Sin in Christianity

[Zoness]

**The scope of this thread has been widened to include all religions, sin is also being used in the most generic context.**

Let's address a classic problem, What causes people to sin or do evil?

1. God has only predestined a few people to heaven so that your life is scripted, sin included. You have no control.
2. The devil or demonic forces makes otherwise neutral people do bad things
3. People are inherently evil and cannot do good.
4. Other

For non-Abrahamic religions:

Do you have a concept of sin? How are these concepts addressed?

Thoughts?

 

[gord44]

Let's address a classic problem, What causes people to sin or do evil?

1. God has only predestined a few people to heaven so that your life is scripted, sin included. You have no control.
2. The devil or demonic forces makes otherwise neutral people do bad things
3. People are inherently evil and cannot do good.

Thoughts?

When I was a Calvinist, I would answer #3. That seemed ok until I saw non-Christians do good.

I think sin needs to be redefined not as doing something wrong, but missing the mark. Not truly knowing who we are. We are all born with the divine spark, sin in its basest form is forgetting that and not pursuing it. True sin would be those who float through life just accepting what they see and what they are told without questioning until they die. They missed the mark.

 

[Zoness]

When I was a Calvinist, I would answer #3. That seemed ok until I saw non-Christians do good.

I think sin needs to be redefined not as doing something wrong, but missing the mark. Not truly knowing who we are. We are all born with the divine spark, sin in its basest form is forgetting that and not pursuing it. True sin would be those who float through life just accepting what they see and what they are told without questioning until they die. They missed the mark.

I like this definition a lot more than missing a bunch of culturally prescribed rules. I'm sure there will be lots of push back on this sub about that definition but it sure makes sense to me.

 

[HeathenWarrior]

I think sin needs to be redefined not as doing something wrong, but missing the mark. Not truly knowing who we are. We are all born with the divine spark, sin in its basest form is forgetting that and not pursuing it. True sin would be those who float through life just accepting what they see and what they are told without questioning until they die. They missed the mark.

I second this.

 

[LoAmmi]

I think sin needs to be redefined not as doing something wrong, but missing the mark.

Instead of redefined, one could simply use the original Hebrew definition that means...

missing the mark.

 

[gord44]

Instead of redefined, one could simply use the original Hebrew definition that means...

missing the mark.

Brilliant!

 

[Zoness]

Instead of redefined, one could simply use the original Hebrew definition that means...

missing the mark.

Ah, suddenly it makes much more sense.

 

[Deacon Don]

Let's address a classic problem, What causes people to sin or do evil?

1. God has only predestined a few people to heaven so that your life
is scripted, sin included. You have no control.
2. The devil or demonic forces makes otherwise neutral people do bad
things
3. People are inherently evil and cannot do good.

Thoughts?

I don't subscribe to any of the three.

Because of Adam we inherit a sinful nature. That doesn't make one
evil. A sin is anything that displeases God. Jesus was sent to save
us from our sin.

 

[Zoness]

I don't subscribe to any of the three.

Because of Adam we inherit a sinful nature. That doesn't make one
evil. A sin is anything that displeases God. Jesus was sent to save
us from our sin.

Which was first taught by St. Augustine, the doctrine of "original sin" and all that. Does that not make people inherently evil? I've heard a middle position that people are "inherently evil" but they CAN do good. It depends on the theological persuasion of the person.

 

[Deacon Don]

Which was first taught by St. Augustine, the doctrine of "original sin" and
all that. Does that not make people inherently evil? I've heard a middle
position that people are "inherently evil" but they CAN do good. It
depends on the theological persuasion of the person.

I believe it was first taught by Paul in his letter to the Romans.

We are going to sin, call it evil if necessary. Nobody has to teach
how to do that. And yes evil people can do good things.

 

[elephunky]

Let's address a classic problem, What causes people to sin or do evil?

