*sigh* legalism....?

[calgaryguy]

Ok, I am a born again Christian. Grew up attending a non denominational, biblical based church. I was saved in my early teens...however distanced myself from that group of believers at about 16 or 17. The reason for this was they were so legalistic. Very few even had televisions in their homes. (my family did and that was something that was frowned upon.) But they taught that distancing ourselves from all non believers is what God wants. I was disturbed by this, because I know that from an outside view that we appeared to be exclusive, better then everyone else types...and how do we attract lost souls to Christ like that??
Anyway.. I am now 25 and I am sorry to say that I have wondered from god in the past years. Now I am rebuilding my relationship with Him (its amazing to see that He never left my side) But I miss the companionship of other Christians.
I am scared though.. I live across the country now and I am afraid to find that they will be the same here as they were back home. And Im afraid to look for a new group of believers because I guess I dont know what to expect. Can anyone else relate to my feelings? I mean I all this legalism is really stressing me out. I mean I know there is a lot of trash on tv but am I displeasing God by owning and watching one? Is it wrong to have close friends who arent Christians? Is it wrong to work hard for success in non spiritual aspects of our lives?? Like a career or athletecism? Am I out to lunch to question these kinds of attitudes?
Help people!
John

 

[ArdithKay]

Ok, I am a born again Christian. Grew up attending a non denominational, biblical based church. I was saved in my early teens...however distanced myself from that group of believers at about 16 or 17. The reason for this was they were so legalistic. Very few even had televisions in their homes. (my family did and that was something that was frowned upon.) But they taught that distancing ourselves from all non believers is what God wants. I was disturbed by this, because I know that from an outside view that we appeared to be exclusive, better then everyone else types...and how do we attract lost souls to Christ like that??
Anyway.. I am now 25 and I am sorry to say that I have wondered from god in the past years. Now I am rebuilding my relationship with Him (its amazing to see that He never left my side) But I miss the companionship of other Christians.
I am scared though.. I live across the country now and I am afraid to find that they will be the same here as they were back home. And Im afraid to look for a new group of believers because I guess I dont know what to expect. Can anyone else relate to my feelings? I mean I all this legalism is really stressing me out. I mean I know there is a lot of trash on tv but am I displeasing God by owning and watching one? Is it wrong to have close friends who arent Christians? Is it wrong to work hard for success in non spiritual aspects of our lives?? Like a career or athletecism? Am I out to lunch to question these kinds of attitudes?
Help people!
John

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the desire to be successful. And, as a man, you are given a gift by God to excel and be a provider for yourself and family.

In all this we must have balance. Balance and discipline in all areas of our lives. God wants you to succeed in life, regardless of what you are doing, however, do not forsake the "down time" He has for you either. Being driven is not wrong, just don't make it your total and complete focus. We can reach burn-out quickly if we are motivated by just acquiring "stuff", which will pass away.

Give as much time and attention to other areas of your life. Put God first and your relationship with Him. THEN all these things will be added unto you.

God doesn't care about your "stuff", He cares about YOU!!

"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?"

Your soul and your walk with Him should also be a priority. When you put things in its proper order you will have fulfillment and a balanced life.

As far as friendship, you must ask yourself, what do you really want in relationship? Just to hang out, someone to talk with, etc. Are you looking for a long lasting relationship or just a casual hello every now and again?

Real relationships come from having someone "relate" to you. I you desire friends, are they the kind of friends that will lift you up or are just spinning your wheels.

I find very few "Christian" friends that even have the same mind and heart as I do. While being a Christian is okay, some tend to view it as a religious function and not a relationship with the Lord daily. I put them into a catagory that is no different than my secular friends. They are "nice" to be with but they really don't bring into the relationship anything that I need or want.

The Lord knows your heart and knows your desires. Cast your desire on Him and He will give you the desires of your heart.

