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You don't doubt. Then the man is doomed; he must be guilty. Of what? I dunno: but what does that matter. For I have no doubt.Brad'sDad said:I also don't doubt the US and Israel both have a dossier on Stevens a mile long.
Ummmm...wouldn't this be stretching it a bit. All our country did was not allow him in while they sorted all this out. He wasn't taken to court and he certainly was not thrown in the ol' Russian gulag.BobbieDog said:You don't doubt. Then the man is doomed; he must be guilty. Of what? I dunno: but what does that matter. For I have no doubt.
How like the worst of what used to happen in the USSR. I have no doubt. And there is this big dossier that the KGB hold. Clearly that man is a reactionary, an enemy of the people. We need not enquire as to the detail of his crime. The dossier, and the absence of doubt: those things, in themselves, prove this evil creature's guilt.
The parallel I'm drawing is between the citizenry of the current USA and the old USSR: as to the basis upon which they come to think of another as they do.OreGal said:Ummmm...wouldn't this be stretching it a bit. All our country did was not allow him in while they sorted all this out. He wasn't taken to court and he certainly was not thrown in the ol' Russian gulag.
I'm watching the news and see a brief photo on the news of somebody wanted in my area. An hour later, somebody claiming to be the repairman wants in to my house (even though I did not ask a repairman to visit). He looks a bit like the photo on the news. I turn him away. Hardly a huge deal. But, you'd have this guy filing a lawsuit and going on the local daytime talkshows to talk about how he was discriminated against simply because I had a reason to be suspicious.
I just think you ought to brush up on your history and, while you're at it, list all the freedoms you DO have in the U.S. and then look and see how many you would have had in the USSR. Vast difference my friend, vast difference.BobbieDog said:The parallel I'm drawing is between the citizenry of the current USA and the old USSR: as to the basis upon which they come to think of another as they do.
It is a big deal. Much of the rest of the worl believes in freedom, including freedom of travel: and here we have a dark superpower the USA, acting as the old USSR used to, denying that freedom as to travelling; where it is the dark and unaccountable exercise of state power, the arbitrary exercise of power, that is so concerning.
The USA is part of an international system: and where it is to the advantage of the USA, she will bang the drum the loudest as to rights of free access; but then, when the wind bringing her advantage changes, she will plead rights of isolation and unilateralism.
Leran how to deal with abstractions and metaphors OreGal. Dialogue become impossible when irrelevant concrete details are overemphasised.OreGal said:I just think you ought to brush up on your history and, while you're at it, list all the freedoms you DO have in the U.S. and then look and see how many you would have had in the USSR. Vast difference my friend, vast difference.
All our country did was deny entrance to somebody while they investigated him and his motives. I certainly hope they keep doing this. I only wish they had done this prior to 2001 but, if people put up this much of a fuss AFTER 9/11, twould have been impossible prior.
BobbieDog said:The USA cannot be allowed to buy its security, at the cost of the rights of others. The USA, if it wishes to remain within the international family of nations, must abide by the standards of that family.
MarkAnthony said:The BBC news.......Cat Stevens abandoned his music career to invest in Islamic extremeist and terrorism....just my op after reading his bio,
BobbieDog said:Leran how to deal with abstractions and metaphors OreGal. Dialogue become impossible when irrelevant concrete details are overemphasised.
There is no ongoing investigation. You've been watching the wrong cartoon.
The fuss and concern stems from the wieght of evidence held to by the wider world, being overwhelming: and the wieght of evidence on the other just being darkly muttered innuendo from US agencies, with some suggestion that these agencies are taking their cue from Israeli intelligence.
The USA cannot be allowed to buy its security, at the cost of the rights of others. The USA, if it wishes to remain within the international family of nations, must abide by the standards of that family.
European courts have time and again found that there is no or insufficient evidence: when they have been drawn to judicially act against a subject, at US insistence.Heroes and villains: Colin Montgomerie and Yusuf Islam
BEN JUDGE
Hero: Colin Montgomerie
Colin Montgomerie is on a high after holing the putt that won the Ryder Cup for Europe. But his career has had its ups and downs.
His relationship with the media and other golfers has always been patchy. Remarks taken from this very website in 1997 about the US Ryder Cup team led to him being forced to write personal apologies to all of them.
He hasnt fared much better with golf fans either. At the 1997 US Open, home fans urged Monty to **** off; Monty retaliated by calling one spectator a pillock. By the 1999 Ryder Cup, spectators were regularly being hauled out of the Brookline crowd and ejected from the club grounds for abusing him.
He seemed to have reached an all-time low ealier this year when his marriage broke down and he slipped down the world rankings and out of the top 50.
But then things picked up. His experience meant he was chosen by Ryder Cup captain Bernhard Langer as the European teams wild card entry, and the rest is history.
