Sin

[dreadnought]

I dont think anyone does that! Certainly not people who belong to Christ...

messing up occasionally and sinning - losing patience, not feeling charitable toward a brother etc. - is not the same as sitting around sinning for pleasure..

The problem lies when people start saying that we can and should be living sinless or we aren't Christian. The response is in the truth - and we speak the truth, sinless perfection is not scriptural. This way people are not terrified of going to hell for messing up because someone filled their heads full of untruths.

There are some who seem to think that there is no reason to fight the temptation to sin. They think it's all about grace.

 

[Hazelelponi]

There are some who seem to think that there is no reason to fight the temptation to sin. They think it's all about grace.

Without Grace we have no forgiveness for sin. Without chastisement we have less motivation for avoiding sin.

The two work hand in hand, and there are times we need to understand one more than the other, feel one more than the other.

Key to giving helpful advice is discernment about which one someone needs to hear more of at any given moment or situation.

There are times I needed Grace, forgiveness and to hear how much I was loved... times desperation of it drove me to my knees in tears begging His help..

and other times i needed the slap. The 'hey hey hey.... what on earth do you think your doing?'

they balance one another.. they are not opposed to each other.. and both types of verses exist for that very reason; to keep us on that narrow path..

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It is true that if I sin against you, I bring trouble into your life, but I also bring trouble into my own life. If I want to be at peace, I need to stop sinning.

I guess for you they is main if not only point, that you bring peace into your life. You don’t see that your pursuit if your own happiness as a world view causes you to think of you alone.

 

[justbyfaith]

I dont think anyone does that! Certainly not people who belong to Christ...

messing up occasionally and sinning - losing patience, not feeling charitable toward a brother etc. - is not the same as sitting around sinning for pleasure..

The problem lies when people start saying that we can and should be living sinless or we aren't Christian. The response is in the truth - and we speak the truth, sinless perfection is not scriptural. This way people are not terrified of going to hell for messing up because someone filled their heads full of untruths.

The doctrine of sinless perfection (entire sanctification) is useful to some degree, as long as you graduate to faith in Christ. The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ. The doctrine of entire sanctification, impaho, is the New Testament's way of preaching the law for this purpose.

 

[justbyfaith]

There are some who seem to think that there is no reason to fight the temptation to sin. They think it's all about grace.

When you are truly a recipient of grace you don't even want to sin. So it is all about grace.

 

[dreadnought]

I guess for you they is main if not only point, that you bring peace into your life. You don’t see that your pursuit if your own happiness as a world view causes you to think of you alone.

I'm just pointing out that if you sin, you will bring unhappiness to yourself.

 

[dreadnought]

When you are truly a recipient of grace you don't even want to sin. So it is all about grace.

Satan will continue to tempt you to sin.

 

[justbyfaith]

Satan will continue to tempt you to sin.

A man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed.

Also, the devil uses the law to bring temptation (Romans 7:7-13). Understanding that I am forgiven and that I am not under the law has proven to be a reason why the law has not been able to do this in my life more recently.

I do not want to give glory to the devil or give him any kind of power in my life in my words.

I have victory over sin in the understanding that I am completely forgiven of past, present, and future sin. As the result of this, the devil knows that he cannot heap condemnation on me if I do sin. Also, the wet paint principle does not have the effect on me that it used to. I wrote the following at a time when I was still in bondage to certain besetting sins, as a mental exercise to understanding what might be my key to victory; and I found that in understanding and repeating the principles to my mind, I began to have the victory. Will post the link shortly.

 

[justbyfaith]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...paint-principle-the-complete-version.8043488/

 

[Oldmantook]

When you are truly a recipient of grace you don't even want to sin. So it is all about grace.

Grace is there but "you don't even want to sin" is not true of all believers. Did those in the Corinthian church "not want to sin" as the Apostle Paul berated them for their sins. Did Ananias & Sapphira not want to sin when they conspired to lie against the Holy Spirit. Your premise does not hold up under the scrutiny of Scripture.

