Sin & HS

[Keachian]

Genesis 6:3(NKJV)
3And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” (see verse 5 also)

God don't roll with sinners and He will not coexist with sin.

How does God handle sinners? Through the Cross (Is 53:6)

He is Holy!

No one is disputing this

this is what God thinks of sinners:

Ezekiel 18:4(NKJV)
4 “Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.

Totally misrepresenting what God is saying here, read from the start of the chapter.

He says sinners deserve death (rom 6:23)!

Yes completely disingenuous and misrepresentative of what St. Paul is saying, tell me what does he say next?

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Well, sin is what WE do that disobey's God's commandments and God cannot have any part of us if we continue sinning and not ask for forgiveness. And I think Christ's blood was so powerful that it covers are sins, as long as we continue walking in the light and asking for forgiveness, as said in 1 John 1:7-9.

 

[Giver]

Your first question was "Can sin and God coexist in the same space?" How did Christ become sin for us if he cannot "coexist" with sin? I think in many ways that to make the claim that God and sin cannot coexist is to run headlong screaming into the stumbling block that is the Cross, there is a religion that claims God cannot interact with sin, it's called Islam, if you want to take that stance you cannot do so within what is considered Christianity.

Sin is something rotten, evil, and distasteful to God. So you believe Paul was saying the Jesus became something rotten, evil, and distasteful?

 

[Keachian]

Well, sin is what WE do that disobey's God's commandments and God cannot have any part of us if we continue sinning and not ask for forgiveness.

Yet God has chosen to have us, such that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us, while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son and so we have hope for life in him. I really can't agree with you that it is what we do that makes us right with God.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Yet God has chosen to have us, such that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us, while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son and so we have hope for life in him. I really can't agree with you that it is what we do that makes us right with God.

Please take this as sarcastically as possible: I'm really glad that you don't agree with a concept that I didn't say.
[/end of sarcasm]


I am fully aware that it was Christ's sacrifice that redeemed us and covers our sins when we ask for forgiveness.

 

[seekertruth72]

The only way one can understand the written Word of God is to have God teach him or her.

Yes but the Lord said seek and you will find, we cant understand if we don't seek to understand.

 

[Keachian]

Sin is something rotten, evil, and distasteful to God. So you believe Paul was saying the Jesus became something rotten, evil, and distasteful?

Of course I am, why do you disagree that Christ became a curse to the nations, or do you not understand that cursed is he who is hanged upon a gibbet? Christ humbled himself to death upon a gibbet and yes we see him terrified at the thought of becoming sin "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will." but he goes through with it to bring many sons to glory.

It is abhorrent to some that God would come and take on the role of a suffering servant, that he would tarnish his holy nature through taking up our sins and becoming a curse to the nations, but this is what we have faith in, this action of God and no other do we proclaim as the only remission of sins. The word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[Keachian]

Please take this as sarcastically as possible: I'm really glad that you don't agree with a concept that I didn't say.
[/end of sarcasm]


I am fully aware that it was Christ's sacrifice that redeemed us and covers our sins when we ask for forgiveness.

Sorry, this thread is just filled to the brim with pelagianism, sorry that I attacked you

 

[Going Merry]

monataism, now plegianism

i fail to see what's wrong with all this stuff people keep claiming i am lol

 

[PaladinValer]

The Early Church taught what I and the others who agree.

Therefore, all other interpretations must be wrong or God failed to preserve the Church.

 

[Giver]

Yet God has chosen to have us, such that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us, while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son and so we have hope for life in him. I really can't agree with you that it is what we do that makes us right with God.

Accept it or not one will never enter the kingdom of God if he or she sins.

If one knows God then asking for forgiveness will do no good.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.

If one is not spiritual/knowing God and sins then the following verse tells what is in store for them.

(Galations 5:13-26)”For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love. For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you go on biting and devouring one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another. I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh. For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want. But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ [Jesus] have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit. Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envious of one another.”

 

[Going Merry]

The Early Church taught what I and the others who agree.

Therefore, all other interpretations must be wrong or God failed to preserve the Church.

ok then

 

[Giver]

The Early Church taught what I and the others who agree.

Therefore, all other interpretations must be wrong or God failed to preserve the Church.

