Sin and free will in heaven

[SolidGoldScarecrow]

Good point, man. See, that was the devil's last chance. If he could get Jesus to sin ebfore he was crucified, the devil was scott-free! There'd be no Jesus to save us from our sins, because Jesus Himself would have sinned. So he tried to get him _to_ sin. He wasn't scared yet because Jesus hadn't beaten him.

Course, now Jesus has the devil's number. He _didn't_ sin, and he was brought fromd eath by the awsome, AWSOME power of God. Jesus out-did the devil. No Jesus rules next to God, and the devil knows he's in trouble, because now Jesus is untouchable by evil. The powers of evil book it at the name of Jesus when used with faith and humility, Jesus is just waiting for the appointed time to drop the perverbial hammer on the devil once and for all.

In short, now that he beat the devil, men's evil, pain, and death, Jesus ownz!

 

[GraftMeIn]

Originally posted by foolsparade
this sounds like an indictment on life.the life we have on earth.doesnt this negate this life?doesnt this create an unhealthy view of the world around us?

How would it give us an unhealthy view? You need to look at all the scriptures, not just one or two.

the Bible does tell us how to live our life on this earth, so that we might gain eternal life.

It tells us to take care of the needy, and to forgive our enemies. It tells us to love others, not hate them, It tells us not to judge others, or we will be judged ourselves.

We shouldn't seek after the things of the world, but the things that come from the heart.

If you found twenty dollars laying in the street, and as you picked up that twenty dollars, you see someone who is hungry or needs clothing. Should you keep that twenty dollars and spend it on something for yourself that you don't realy even need? Or would it be better to buy that person who is hungry a meal with it? or maybe a buy them a piece of clothing?

The Bible teaches us it would be better to help that person who is in need. by helping that other person we have stored up more for ourselves in our eternal life, instead of our life here that is temporary, all those material things we can buy here on earth can't be taken to heaven with us, when our bodies perish.

I don't understand how that can be unhealthy.

 

 

 

[foolsparade]

"The Bible teaches us it would be better to help that person who is in need. by helping that other person we have stored up more for ourselves in our eternal life, instead of our life here that is temporary, all those material things we can buy here on earth can't be taken to heaven with us, when our bodies perish.

I don't understand how that can be unhealthy. "

graftmeln;I agree that we should practice kindness and compassion towards are fellow man.and the earth.But I still cant get away from your underlying theme.That the reason and real motivation for your "goodness" is the hope of a "reward" in some afterlife.I give to the needy because I want to and it is the right thing to do.no rewards no treats,I am not a circus animal.My reward is the feeling of goodness that I have helped someone in need.who is talking about materialism?Now I know why so few conservationist are Christian.

 

[SolidGoldScarecrow]

I don't know about everyone else, bro, but I figure there's got to be thousands of Christians who'd back me up when I say this: When I came to faith in Christ and began studying His exploits and His promises and the details of His life, I wanted to help people because it would make me more like him, and it would show people that there's really a God that loves them. I felt that I had to get outside and start helping people in whatever way I could. And not "had to" as in do it or I'll drop a spirit-thumping on you, little Christian. No way, it was like it was second nature. It was just the thing to do! It was the natural, right thing to do.

Helping people makes me happy! It makes me happy because I know I'm making Jesus happy by helping one of his people, and it makes me happy because I know that I was once upon a time where these guys are, and I would have wanted someone to give me a hand up. Jesus gives His own compassion; total, and without barriers or needs for rewards. The salavation of Jesus which lets me into heaven is enough for me, and I idn't need to do anything to recieve that but go out on a limb and say "Okay, Jesus...show me what you've got for me, I'll believe in you."

 

[GraftMeIn]

Our reward is an eternal life with God. The reason we want to do good is because we want God in our life, We love God with all our heart, and soul, therefore we want what he wants, and that is to do good to others.

What does a Christian being a conservationist or not have to do with anything?

If you realy stop and think about it, The bible tells us not to seek after the things of the world. Aren't those things of the world (our worldy possesions) the very same things that help destroy the earth? they're all built in factories that help destroy the enviroment.

 

[foolsparade]

graftmeln,are you suggesting the only way anyone can do good is because they want God in their life?are you suggesting that anyone that does not have God{christ} in their life is incapable of love,kindness,and compassion?are athiests running wild in the streets commiting acts of debauchery and murder and war?I dont think so.As far as my refference to conservation not being a bastion of Christian presence,it makes sense does'nt it?You'all have your eyes set for this eternal reward without so much as a slight care for the planet that we live on.We hunt animals to extinction,the population continues to spiral out of control,etc.who cares right?You are going to heaven!I would also point out that this is the same "mindset" that the terrorists have.They dont care about killing people,for they are justified with the prospect of their eternal reward.Obviously I dont in any way consider you a terrorist,you probably are a very nice person..

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

are you suggesting the only way anyone can do good is because they want God in their life?

You do good because God has written that on your heart. Without Him, you would be in hell, by definition.

 

[SolidGoldScarecrow]

Man, I think you're reading way (note, way) too much into what he's been saying.

 

[GraftMeIn]

Originally posted by foolsparade
graftmeln,are you suggesting the only way anyone can do good is because they want God in their life?are you suggesting that anyone that does not have God{christ} in their life is incapable of love,kindness,and compassion?

