Sick of Protestant-bashing

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St Herman's Ghost

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After ALL of the unbelievable amount of damage Luthor has done spiritually, culturally, theologically, politically, etc? No, I hate Protestantism and I have nothing good to say about it. It's heretical foolishness that's driving people away; both from holy Orthodoxy and Christianity in general.
 
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St Herman's Ghost

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To him who has been given much, much will be required of him. To him who has been given little, little will be required of him.

In Orthodoxy we have been given a full measure, packed down and overflowing. I don't see any reason to bash Protestants who often do so much more with the little they have received.

Do what? Fleece it's parishioners and steal from the church coffers? Spout off heresies and insult the Theotokos? Be bigots? Steal and oppress the poor and homeless? Do what exactly?
 
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Soma Seer

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Any Protestant reading this thread must wonder what is wrong with the Orthodox.

I'm not Protestant but have read more than a few rigid, judgmental posts by some EO members. (Militant comes to mind.) And I'm not the only one who's noticed this mindset exhibited by some. I've a friend who, without any prompting from me, said that she noticed a "we're-better-than-the-rest" attitude while visiting an EO parish and from talking with a few EO members.

That all said, there are two EO members whom I've noticed do not behave kindly and even-handedly toward non-EO forum members. (Jesus4Madrid, you're among that count.) There probably are others, true, but two people stand out for me. Two. :(
 
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Jesus4Madrid

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After ALL of the unbelievable amount of damage Luthor has done spiritually, culturally, theologically, politically, etc? No, I hate Protestantism and I have nothing good to say about it. It's heretical foolishness that's driving people away; both from holy Orthodoxy and Christianity in general.
Yet another post long on vitriol and short on facts.

Given the huge number of Orthodox in the US that have converted from Protestantism, including many on this board and a majority of priests in the Antiochian church in the US, your statement that Protestantism is "driving people away...from Orthodoxy" is demonstrably untrue.

If anything, the Holy Spirit is using Protestantism as a springboard into Orthodoxy, as occurred when so many of the Evangelical Orthodox Church became Orthodox in 1987.
 
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Jesus4Madrid

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I'm not Protestant but have read more than a few rigid, judgmental posts by some EO members. (Militant comes to mind.) And I'm not the only one who's noticed this mindset exhibited by some. I've a friend who, without any prompting from me, said that she noticed a "we're-better-than-the-rest" attitude while visiting an EO parish and from talking with a few EO members.

That all said, there are two EO members whom I've noticed do not behave kindly and even-handedly toward non-EO forum members. (Jesus4Madrid, you're among that count.) There probably are others, true, but two people stand out for me. Two. :(
I'd be happy to discuss that. Given that my wife is RC and my best friends and family are Evangelical, I would doubt there are many here who have as much understanding and love for non Orthodox Christians as I. But I am happy to be reproved if you are correct (though I doubt you are).
 
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Soma Seer

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...I am happy to be reproved if you are correct (though I doubt you are).

My observation likely is incorrect, which is why I wrote: "There probably are others, true, but two people stand out for me." ;) In other words, I do believe/assume that there are other EO members who are kind toward non-EO members; to date, I only have noticed two people who hold this Christ-like spirit toward everyone on this forum; those two give me hope, though I still don't feel compelled to convert to EO.

So take the compliment and run! :D
 
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Jesus4Madrid

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My observation likely is incorrect, which is why I wrote: "There probably are others, true, but two people stand out for me." ;) In other words, I do believe/assume that there are other EO members who are kind toward non-EO members; to date, I only have noticed two people who hold this Christ-like spirit toward everyone on this forum; those two give me hope, though I still don't feel compelled to convert to EO.

So take the compliment and run! :D
Sorry Soma, but I am just really confused. Was there an inadvertent '"not" in your post? You wrote:"That all said, there are two EO members whom I've noticed do not behave kindly and even-handedly toward non-EO forum members. (Jesus4Madrid, you're among that count.)"

Am I being complimented or condemned?
 
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Gentle Lamb

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Hey Everybody,

One thing I found positively refreshing and awesome when I came to Orthodoxy as an inquierer was the fact that Orthodox Christians tended to their own laundry. They talked about what Orthodoxy teaches and believes without the need to compare themselves to a pathetic boogey-man. They aren't the types of folks to feel the need to vent about or bash someone in order to bolster their own theological strengths.

When I was Catholic, I was positively sickened by the fact that Catholics 24/7 in Catholic Answers Forums and other fanatical websites spend most of their time reminding Protestants how "invalid" and "lost" and pathetic and screwed-up they are. Their fires get fed by slamming 'those poor Protestants.'