We all need friends that will challenge us and encourage us. Someone who will be there for you when things aren't always good. Quality relationships take time and energy as well. It depends on what you put into it is what you are going to get out of it.

Spiritually, I do not cling to what is not beneficial to myself or my walk with Christ. I find solace in God alone with a small group of closely-knit friends for whom are my support system and prayer partners. They are the ones I can be transparent in front of. Those that will love me even when I don't act like Jesus 24/7.

It is good what you are seeking and ambition is also okay. Just remember to have a balance between work and play. Life won't seem so lonely or meaningless when you spread yourself out a little more than just work and earthly success.

 

[Gimpy]

There is nothing wrong in owning a television, or having friends who are not Christians. I mean, didnt Christ attend gatherings or even parties of non believers? How else would he ever have a chance to show them the right way? And as far as a television, God does not care if you own a Mercedes Benz or a Ford Escort. It all just depends on the place you put Him in your heart and your mind. If God lets your know you shouldnt have a television, then, dont own a television. Otherwise, dont let the traditions of men or women influence you. No where in the Bible does it say you can not be entertained for some down time. If they feel guilty about such things, then it is thier conviction, not yours. If it does not specifically say something is a sin in the Bible, then it isnt, unless God puts it into your mind and heart that it is, and even then, it is for you and not for necessarily for everyone else.

 

[SpiritWalk]

Might I suggest checking into Calvary Chapel.. I had similar experiences and was blessed to find such a wonderful church of bible believing non-legalistic Christians.

 

[decadencia]

While i detest legalism (enforcing your personal ethics upon other people). I dont think its such an off thing that people may start removing things if they distract them from God such as television

 

[Wizzer]

Might I suggest checking into Calvary Chapel.. I had similar experiences and was blessed to find such a wonderful church of bible believing non-legalistic Christians.

I too am attending a Calvary Chapel, but not because it is the ideal church, but because most other churches in my area are so bad! The Calvary Chapel I go to is very large, so it is a good place to go and hide out, hang out, whatever you might call it. You can go and not feel pressured to join (which is a good thing since they don't have church membership). My wife and I go mainly because it is a good place for the kids. I have some doctrinal differences with them, so I would prefer going to a church where I could actually serve, but for now this appears to be my only alternative - and for now it will do. So, Calgaryguy, I concur with SpiritWalk, check out a Calvary Chapel if you are looking for a place where you can sit back and spend some time evaluating the religious landscape. You can make friends there and begin to feel out who you are and what you believe, but be warned, Calvary Chapel, just like most other denominations, is very protective and controlling. If you want to become deeply involved, you will be asked to accept certain doctrinal teachings, and if you don’t accept these, then you won’t be accepted into leadership (which is my situation). So my advice, if you were to find one, is to go there, but get involved gradually. Really spend time finding out who you are and what you believe (i.e. read the bible carefully for yourself). As is true in most any denomination, they will be teaching their interpretation of scripture. Just remember to take everything you hear with a grain of salt - and always let the true word of God be your guide. I have found much of what they teach to be good stuff, but some of it misses the mark of truth - but this can be said of any denomination.

Wizzer

 

[SoulFly51]

I too am attending a Calvary Chapel, but not because it is the ideal church, but because most other churches in my area are so bad! The Calvary Chapel I go to is very large, so it is a good place to go and hide out, hang out, whatever you might call it. You can go and not feel pressured to join (which is a good thing since they don't have church membership). My wife and I go mainly because it is a good place for the kids. I have some doctrinal differences with them, so I would prefer going to a church where I could actually serve, but for now this appears to be my only alternative - and for now it will do. So, Calgaryguy, I concur with SpiritWalk, check out a Calvary Chapel if you are looking for a place where you can sit back and spend some time evaluating the religious landscape. You can make friends there and begin to feel out who you are and what you believe, but be warned, Calvary Chapel, just like most other denominations, is very protective and controlling. If you want to become deeply involved, you will be asked to accept certain doctrinal teachings, and if you don’t accept these, then you won’t be accepted into leadership (which is my situation). So my advice, if you were to find one, is to go there, but get involved gradually. Really spend time finding out who you are and what you believe (i.e. read the bible carefully for yourself). As is true in most any denomination, they will be teaching their interpretation of scripture. Just remember to take everything you hear with a grain of salt - and always let the true word of God be your guide. I have found much of what they teach to be good stuff, but some of it misses the mark of truth - but this can be said of any denomination.