 

[Soyeong]

Hi @Soyeong,

(long time no see, and welcome back!)

Hello, thanks! It was taking a break, it is good to be back and see familiar faces, sorry about the delay in my response.

How do I repent of not wearing tzitzit? I do not have access to any kind of shop that sells garments that have tzitzit attached to them; and if I did, I'm not sure I would want to wear those garments everywhere and every day (since I am not Jewish and I feel that it might be a lie to testify that I am Jewish in such a manner). I would also have to purchase enough outfits to last until my next laundry day every cycle.

I also don't have a chofar to blow every new moon; something else that the Mosaic law requires.

It seems to me that the Mosaic law is impossible to keep.

Starting my car on the sabbath day is a violation of Torah, it is kindling a fire. That would mean that I cannot travel anywhere on Saturdays, except by walking.

And even with that, scribes and Pharisees in Jesus' day interpreted the sabbath laws to mean that I could not walk more than one mile on the sabbath. So much for going with the Roman soldier twain when he forced you to go one mile. One could not keep Jesus' commandment to go the extra mile and keep the sabbath if it was on that particular day that one was forced to go a mile. Which one is more important? Jesus' commandment? Or Moses'?

When the Israelites were in exile in Babylon, the condition for their return was to repent and return to obedience to His Law, which required them to have access to a temple that they didn't have access to while they were in exile. So I believe that God honors it when we are faithful to do the the things that we can do and does not hold us accountable for when the condition for obeying them is not met. In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commands, obedience to God's instructions has always been about searching out ways that we can delight in getting to express our love for Him and our faith in Him to guide us. So it is important to have the right heart when approaching the issue of studying God's commands and how they apply and whether it applies to us today. My rabbi will tell anyone who asks him about whether they should be obeying a certain command to go home and pray about it, which can seem like cop out, but really need to be guided by the Spirit in how to obey God's Law.

Tallits can be purchased online, though it is debatable whether you need a specific kind of garment in order to attach tzitzit to. The shofar is also something that can also be purchased online, though blowing it on the New Moon is associated with the offerings, which should only be made at the temple with a Levitical priesthood. The prohibition of kindling a fire is in regard to using it for cooking, so the intention was not to lead us to leave lights on the whole Sabbath or to leave our cars running if we want to use them. Likewise, keeping the Sabbath about making time to focus on God's love for us, not about spending the day focused on making sure that we don't walk too far or lift too much.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

I'm thinking of Christians who claim that we don't have to worry about sin because the Lord has taken care of that.

https://www.gotquestions.org/cheap-grace.html

 

[dreadnought]

A man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed.

Also, the devil uses the law to bring temptation (Romans 7:7-13). Understanding that I am forgiven and that I am not under the law has proven to be a reason why the law has not been able to do this in my life more recently.

I do not want to give glory to the devil or give him any kind of power in my life in my words.

I have victory over sin in the understanding that I am completely forgiven of past, present, and future sin. As the result of this, the devil knows that he cannot heap condemnation on me if I do sin. Also, the wet paint principle does not have the effect on me that it used to. I wrote the following at a time when I was still in bondage to certain besetting sins, as a mental exercise to understanding what might be my key to victory; and I found that in understanding and repeating the principles to my mind, I began to have the victory. Will post the link shortly.

Satan will do what he can to lure you away from the Lord.

 

[justbyfaith]

Grace is there but "you don't even want to sin" is not true of all believers. Did those in the Corinthian church "not want to sin" as the Apostle Paul berated them for their sins. Did Ananias & Sapphira not want to sin when they conspired to lie against the Holy Spirit. Your premise does not hold up under the scrutiny of Scripture.

In Corinth, the true believers were the ones who had been washed, sanctified, and justified (1 Corinthians 6:9-11). Of course there was another element/group in that church that were Christians in name only.

Those who are truly born again do the will of the Father as the result (Matthew 7:21-23). I'm not sure Ananias ans Saphirra went to heaven when they died; it doesn't say anywhere in scripture that they went there, or that they were even genuine believers according to Matthew 7:21-23.

