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sin and atheism

MrPolo

Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20
Jul 29, 2007
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Funny in light of sept 11 everyone is banging on how immoral that plane crash was yet the people who organised it dont see it as immoral.
I guess its just a major flaw in atheism?

I don't want to speak on their behalf, but I've never heard a consistent or objective reason for why they choose the things they choose to be moral or otherwise.
 
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Girder of Loins

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From what I have gathered, there are two different views.

First, there is objective right and wrong. Of course, how they got here has so many theories. But here is one. Early stages of human life found working together was benficial to their cause. So, they worked together and helped each other. Now, that trait has been passed down generation to generation, not genetically, but socially. Like us calling certain wavelengths in the visible spectrum "red". Its still subjective to its own degree. Obviously, the color could be blue if you were raised that way, but it is a social norm to call it "red". Therefore, that wavelength is now "red" until another social norm takes its place through social evolution(which usually has nothing to do with genetic evolution).

Second theory is that all morals are relative. Killing babies is good. Helping a poor lady across the street is good. All things are equally good and bad. This theory is usually not accepted due to its many "foul areas" like baby killing.

Third theory is that truth is relative, but only if it doesn't harm others. This one is widely accepted(political correctness anyone?), but is easily refuted. It is contradictory because you can't do good to everyone at once. If I give a dollar to a lady, a person might see me as being favoritist, and would cause negative feelings in them. Plus, I'm short a dollar, so I have done bad to myself financially. Therefore, the theory itself contradicts itself.

Really, the only hard theory to refute is the first one. Still haven't figured it out yet. Any thoughts? Who knows, maybe we can start a little debate in a controlled environment to build us up. I love doing that. Not sure if it would be against the rules... Anyone wanna try??? :D
 
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SirPhoenix

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Atheism is in it's broadest definition the answer to a single question, "Do you believe in a god or gods?" If one answers, no, then one is an atheist (without god). Atheism is only concerned with that one question. Morals, politics, origin of the universe, etc. are all separate questions on which atheists have varied beliefs.

So, when it comes to morality, atheists have a varied and often dissenting opinion. The only thing atheists will agree upon would be that morality doesn't come from God as they do not believe he exits.

I can speak only for myself when I say that I believe that our moral outlook is something that developed over time as humans started living in groups. Are they based on a standard? I think yes to an extent. Humans in general value life over death, health over sickness, prosperity over poverty, etc. These general concepts make up our moral identity. Do I think morals are based on absolutes? No.

Person to person, cultture to culture, there will be differences in some moral values. I say something is wrong based only on my evaluation of the situation, and I have the right to do so. However, only when I work with my fellow human beings can I take what I call right and wrong and work shape the world based on that.
 
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rogueapologist

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It's one of the flaws in atheism. You'll get varying answers like societal consensus or something like that, but without a true arbiter, even such answers are prone to subjectivity.

But even if one posits a "true arbiter," the answers are still prone to subjectivity. A quick review of Christian history will reveal that pinning down an objective Christian "morality" is something that never actually happened. Sure, people will appeal to Scripture, the Church, etc. as "objective" sources of morality. But notwithstanding these claims, the actual application and interpretation of moral standards is ultimately subjective.

So honestly, I'm not sure criticizing a non-religious morality as being "subjective" is entirely fair. We are all subjective beings, and simply claiming that we believe in "objective," "absolute" standards does not mean that 1.) these exist or 2.) that we have definitively demonstrated their existence and our infallible interpretation and application of them.
 
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