Wizzer

Its sound to me like Calvary Chapel isn't really meeting your needs.

I know of another fellowship of Christians in that area you might be interested in ... message me if you want more info.

 

[Amisk]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the desire to be successful. And, as a man, you are given a gift by God to excel and be a provider for yourself and family.

In all this we must have balance. Balance and discipline in all areas of our lives. God wants you to succeed in life, regardless of what you are doing, however, do not forsake the "down time" He has for you either. Being driven is not wrong, just don't make it your total and complete focus. We can reach burn-out quickly if we are motivated by just acquiring "stuff", which will pass away.

Give as much time and attention to other areas of your life. Put God first and your relationship with Him. THEN all these things will be added unto you.

God doesn't care about your "stuff", He cares about YOU!!

"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?"

Your soul and your walk with Him should also be a priority. When you put things in its proper order you will have fulfilment and a balanced life.

As far as friendship, you must ask yourself, what do you really want in relationship? Just to hang out, someone to talk with, etc. Are you looking for a long lasting relationship or just a casual hello every now and again?

Real relationships come from having someone "relate" to you. I you desire friends, are they the kind of friends that will lift you up or are just spinning your wheels.

I find very few "Christian" friends that even have the same mind and heart as I do. While being a Christian is okay, some tend to view it as a religious function and not a relationship with the Lord daily. I put them into a category that is no different than my secular friends. They are "nice" to be with but they really don't bring into the relationship anything that I need or want.

The Lord knows your heart and knows your desires. Cast your desire on Him and He will give you the desires of your heart.

We all need friends that will challenge us and encourage us. Someone who will be there for you when things aren't always good. Quality relationships take time and energy as well. It depends on what you put into it is what you are going to get out of it.

Spiritually, I do not cling to what is not beneficial to myself or my walk with Christ. I find solace in God alone with a small group of closely-knit friends for whom are my support system and prayer partners. They are the ones I can be transparent in front of. Those that will love me even when I don't act like Jesus 24/7.

It is good what you are seeking and ambition is also okay. Just remember to have a balance between work and play. Life won't seem so lonely or meaningless when you spread yourself out a little more than just work and earthly success.

You write a fine article, Ardith. I wish I had written it myself, however the Lord gave it to you not me.

I might add that a lot of folks get worried over legalism. They denounce it like it was a case of A.I.D.S. These folks often label you as legalistic whenever you say something they disagree with as if legalism was always wrong. It is not.

The truth of the matter is, legalism is only wrong when the act or demand of the one propagating it spells out something as if your salvation hinged on your works. The things that the Bible lays out as demands up us, or implies to be the way Christian should live must be legalisticly followed, otherwise we fall into sin. Our salvation depends upon holiness in life style, so it is not wise to label everything we disagree with as legalism and therefore to be shunned.

As for friends in the world; there is nothing wrong with having friends in the world, but on the other hand one needs to be carefully that their lifestyle doesn't become ours. Our closest friends therefore need to be fellow Christians. Paul put it this way, "what fellowship has light with darkness?" Christians friends also need to strength our walk in holiness.

While saying what I have just written, Christians ought never to feel themselves better than anyone else, after all we are sinners as well. The only difference between us and the world is that we have cried out for mercy and God through the blood of Christ has forgiven us. We need to remember that this grace of God is unmerited favor, and but for the unmerited favour of God we too would be headed for hell.