The people in the Early Church knew that one would not sin after coming to know God.

God did not fail to keep his Church from Satan. He said the gates of Hell shall not prevail. Well this life is not over the people who live the whole Word of God are God’s Church, and those people will be known soon.

 

[Keachian]

Accept it or not one will never enter the kingdom of God if he or she sins.

If one knows God then asking for forgiveness will do no good.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.

Who said anything about sinning willfully? I do not understand my own actions, I do not do what I want but the very thing I hate, If I do what I do not want to then I agree with the Law, It is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me.

If one is not spiritual/knowing God and sins then the following verse tells what is in store for them.

(Galations 5:13-26)”For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love. For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you go on biting and devouring one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another. I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh. For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want. But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ [Jesus] have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit. Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envious of one another.”

The use of this passage really doesn't sit right with me, Paul has said no longer submit to a yoke of slavery and here you are telling us that if we do not submit to the yoke of doing then we have no Christ in us, our response to God's grace is to love one another and to love God above all else, but I get the feeling that from your perspective it is as the Mormons say the grace of God for when we are spent.

 

[seekertruth72]

So many things. Obey the law, dont obey the law, listen to paul, dont listen to paul... EOC, RCC, UCC, this way that way .... sigh.

It seems simple enough to flee from and abstain from works of the flesh and seek to walk in spiritual things instead, all along praying, hoping, enduring, abiding.

Yep, ill keep it simple and just do that.

 

[Giver]

Who said anything about sinning willfully? I do not understand my own actions, I do not do what I want but the very thing I hate, If I do what I do not want to then I agree with the Law, It is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me.


The use of this passage really doesn't sit right with me, Paul has said no longer submit to a yoke of slavery and here you are telling us that if we do not submit to the yoke of doing then we have no Christ in us, our response to God's grace is to love one another and to love God above all else, but I get the feeling that from your perspective it is as the Mormons say the grace of God for when we are spent.

I don’t know what the Mormons say, but if one does not obey God he or she will never enter the kingdom of God.

You don’t like what Paul said in (Galations 5:13-26), but I know it is true.

 

[Keachian]

So many things. Obey the law, dont obey the law, listen to paul, dont listen to paul... EOC, RCC, UCC, this way that way .... sigh.

It seems simple enough to flee from and abstain from works of the flesh and seek to walk in spiritual things instead, all along praying, hoping, enduring, abiding.

Yep, ill keep it simple and just do that.

It's simpler than that, in fact in many ways what you just said is flat out gnosticism (the physical is bad, the spiritual is good) Yes we are to flee from all appearance of sin, however if we were to just do that we would fail and be damned, instead we look to Christ, the perfecter and author of our faith and the grace which is freely given to us from God. So our fleeing from sin is our response to this grace and has no impact on our salvation.

 

[seekertruth72]

It's simpler than that, in fact in many ways what you just said is flat out gnosticism (the physical is bad, the spiritual is good) Yes we are to flee from all appearance of sin, however if we were to just do that we would fail and be damned, instead we look to Christ, the perfecter and author of our faith and the grace which is freely given to us from God. So our fleeing from sin is our response to this grace and has no impact on our salvation.

Of course we look to Christ and live by faith in Him and Gods grace. That goes without saying

 

[Keachian]

I don’t know what the Mormons say, but if one does not obey God he or she will never enter the kingdom of God.

What is Grace? It is not the first stepping stone to the Kingdom of God, the rest being do this, don't do that, nor is it the last, it is the gate into the Kingdom of God. Are we not the temple of the Holy Spirit? If we are then surely the temple is the very center of the Kingdom of God, after all the temple is the throne of God.

You don’t like what Paul said in (Galations 5:13-26), but I know it is true.

That's not what I said, I said that you are taking Paul out of context, go back to the start of the chapter.

 

[seekertruth72]

Fleeing from evil works is a response to faith, but i think there is more to it than that.

Its done for different reason i think. Because we know its wrong not to and we want to obey God, and because there is no peace in those things. And like paul said we had no fruit in those things either. Paul seems to suggest we renew our minds by abstaining from those things and walking in love instead, its an important part of how we fight the battle that rages between the spirit and flesh i think.