Sincere question for Mormons

[OZBentley]

How did you come up with this hogwash? And how do you dare tell Sven what he subscribes to?



Would you mind saying that in English?

I'll have you know i'm permitted to draw conclusions about ones belief based on posts i have read from that person. If i conclude that a certain belief is "subscribed" to, i will by all means say so.

And this "Hogwash" is quite easy to conclude from the "Christian" belief that All three Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are the same God being, i know you say they aren't the same person. But to conclude that OC believe that these three Persons/beings are still the same God and yet disconnected is silly. Clarification of the understanding of the trinity is scetchy at best of times, and is still subjective to certain persons beliefs.

So for an LDS to conclude that the Trinitarian belief of the Gods of Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one God, then obviosly they created themselves, they conceived themselves, and they prayed to themselves.

You can't say that they are the same being(God) and then the next sentance say tehy are not. If they are the same then Heaven'y Father(God) created/conceived Jesus Christ. If you insist it was the Holy Ghost then The Holy Ghost(God) conceived jesus Christ(God)

So i'll conclude that God conceived God and prayed to God...

 

[OZBentley]

Matthew 1:20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1:35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

And what is your understanding of "the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the highest shall overshadow thee"

 

[Rescued One]

I'll have you know i'm permitted to draw conclusions about ones belief based on posts i have read from that person. If i conclude that a certain belief is "subscribed" to, i will by all means say so.

And this "Hogwash" is quite easy to conclude from the "Christian" belief that All three Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are the same God being, i know you say they aren't the same person. But to conclude that OC believe that these three Persons/beings are still the same God and yet disconnected is silly.

Your opinion that our belief is silly is disrespectful given that you have not disproved it by an appeal to the Bible.

Clarification of the understanding of the trinity is scetchy at best of times, and is still subjective to certain persons beliefs.

So for an LDS to conclude that the Trinitarian belief of the Gods of Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one God, then obviosly they created themselves, they conceived themselves, and they prayed to themselves.

Excuse me! You don't understand trinitarian belief and confuse it with modalism. Furthermore, neither trinitarians nor modalists believe that God is a created being.

God is not "they."

You can't say that they are the same being(God) and then the next sentance say tehy are not. If they are the same then Heaven'y Father(God) created/conceived Jesus Christ.

Heavenly Father doesn't create gods.

[Bible]Isaiah 43:10-11[/Bible]
[Bible]John 1:1[/Bible]

If you insist it was the Holy Ghost then The Holy Ghost(God) conceived jesus Christ(God)

That which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost does not have "a thousand and one body parts." The Holy Ghost is God. Jesus is God and Jesus is the Son of God.
[Bible]John 1:1[/Bible]

So i'll conclude that God conceived God and prayed to God...

Yes, God the Son prayed to God the Father. He also was sent by the Father and He said He would send the Comforter.

But you cannot conclude that Sven is a modalist. His icon says he is a trinitarian and you ought to respect that.

 

[Ran77]

Cool, you found some verses for me. Thanks.

Matthew 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

I think this verse is the one that most strongly supports your assertion - or if not an assertion by you the one I am forced to assume you are supporting; because you have only posted verses with no commentary. Am I free to apply any explanation I want to the verses and claim that is what you are proposing here? If not, you might want to include some sort of comments in the future.

This verse states that what is conceived is of the Holy Ghost. One interpretation of that could understandably be that the Holy Ghost impregnated Mary. Another understanding could be that Mary is being told that the child within her is of the spirit and sanctioned by God. What is great about the Four Gospels is that we get a variety of input on each topic and through them can get a more accurate understanding of what the authors really meant. (Similar to how use of the BoM with the Bible allows the LDS to have a better understanding of the principles that Heavenly Father wanted us to know.)

Let's see what the other verses have to say.

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Here we can see that the Holy Ghost is involved, but not in what I see as the method of conception for Mary. The Holy Ghost came upon many people (Moses for one) in order for the mortal to be able to survive an encounter with God. In this verse I see the Holy Ghost preparing Mary for the "overshadowing" that was to come from God. I find the term "overshadow" an interesting one. Why is it used here?

The verse uses the term Son of God. As I presented earlier - if Mary conceived by means of the Holy Ghost, why isn't Christ the Son of the Holy Ghost?