While living holy lives we must remain friends with our unsaved neighbours and work mates. Yes, we may appear to be legalistic because we can not go to some of the places they go. We can't share booze them etc.
In the end that is not really what counts anyway. Even though they off times scoff at us, they are really looking a cheerful friendly spirit. One who is there when they need a hand etc. One who lives what they claim to believe. After all this type of friendship is what brings them to the point that they see the difference in our lives.

As some one has said, "If you want to know how a Christian should live, ask a non-Christian work mate. He or she know more about how you should walk than you think they do. They want to see holiness in our lives, even if they don't live it themselves."

 

[Amisk]

Sorry for the double copy

 

[prophecystudent]

First of all, owning worldly goods is not a sin, unless you end up "worshipping" them. ie. place more value on them than you do on your relationship with God. Then it becomes idolatry. TV included. Just be careful what you watch on the TV. If you find yourself getting into areas of TV that make you feel uncomfortable, then don't watch them, that is the Holy Spirit warning you.

Fellowship with non-Christians is not wrong. How else are we to show, and present, the gospel to those who are not yet saved? Isolating one's self from the world, with respect to getting the salvation message out, is wrong (IMO) because of the effect it will have on others. That act of separation may convince some that Christianity is not for them simply because they knew a "christian" who thought he/she was better than everybody else. Such is not a good witness for Christ.

There is nothing wrong with working hard to achieve your goals. Equally, there is nothing wrong with having set yourself high goals and standards. Just don't let it take over your life to the extent that you lose touch with Christ and your family.

Legalism, IMO, is when someone overdoes it. By that I mean that people take individual verses of scripture and over emphasized them to the point of becoming paralyzed.

Taken to its logical extreme, If you right hand leads you to sin, then cut it off. (loosely quoted). Or pluck out your eye.

Either one of these taken to its extreme would tell people to mutilate themselves in the hope of avoiding sin. I am sure that, taken in context, Christ didn't mean to actually mutilate yourself.

Regarding a new church, don't be afraid to try some of them out. If you like one stay there. If you don't keep looking. I would recommend a charismatic church that preaches the gospel of Christ in an uplifting way, not the hellfire and brimstone version all the time.

Don't misunderstand, hellfire and brimstone are sometimes appropriate but not as a steady diet.

The GOOD NEWS should be preached much more than hellfire. '

Fred

 

[Telrunya]

Ok, I am a born again Christian. Grew up attending a non denominational, biblical based church. I was saved in my early teens...however distanced myself from that group of believers at about 16 or 17. The reason for this was they were so legalistic. Very few even had televisions in their homes. (my family did and that was something that was frowned upon.) But they taught that distancing ourselves from all non believers is what God wants. I was disturbed by this, because I know that from an outside view that we appeared to be exclusive, better then everyone else types...and how do we attract lost souls to Christ like that??
Anyway.. I am now 25 and I am sorry to say that I have wondered from god in the past years. Now I am rebuilding my relationship with Him (its amazing to see that He never left my side) But I miss the companionship of other Christians.
I am scared though.. I live across the country now and I am afraid to find that they will be the same here as they were back home. And Im afraid to look for a new group of believers because I guess I dont know what to expect. Can anyone else relate to my feelings? I mean I all this legalism is really stressing me out. I mean I know there is a lot of trash on tv but am I displeasing God by owning and watching one? Is it wrong to have close friends who arent Christians? Is it wrong to work hard for success in non spiritual aspects of our lives?? Like a career or athletecism? Am I out to lunch to question these kinds of attitudes?
Help people!
John

If I were you I would find a church that is going through Focus on the Family's "The Truth Project". That will help clairify some of your questions such as work for profit, athletisism, owning a tv even.