The limited scripture that you have brought forth to "scrutinize" my view does not in fact refute it.

In fact, I find that the scripture substantiates my view more than any evidence there might be to attempt to show it to be wrong.

 

[justbyfaith]

Satan will do what he can to lure you away from the Lord.

 

[dreadnought]

Glory be to the devil!

That is a strange thing to say.

 

[justbyfaith]

https://www.gotquestions.org/cheap-grace.html

Salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves; it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

Lordship salvation; and making no distinction between salvation and discipleship: has the effect of translating into salvation by works.

Truly, if one is born again, he or she will be radically changed in their heart so that they will begin to serve the Lord and bear the fruit of the Spirit.

But it is important not to put the cart before the horse. Forgiveness is free from the beginning of our salvation to the end of it. Because we are forgiven much, we will love Him much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5; Ephesians 3:19 w/ 1 John 4:8,16) and this love will be in deed and in truth (1 John 3:18) and will be the fulfilling of the law's righteousness within us (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4).

However we are not saved because we love the Lord and other people; rather we love God and people because we are saved.

The entering in (as well as the continuation of our faith) is at the place of believing that Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

 

[Oldmantook]

In Corinth, the true believers were the ones who had been washed, sanctified, and justified (1 Corinthians 6:9-11). Of course there was another element/group in that church that were Christians in name only.

In name only? Where is that term used in reference to the Corinthian church? Paul admonishes them not because they were really unbelievers but because they were believers who were sinning. Why would Paul waste his time addressing unbelievers who can only choose to sin since they are not redeemed? Your logic does no make sense.

Those who are truly born again do the will of the Father as the result (Matthew 7:21-23). I'm not sure Ananias ans Saphirra went to heaven when they died; it doesn't say anywhere in scripture that they went there, or that they were even genuine believers according to Matthew 7:21-23.

Problem is the scripture clearly states that they lied to the Holy Spriit who indwelled them. Unbelievers cannot lie to the Holy Spirit who does not indwell them. Matt 7 refers to genuine believers who are commanded to depart BECAUSE THEY PRACTICED INEQUITY - not because they were not genuine believers as you assert. The text speaks for itself.

In fact, I find that the scripture substantiates my view more than any evidence there might be to attempt to show it to be wrong.

How so? The apostle Paul contradicts your view as he warned in Rom 8:13.

 

[justbyfaith]

That is a strange thing to say.

Indeed. I said it because you were glorifying the devil by what you were saying. Maybe even speaking into existence an attack from him on my person (if there be any truth to that type of thinking, concerning words creating reality).

 

[justbyfaith]

In name only? Where is that term used in reference to the Corinthian church? Paul admonishes them not because they were really unbelievers but because they were believers who were sinning. Why would Paul waste his time addressing unbelievers who can only choose to sin since they are not redeemed? Your logic does no make sense.

Paul was addressing a group of people who were visibly the church at Corinth. In Matthew 7:21-23 the people to whom Jesus says, "I never knew you" look like Christians on the outside. Paul knew that he was addressing a group of people of whom some were workers of iniquity and therefore Jesus would say to them, "I never knew you" apart from them repenting before they stood before Him. These were Christians in name only, maybe they even "did wonderful works in his name." but their faith was not genuine in that it did not change their relationship to sin (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42).

Problem is the scripture clearly states that they lied to the Holy Spirit who indwelt them. Unbelievers cannot lie to the Holy Spirit who does not indwell them. Matt 7 refers to genuine believers who are commanded to depart BECAUSE THEY PRACTICED INEQUITY - not because they were not genuine believers as you assert. The text speaks for itself.

Nope. It doesn't say that the Holy Spirit dwelt in Ananias and Saphira. Look again. The Holy Spirit whom they lied to was in Peter.

So genuine believers can practice iniquity? And also, Jesus will say "I never knew you" to genuine believers because they practice iniquity?

How so? The apostle Paul contradicts your view as he warned in Rom 8:13.

How does Romans 8:13 contradict my view? I find that that scripture substantiates it.