I criticize Protestantism absolutely. I don't agree with many things about it, and I definitely proclaim Holy Orthodoxy as "THE" Church of Christ Jesus. But I don't need to bash Protestants and their efforts or their approaches to things in order to bolster my own Orthodoxy.

TAW lately has become a bit annoying imho with this manufactured outrage. We have folks getting hot and fumin' over the fact that some evangelicals are mad about Starbucks cups yet they devote entire threads to the subject. So it's ironic that one petty outrage gives birth to another!

I hope TAW can get back to the high road class I saw in it years ago and stop the Protestant-slammin'. My kids go to a Lutheran school and those teachers, by and large, are awesome folks. My parents are Anglicans, and we can all learn much from Protestants. C.S. Lewis pops into mind! I'm not suggesting all churches are the same, just hoping we can enter into this beautiful season without feeling the need to harp on the failings of Protestants. There are plenty of times I hear Protestants say inane things with which I disagree. I tire of the Zionism of some and the crusades of others. I can sit here and laugh at Protestants, or I can be honest and thank them for the heritage of this country. My ancestors were Calvinists and Pilgrims on the Mayflower. They built this land. And I can understand why Luther railed against the Catholic institutions of his time despite the fact I wish he had headed to Orthodoxy instead. I can see the good in them just as I can see the good in Catholicism with its passionate hatred of abortion and its strong pro-life warfare.

I think we're better than evangelical bashing. This country is headed off a cliff with an albatross around its neck. We need evangelicals and Catholics and other Christians as allies, not enemies or fodder for our fun-poking.

Ok, my rant is over.


The thing about the Body of Christ, the thing about being saved by grace through the sacrifice of the one and only Worthy Lamb the Lord Jesus Christ, is that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the new life that he offers us in Him does not have a denomination. The Body of Christ is extremely divided, why? Because Satan promised to persecute us. Why? Because he hates us because God loves us and he knows that his fate is eternal damnation and that he has already been judged. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through Him. What I see a lot among Christians is that we love our denominations and churches more that we love our salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ. There are soooooooooo many doctrinal errors among EVERY SINGLE DENOMINATION, guess who brought them in? Satan! The most low! Because with every doctrinal error he brought in, he brought division.

God loves us more than anything else and He wants us saved, He wants us in Christ Jesus. So He works in our lives, no matter what denomination we may have started off with, and some people, as the Lord has worked in their lives to draw them closer, He has moved them from one denomination to another. Other people He plants firmly in one denomination. This is all the love and grace of God, not anything that we have done on our own. This whole idea of superiority of "Oh my denomination is better than yours because of x, y, and z" is utter nonsense. It's prideful, and guess who loves pride and whose original sin was pride as he tried to lift himself up to the height of God? Satan. We are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, but through the work of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. There is only one Heaven, there is only one way to get there, and that is enter in through the narrow gate, Jesus Christ Himself.

We need to let go of our love of our denomination and hold on to Jesus Christ because He is all that matters. He is the Word by which all things (including you and me) were created. He is the Word became flesh, the innocent, worthy lamb who allowed them to brutalize and murder Him in order that He might give us life, and that was the ultimate sacrifice, that was love! And He still loves us. All this infighting does nothing but further the agenda of our enemy. Do we love Jesus Christ? Do we love our neighbors as we love ourselves? Then there are some things we need to take to the Lord in prayer and ask Him if it is wise to keep certain ideas and entertain certain notions about different denominations. God is NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH. So He calls people from everywhere and brings them into HIS CHURCH, into a denomination that will work for them, and this is His grace, His plan at work.

We are ONE BODY, though we are divided into many parts. We must let go of the divisions and embrace Jesus Christ because in embracing Him the scales will fall from our eyes and we will begin to understand that salvation is not confined to denomination, but it is confined to Jesus Christ alone, the way, the truth, and the life. The main thing we need to do is pray, uphold each other as the body of Christ in prayer because that is the only way that anything gets done. Prayer is our greatest weapon against the enemy and already by distracting us from prayer, he wins a victory. Are we okay with letting the devil in and letting him have victories over us??? If I get wrapped up in how many denominations there are and in thinking that my denomination is better, then am I focused on the Lamb of God? Nope. I'm focused on condemning the people over there because they are "OTHER". This is a lie of the enemy and we need to nip it in the bud right quick so we can get back to the simplicity of the gospel - the blood of Jesus will never lose its power, it goes to the highest mountain and the lowest valley and He is the good shepherd who leaves the 99 to go after the 1. Do you really think that He will commend us in heaven for fighting about our denominations when His focus is on finding the lost?? Absolutely not! We must bring our focus back to Him, ask Him to help us humble ourselves, and focus on what matters - prayer to remove divisions from the Body of Christ and unite us once more in the Holy Spirit and in His love that we may continue to do His work upon the face of His earth that He has given us to inhabit.
 