 

[UnderHisWings4Ever]

Legalism is a very dangerous line to walk, even when it is taken in the context described by Amisk. Simply put, it places undue pressure on the believer to follow a certain set of guidelines. 'For all things are lawful.' This is a very controversial verse in my opinion, but clear enough, even taken in context, in its meaning. 'But not all things are edifying.' This is the important part. Just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean we SHOULD. Legalism says, 'You are not allowed to do this, that, or the other, and you have to do these things.' The law of grace is quite different from that. Live your life as God convicts you, and He will move you to deal with certain areas in your life as He is ready. When that time comes, there will be no legalism involved because you will be doing it not to follow a set of rules and guidelines but to bring glory to God and to build up His Kingdom!

 

[mont974x4]

Legalism is a very dangerous line to walk, even when it is taken in the context described by Amisk. Simply put, it places undue pressure on the believer to follow a certain set of guidelines. 'For all things are lawful.' This is a very controversial verse in my opinion, but clear enough, even taken in context, in its meaning. 'But not all things are edifying.' This is the important part. Just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean we SHOULD. Legalism says, 'You are not allowed to do this, that, or the other, and you have to do these things.' The law of grace is quite different from that. Live your life as God convicts you, and He will move you to deal with certain areas in your life as He is ready. When that time comes, there will be no legalism involved because you will be doing it not to follow a set of rules and guidelines but to bring glory to God and to build up His Kingdom!

 

[JVarner83]

Legalism is a very dangerous line to walk, even when it is taken in the context described by Amisk. Simply put, it places undue pressure on the believer to follow a certain set of guidelines. 'For all things are lawful.' This is a very controversial verse in my opinion, but clear enough, even taken in context, in its meaning. 'But not all things are edifying.' This is the important part. Just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean we SHOULD. Legalism says, 'You are not allowed to do this, that, or the other, and you have to do these things.' The law of grace is quite different from that. Live your life as God convicts you, and He will move you to deal with certain areas in your life as He is ready. When that time comes, there will be no legalism involved because you will be doing it not to follow a set of rules and guidelines but to bring glory to God and to build up His Kingdom!

Right on

 

[CrazyforYeshua]

There are some who are called to give up things, but that is up to God to tell them, and up to them to listen. My Pastor recently got rid of cable, because God wanted him to spend more time with Him, and not TV. David Wilkerson ( the cross and the switchblade, and founder of Teen Challenge) got rid of his TV years ago, and is an awesome man of God. It all depends on what God is telling you.
But, I agree, none of those things in themselves is bad.

 

[ANM29]

Ok, I am a born again Christian. Grew up attending a non denominational, biblical based church. I was saved in my early teens...however distanced myself from that group of believers at about 16 or 17. The reason for this was they were so legalistic. Very few even had televisions in their homes. (my family did and that was something that was frowned upon.) But they taught that distancing ourselves from all non believers is what God wants. I was disturbed by this, because I know that from an outside view that we appeared to be exclusive, better then everyone else types...and how do we attract lost souls to Christ like that??
Anyway.. I am now 25 and I am sorry to say that I have wondered from god in the past years. Now I am rebuilding my relationship with Him (its amazing to see that He never left my side) But I miss the companionship of other Christians.
I am scared though.. I live across the country now and I am afraid to find that they will be the same here as they were back home. And Im afraid to look for a new group of believers because I guess I dont know what to expect. Can anyone else relate to my feelings? I mean I all this legalism is really stressing me out. I mean I know there is a lot of trash on tv but am I displeasing God by owning and watching one? Is it wrong to have close friends who arent Christians? Is it wrong to work hard for success in non spiritual aspects of our lives?? Like a career or athletecism? Am I out to lunch to question these kinds of attitudes?
Help people!
John

I can relate. Don't feel alone. I can't stand legalism.

Watching a television is not a sin. Too much of anything can make you an addict. It is not a sin to eat, but it is a sin to eat too much and you will reap the consequences.

No, your not out to lunch to question it. I question it as well, and refuse to be around anyone so caught up in making their "own" laws that they have looked around the cross of Christ and not at it.

I do feel your pain. Don't associate with them if your uncomfortable..