death into the world, and has given us all a propensity to sin.

But we are not "guilty" of Adam's sin. Adam's sin is not passed down to each of us. We are guilty of our own sins, which are numerous and deadly.

The reason a "sinless" child couldn't just as well be sacrificed, is that only the God-Man, Jesus Christ, could defeat death and restore us to our full relationship to God as it was meant to be before the Fall.

I'm sure I've done a horrible job of explaining this, and I'm no theologian. If other Orthodox need to correct me, please do!

Mary

 

[alabaster jar]

Sounds like a Jewish concept--not believing in 'original sin.' Children being innocent. Makes us consider how we view children and babies, at the very least.

 

[MidnightCandel777]

Jesus was born of God, not of a man.

 

[Ewe]

I don't think it's possible for any individual to sin until/unless they can appreciate that there are other conscious beings out there. The second someone is aware that they are not alone in their ability to feel, they have the option of behaving selfishly, not loving God with everything they have, and not loving others as themselves.

To answer the question -
By the same token, until someone appreciates others' consciousness, they can't choose to be unselfish, either. Jesus was the only person to have the opportunity to choose selfishness, living for His own flesh, and reject it to let His spirit over-rule the desires that He did experience - He had a human brain which was tempted by the devil. Sinless children wouldn't atone for sins for the same reason that animals couldn't in Old Testament times: they're 'neutral'. Neither bad nor good. EDIT- They also couldn't understand and volunteer for the task.

Don't have a solid opinion about this, but it's interesting that God hated Esau before he was born and, it's specifically stated, before he had sinned (don't know the verse, sorry). Was this because God knew the sins that Esau would commit in the future? Or because even fetuses are in fact selfish too, but haven't had the opportunity to demonstrate this in any tangible 'sin'? (if sin is defined as an immoral act that has physical consequences).

 

[ScottBot]

So I was thinking the other day and thought of a good hypothetical question.

Often I hear of the fact Jesus was a sinless sacrifice. Recently I heard that children are sinless. If children are born innocent, why can't they die for our sins? Not that I am going to go try this out.

Thoughts?

A baptised infant is indeed sinless. They are cleansed of their sin nature (original sin), and cannot be culpable for committing any sin, so therefore they are what you describe. It may be why there are cultist out there who pay for baptised infants for sacrifice. Its a gruesome topic, but that is the reason for those that didn't know.

 

[ScottBot]

Jesus was born of God, not of a man.

1. Who thinks that Jesus was born of a man? He was born of a woman, conceived by the power of the Holy spirit.

 

[Oblio]

A sinless sacrifice is not sufficient by itself for our salvation. As was stated by my sister earlier, it required the God-man Jesus Christ to be man (so as to be mortal) and God (so as to conquer death). While a sinless man (anthropos) can and will die, they have no power to defeat death.

 

[jckstraw72]

whoever quoted Psalm 51 you quoted a faulty translation. it should say 5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
it says nothing about being a sinner from birth.

 

[UBERROGO]

Jesus was born of God, not of a man.

obviously

 

[DArceri]

One point I'd like to make is that children are self-centered..... We don't have to teach them bad, they already figured it out.

 

[DArceri]

Even if you conclude that babies are sinless at birth, that doesn't make them righteous in God's eyes. To be righteous you have to know who God is first don't you?