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

And this states it very clearly; Christ was begotten of the Father. There is no mincing of words here.


Put all of these verse together and we have the Holy Ghost preparing the mortal Mary so that she can survive the power of God. Then Heavenly Father caused Mary to become pregnant with His literal offspring - thus giving Christ the twin bloodlines of mortal and deity which was essential for His mission as the Savior.

 

[Deren]

And that was the evasive answer that I expected from you. Now, I will go back to ignoring you.

Like you were actually saying something to begin with.

 

[Deren]

We don't believe God has "eternal sex" in order to "spiritually procreate".

WE DON'T? Forget it then...I quit.

4g, what exactly is "spiritual procreation," and how does that apply to Jesus' physical siring?

 

[Deren]

Well, would you conclude that since you hace a Christian symbol that you believe that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one?

Then you subscribe to the idea that Jesus Christ was conceived from Himself, as the Holy Ghost, Who was also the Father, acting as the Holy Ghost at the time, because they are all connected as being God.

No, as Christians we would not subscribe to such an idea.

So we may be also correct in concluding that Heavenly Father parented Christ in the Flesh, because He is God, but he was acting as the Holy Ghost at the time who is also God.? sort of like the head doesn't know what the right foot is doing... since your God theory has them all as one, Heavenly Father is the Head, Christ is the hands and the Holy Ghost is the feet, but yet they are one body.

Christians are not modalists, though. So your convoluted attempt to try and make them modalists only serves to show that you don't understand Trinitarian theology.

oh wait, since the Bible says Christ was conceived by the Holy Ghost, maybe Heavenly Father used his position in the "God circle of three(aka trinity)" to send the Holy Ghost to do it(which is Himself as God)...?

Cute. But you still didn't answer Sven's question. Why not?

Sven:

So... would you say that Jesus Christ was conceived of the Holy Ghost as indicated in the Bible (Luke 1:35 and Matthew 1:18) or do you believe that some other method was utilized?

 

[Deren]

I'll have you know i'm permitted to draw conclusions about ones belief based on posts i have read from that person. If i conclude that a certain belief is "subscribed" to, i will by all means say so.

Yet, unless you provide the reference to where you're coming up with this, then you're in violation of the rules. So, either provide the preference, or cease the libel.

And this "Hogwash" is quite easy to conclude from the "Christian" belief that All three Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are the same God being, i know you say they aren't the same person. But to conclude that OC believe that these three Persons/beings are still the same God and yet disconnected is silly. Clarification of the understanding of the trinity is scetchy at best of times, and is still subjective to certain persons beliefs.

If it's so easy, then you better be for providing the references.

So for an LDS to conclude that the Trinitarian belief of the Gods of Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one God, then obviosly they created themselves, they conceived themselves, and they prayed to themselves.

Reference please. This will be the last post where I will be asking for them.

You can't say that they are the same being(God) and then the next sentance say tehy are not. If they are the same then Heaven'y Father(God) created/conceived Jesus Christ. If you insist it was the Holy Ghost then The Holy Ghost(God) conceived jesus Christ(God)

So i'll conclude that God conceived God and prayed to God...

And you still haven't answered Sven's question. Why not?

 

[fatboys]

Yet, unless you provide the reference to where you're coming up with this, then you're in violation of the rules. So, either provide the preference, or cease the libel.

You guys are too funny. Do you know how hard it is to understand what you actually believe about the character of God? And you should know the best about the rules on this board.

Reference please. This will be the last post where I will be asking for them.



And you still haven't answered Sven's question. Why not?

Let us pray

 

[OZBentley]

You guys are too funny. Do you know how hard it is to understand what you actually believe about the character of God? And you should know the best about the rules on this board.







Let us pray

Don't hold your breath....

 

[OZBentley]

Well, would you conclude that since you hace a Christian symbol that you believe that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one?

Then you subscribe to the idea that Jesus Christ was conceived from Himself, as the Holy Ghost, Who was also the Father, acting as the Holy Ghost at the time, because they are all connected as being God.

No, as Christians we would not subscribe to such an idea.

You don't believe that?

So is this what you believe then?

How do you relate the conception of the Son by the Holy Ghost to that belief?