Not at all, am I suggesting such a thing. I know many people who don't have God in their life, some of who are much better at doing good things for others than I am.

are athiests running wild in the streets commiting acts of debauchery and murder and war?

I have no idea what most of them are doing. Nor did I make any claims that I did.

As far as my refference to conservation not being a bastion of Christian presence,it makes sense does'nt it?You'all have your eyes set for this eternal reward without so much as a slight care for the planet that we live on.We hunt animals to extinction,the population continues to spiral out of control,etc.who cares right?You are going to heaven!

Who says we don't care? I have never hunted an animal, but I'm not going to judge someone else for doing so, maybe they can't afford to buy meat, so they hunt for it. Sorry to break it to you but where I live the deer are over-populated. but that doesn't mean I'm going to go out and shoot them, I enjoy seeing them.

come to think of it, I don't know of too many christians that do hunt, So why do you blame them for the worlds problems?

I'm sure athiests have just as many children as christians do. so why does the poplution problem lay on our heads only? We want our children, and their children to have a good world to grow up in just as much as you do.

I would also point out that this is the same "mindset" that the terrorists have.They dont care about killing people,for they are justified with the prospect of their eternal reward.Obviously I dont in any way consider you a terrorist,you probably are a very nice person..

Interesting point you make here, I also find it interesting that the very people they want to kill are Christians and Jews.

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by s0uljah


You do good because God has written that on your heart. Without Him, you would be in hell, by definition.

If this is true, then why do people from different cultures have different concepts of what is good? Is God confused?

 

[SolidGoldScarecrow]

Close, the people are. Cultures do so much screaming for your attention that we tend to miss or construe what the Father has placed within us.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Adam and Eve were with God, and they sinned."

*sigh* neo, think about this..they had not been in sin and saved. Thus it doesn't meet my requirements I set out. Please READ what I write first. Thanks dude

 

[LouisBooth]

"If this is true, then why do people from different cultures have different concepts of what is good? Is God confused?"

so now we are defining God by what man does? That's a sad sad day....

 

[SolidGoldScarecrow]

Peace, pal...he's only stating what's on his mind.

 

[LouisBooth]

I'm at peace, I just think its quite sad to define God by human standards...God himself left open his limits...I am the great I AM.....no ending statement...no limit...

 

[CHRISTgospel]

Reformationist, may I correct you in love?

The reason, James, is because when we get to heaven we will receive our glorified bodies. [/unquote]

1 Cor 15:51-54

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

It is at the 7th trump when Christ comes again that we receive our immortal (glorified) bodies. We don't go to Heaven to receive this.

much love in Christ,
Sondra

 

[CHRISTgospel]

grrrr.... ooops on the quote not coming through - trying again

The reason, James, is because when we get to heaven we will receive our glorified bodies.

 

[Simonline]

Foolsparade

Can I suggest that you obtain a copy of "Pollution and the Death of Man" by Francis Schaeffer (published by Crossway Books) and read it. It is an excellent treatise on how Christians should approach the whole issue of conservation and that this world which was created by God and declared by Him to be "very good" is to be affirmed and enjoyed not denied and escaped from.

The idea of escaping from this physical world into a non-corporeal "spiritual" realm  is actually anti-Christian and stems from Gnostic / Helenistic influences upon the early Church which are still deeply ingrained within the 21st Century Church. (Hasten the day when the Church is finally "de-Greeced" and returned back to it's Hebrew roots.)

Simonline

 

[Duane Morse]

Just curious, but do any of you have a scripture that states there is no sin in heaven?

 

[Pastor N.B.]

Originally posted by James D.
I'm just wondering how sin can not exist in heaven without free will being stifled. If it's possible for God to retain free will while preventing sin and suffering why, do you think, he didn't do it on Earth?

******************

Hi, (the above ones were all 'tested'. and the un/safe ones were cast out)
The GodHead's creation all have free will. (other world's') Also, the Gospel & God's Covenant are [Everlasting]. Also, at the [starting] point all were perfect, yet [not] in MATURITY. Man was made a little 'lower' than the angels. (remember that they, 1/3 fell) Yet, still Adam & Eve were said to be created not good, BUT VERY GOOD. Not a perfect MATURE character though.
The same was true of [all] before us!

So what chance did we have then?? Another reason might be to shorten the 'sin question'? (time/wise) This was what Christ came to prove!
That man had & has all of the provisions to live [ABOVE] sin. Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9. (only through Christ! Acts 4:12) Yet, even this is not the one time sin, but the [ending result] that makes one safe to safe or un/safe to save. Try Hosea 4:6 to see the [end] result. Also 1 John 5:16-17 for the sin from start to finish that is forgivable & then is un/forgiveable. "My Spirit shall not always [STRIVE] with man..." (Gen. 6:3) In other words, from sin's starting point, to the [open continuence of its ending?] Try Psalms 19:13, notice the words of.. "keep me back [ALSO] from".

There comes a time when all will be 'settled in', or out of [the Faith]. Perfect, and [MATURE perfect], OK? This is what the USA government has their court system built on! WE are all sinners out on probation. (given the ernest of the Spirit--DOWN payment!) It is our duty to see that we break not the Royal Law of God! (in this case Caesars law) We are [at liberty] to obey or NOT OBEY. But what happens when one does not? Jail.

That is why one MUST BE BORN AGAIN to be saved. YET, this is ONLY THE STARTING POINT! See Eccl.'s last few verses.

Hope this helps?
P/N/B/