1. God has only predestined a few people to heaven so that your life is scripted, sin included. You have no control.
2. The devil or demonic forces makes otherwise neutral people do bad things
3. People are inherently evil and cannot do good.

Thoughts?

Well first you have to ask what is Sin and how are actions measured and get applied with that label.

Personally...I think sin is a concept made by man to have an influence on the actions of others (when it is used outside of the intended religion).

 

[Deacon Don]

Well first you have to ask what is Sin and how are actions measured
and get applied with that label.

God's pretty clear what sin is. You can start with the
Ten Commandments.

 

[elephunky]

God's pretty clear what sin is. You can start with the
Ten Commandments.

You misunderstand my point.

 

[Masihi]

Let's address a classic problem, What causes people to sin or do evil?

1. God has only predestined a few people to heaven so that your life is scripted, sin included. You have no control.
2. The devil or demonic forces makes otherwise neutral people do bad things
3. People are inherently evil and cannot do good.

Thoughts?

What we see is a large script that plays out at multiple levels.

Gd YHWH knows whether a person is redeemed or not even before birth. The messiah and the devil do not know, neither do angels and of course no human knows. The stage was set from the start with original sin so that everyone since was made part of Gds plan, whether willingly or not. Free will and knowledge of good and evil was thrown in for fun. The devil is under Gds control and is only used when needed such as at the temptation of Christ. I like a pastors comment on angelic beings: "when above they are angels and when in hell, they are devils".

Even with the redeemed known beforehand, Gd directs humans to prefer godly characteristics such as love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness and self-control. Also Gds shining moment was His introduction of the messiah onto the world stage at the right moment, first spending 1500 yrs on israel preparing the world for the messiah's arrival. Gd selects out of the pot of humanity the so-called redeemed who trust Gd thru the Messiah. This trusting quality is a unique but useful tool to Gd for unknown purposes.

I think people that love Gd thru Christ diverge to experiment with other spiritual facets and some return to Christ due to rediscovery or Gds grace. Either way, it is unknown who will be redeemed for sure but I think Gd keeps people as they are (doing right or doing wrong) for the sake of keeping the world status quo. As the saying "let the wicked continue to do wickedly and let the righteous continue to do righteously". I personally believe Pauls saying, "anyone who trusts in Him (Christ) shall never be put to shame." I appreciate Gd sending a human as our messiah, I dont think an angelic being could understand man as well nor wear those shoes (sandals).
I mentioned all three of your points although:
3. the thoughts/imaginatios of men are evil from youth

 

[dlamberth]

Because of Adam we inherit a sinful nature.

Basically, your talking about the Fall. Who made that up? I think that we are rising and that we are not fallen. Believing that they are fallen just keeps everyone in their place. I think we need to pull out of that kind of thinking and re-frame who we actually are as human beings...that we are a people rising, and not a fallen people. The evolution of human beings is to push up or to rise to the next level of consciousness.

.

 

[elephunky]

I thought it was Eve's fault not Adam lol

 

[Deacon Don]

... I like a pastors comment on angelic beings: "when above they
are angels and when in hell, they are devils"...

Throughout the New Testament the devil, demons or evil spirit
is used. That certainly distinguishes them from angelic messengers.

 

[Deacon Don]

Basically, your talking about the Fall. Who made that up?

Paul.
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and
death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all
sinned. Romans 5:12

 

[Masihi]

Throughout the New Testament the devil, demons or evil spirit
is used. That certainly distinguishes them from angelic messengers.

Have you heard that demons are the souls of devil engineered human hybrids. I keep demons out of this discussion even though they were used in humans to show the world that Christ has control over such beings.

I understand the confusion although I think devils were once angelic and the opposite may also be true. Gd calls on both for different tasks.

 

[Deacon Don]

I understand the confusion although I think devils were once angelic
and the opposite may also be true. Gd calls on both for different tasks.

What confusion? Certainly not from my point of view.

Correct, they once were.