Christians are not modalists, though. So your convoluted attempt to try and make them modalists only serves to show that you don't understand Trinitarian theology.

are you confused here? are you saying Modalists are not Christian?

In Christianity, Sabellianism (also known as modalism) is the second-century belief that the three persons of the Trinity are merely different modes or aspects of God, rather than three distinct persons.

Cute. But you still didn't answer Sven's question. Why not?

Sven:

So... would you say that Jesus Christ was conceived of the Holy Ghost as indicated in the Bible (Luke 1:35 and Matthew 1:18) or do you believe that some other method was utilized?

Sven's question was directed to Ran, whom he was responding to. re-read the thread Dern.

 

[Deren]

You don't believe that?

So is this what you believe then?

You've got it ace!

How do you relate the conception of the Son by the Holy Ghost to that belief?

What do you mean?

are you confused here? are you saying Modalists are not Christian?

I'm not confused. I'm saying that Christians do not ascribe to a modalist form of theology, which is deemed as a heresy, when it comes to the Trinity.

 

[OZBentley]

You've got it ace!



What do you mean?



I'm not confused. I'm saying that Christians do not ascribe to a modalist form of theology, which is deemed as a heresy, when it comes to the Trinity.

But Modalists are considered Christian. whether or not it has anything to do with the trinity has little to do with it.

I want to know what your explanation of the creation of Christ from the Holy Ghost is? so i can relate it towards your belief, now that you have confirmed what it is.

 

[RufustheRed]

I am pretty sure it would have been during the summer months. The gist was that you don't like my sarcasm because it is rude and I countered that you are rude in some of your posts too. When I pointed several of them out to you - you accused me of stalking you. Since then I have left you alone as you wished.

No need to be sorry about it. We don't get along. Agreeing to keep to ourselves seems to be a pretty civilized way of dealing with it.

Thanks for your response. I remember the "*** for tat" about the sarcasm issue, but accusing you of stalking me? Really? How can anyone stalk someone on the internet?

Anyway, if believe that we can't get along, so be it. Ta Ta!

Sven

 

[RufustheRed]

I remember this.

Do you have a copy of the post? I'd really like to see it.

Thanks

Sven

 

[RufustheRed]

I decided to answer your post afterall. I still think it is best that we keep to ourselves though.

So what is this? A jab at getting in the final word? You post some provocative statements and then say we shouldn't post to each other. Okay. If that's how you want to play this little game.

Sven

 

[Apex]

Do you have a copy of the post? I'd really like to see it.

Thanks

Sven

I never thought I would need to present it for evidence. So no.

 

[RufustheRed]

Well, would you conclude that since you hace a Christian symbol that you believe that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one?

Then you subscribe to the idea that Jesus Christ was conceived from Himself, as the Holy Ghost, Who was also the Father, acting as the Holy Ghost at the time, because they are all connected as being God.

So we may be also correct in concluding that Heavenly Father parented Christ in the Flesh, because He is God, but he was acting as the Holy Ghost at the time who is also God.? sort of like the head doesn't know what the right foot is doing... since your God theory has them all as one, Heavenly Father is the Head, Christ is the hands and the Holy Ghost is the feet, but yet they are one body.

oh wait, since the Bible says Christ was conceived by the Holy Ghost, maybe Heavenly Father used his position in the "God circle of three(aka trinity)" to send the Holy Ghost to do it(which is Himself as God)...?

Wow! Who peed in your corn flakes? I hope it wasn't my simple question about the virginity of Mary. If that sets you off, I can only imagine how you react when someone tells you what you believe - Like you did with me.

Now, are you sure that you have all of my beliefs capulized correctly? If you want to discuss the Trinity, I suggest that you post to the thread about the Trinity. Also, you probably should do a little more research about the Trinity before you spout off about what I believe.

Have a great evening, I am.

Sven

 

[RufustheRed]

Don't hold your breath....

Please do!

 

[Ran77]

So what is this? A jab at getting in the final word? You post some provocative statements and then say we shouldn't post to each other. Okay. If that's how you want to play this little game.

I'm sorry, I won't post to you again. Well, not again, after this apology. And please go ahead and respond to this so you can have the satisfaction of having had the last word.