Villain: Yusuf Islam
You think he's a retired pop-singer, but the US thinks he's a villain. Well, Steven Gerogiou, Cat Stevens, Yusuf Islam, the man has so many aliases he is clearly up to no good. A fact not missed by the FBI who unceremoniously bundled him off a Washington-bound plane before sending him back across the Atlantic, "because of concerns about activities that could potentially be related to terrorism".
Mr Islam has been accused of supporting terrorism before and indeed was expelled from Israel on this basis four years ago. The allegation appears to be that he supports Hamas and, by implication, the suicide bombing of Israeli civilians.
However, as we in the UK have seen with US-based aid organisations working in Northern Ireland, what does and what doesn't constitute supporting terrorism is never that simple.
The US Treasury believes that supporting terrorism includes donating to charities such as the UK-based Interpal, designated in the US last year as a "Specially Designated Global Terrorist" organisation and whose funds in the UK were recently frozen. Funds which soon thawed out after a Charity Commission investigation found "no evidence of inappropriate activity... information available indicated that Interpal was a well-run organisation", adding that the "US Authorities were unable to provide evidence to support allegations made against Interpal".
Islam himself says "I want to make sure that people are aware that I've never knowingly supported any terrorist groups - past, present or future."
Of course, he would say that, wouldnt he? But there are undoubtedly thousands of British citizens who innocently donate to Palestinian causes in the sincere hope and belief that their donation will help in some small way to alleviate the terrible suffering in that part of the world. This does not make them terrorist sympathisers.
The danger now is summed up by Nihad Awad, executive director of the US Council on American-Islamic Relations: When internationally-respected Islamic personalities like Yusuf Islam ... are denied entry to the United States, it sends the disturbing message that even moderate and mainstream Muslims will now be treated like terrorists.
Quite.
http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=1116522004
Yea.... after he funded terrorists...he attends conventions to network.... created a childrens cd about conversion to islam which feeds the religious extremeist that are using children to kill...used the money to fund muslim orphans....contributed to nelson mandela to attract the black muslim interests....opened 5 islamic schools to support his new business with kids.rahma said:Well, let me see. Since his conversion, Yusuf Islam has:
Spoken at numerous conventions about his conversion to Islam
Recorded a number of childrens cds and spoken word albums about Islam
Raised money for orphans in Bosnia and Kosovo
Raised money for Nelson Mandela's charity
Opened 5 Islamic schools in Britain
Raised money for victims of 9/11
Gotten married and raised 5 wonderful children
Is an internationally reknowned voice for peace, and was awarded the World Social Award in 2003, recognizing his commitement to peace and charity
Wow, what an impressive bio. InshaAllah (God willing) someday i will be able to have as impressive a bio as he has.
MarkAnthony said:Yea.... after he funded terrorists...
he attends conventions to network....
created a childrens cd about conversion to islam which feeds the religious extremeist that are using children to kill...
used the money to fund muslim orphans....
contributed to nelson mandela to attract the black muslim interests....
opened 5 islamic schools to support his new business with kids.
Islamia Girls' Secondary topped the examination league table for the London borough of Brent two years in succession in 1994 and 1995. In 1999/2000 it achieved a 96% pass rate, placing it second. For the academic year 2000/01 it gained an unequalled 100% pass rate, placing it first in the borough yet again. This year the school finished second in the league table, beaten to top spot only by our Brondesbury College for Boys
donated money to 911 to bribe american authorities to look the other way
and is not internationally known for peace but rock and roll and drugs in his youth.....
Look at all the winners...he is a social honorary winner to attract the muslim money to the crowd... this is a business event not a UN event...
At the beginning there was just a good idea: The best-selling author Georg Kindel isthe founder of The World Awards and the initiative Men's World Day.
He created the WORLD AWARDS to honor men who examplify the best attributes of mankind.
Look into his eyes and you will see a blind man that does not know CHRIST-
The Prince of Peace...where is his award?......
It does appear that Cat Stevens aka Yousef Islam either knew or would have reason to know of the violent goals of Hamas.burrow_owl said:Do we know if Stevens should've known of their violent aims (it'd be easy to imagine them misrepresenting their aims and means)?
Yes I mentioned that back in post 181. Rahma does seem pretty cool for a Muslim.Firscherscherling said:Wow. How interesting. I just read the last two posts and it could't be more clear.
Some hate people based on religion no matter the good they do in the world.
Thank you Rahma for telling us about him and his good deeds. Thank you for knowing, informing and educating.
Lorena said:In 1998, Cat Stevens was the guest of honour at a Toronto fundraising dinner hosted by an organization that has since been identified by the Canadian government as a "front" for the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas.
The Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, the nation's largest Muslim charity, was also recently indicted for having ties to Hamas.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18257-2004Jul27.html
I don't know how many other charities are involved. I'm sure this is only a partial list.
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