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All4Christ

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My observation likely is incorrect, which is why I wrote: "There probably are others, true, but two people stand out for me." ;) In other words, I do believe/assume that there are other EO members who are kind toward non-EO members; to date, I only have noticed two people who hold this Christ-like spirit toward everyone on this forum; those two give me hope, though I still don't feel compelled to convert to EO.

So take the compliment and run! :D
I truly do hope that others believe that there are more than two. If anyone ever believes that I am not kind hearted towards non-EO members, please PM me, as that is never ever my intent. That truly saddens me to hear that, as I know there are many more than two who have love and kindness towards non-EO members.
 
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All4Christ

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Sorry Soma, but I am just really confused. Was there an inadvertent '"not" I your post? You wrote:"That all said, there are two EO members whom I've noticed do not behave kindly and even-handedly toward non-EO forum members. (Jesus4Madrid, you're among that count.)"

Am I being complimented or condemned?
Just my 2 cents...I would consider you to be someone who treats non-EO members very well, but I do believe there are more than 2 that treat non-EO kindly and fairly.
 
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Soma Seer

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Sorry Soma, but I am just really confused. Was there an inadvertent '"not" in your post?

You are correct; my bad. I meant to write (in post #43): "...There are two EO members whom I've noticed do behave kindly and even-handedly toward non-EO forum members...." And when you remove the type not from that statement, my previous two posts (hopefully) make much more sense.

Am I being complimented or condemned?

So, yes, you're being complimented. :)
 
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civilwarbuff

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Any Protestant reading this thread must wonder what is wrong with the Orthodox.
Actually no...for the most part the EO & OO that I have posted with have been very polite and informative. As a matter of fact they seem extremely knowledgeable about their faith frequently making me run for my dictionary and history book.:scratch: However, there are some in any circle that, for some reason, intensely dislike those who don't agree with with their beliefs and philosophy and lash out rather than try to understand where those people are and why they believe that way. It is an opportunity they pass up and likely leave a black mark.
 
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prodromos

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Do what? Fleece it's parishioners and steal from the church coffers? Spout off heresies and insult the Theotokos? Be bigots? Steal and oppress the poor and homeless? Do what exactly?
I'm talking about the parishioners who don't know any better because their particular denomination is what they grew up with. They don't have the Eucharist, they don't have confession, they don't have recourse to the Saints, they don't have the rich, deep theology we have access to, and yet some of them put us to shame who have recourse to all those things.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Thank you for the backhanded complement.
I'm talking about the parishioners who don't know any better because their particular denomination is what they grew up with.
Do most Eastern Orthodox grow up with that particular denomination?...or do they come from somewhere else?
They don't have the Eucharist
We do...we call it Communion.
they don't have confession
We have that too....we confess our sins to God the Father in the name of the Son.
they don't have recourse to the Saints
We have the saints...we just don't believe they have any particular influence between us and God.
they don't have the rich, deep theology we have access to,
We have that too...it is called the Holy Bible.
So you see, we really are pretty much the same.
 
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All4Christ

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Do most Eastern Orthodox grow up with that particular denomination?...or do they come from somewhere else?

It depends on the jurisdiction and parish. Some are more "cradle" Orthodox (born and raised Orthodox), and others are more from other backgrounds. The Orthodox Church of America and the Antiochian Orthodox Churches tend to have less "cradle" Orthodox and more who joined the Church later in life.

I was Pentecostal for the majority of my life. I learned about Orthodoxy in college, and 5 years later after much reading and learning - and posting on TAW - started attending an Orthodox parish. I was chrismated in the Orthodox Church about 2 years later.

About a third of my parish is made up of people who grew up outside the Orthdox Church...about another third are their children and the rest are those who grew up Orthodox.

Most of us here at TAW searched long and hard to find our way to where we are. Many of us did not grow up in the Orthodox Church.

I am thankful for my heritage being brought up in a Christian family, and I am very thankful to have found my way to Orthodoxy. I believe what my parents taught me helped me find my way (and follow where God led me) to where I am today.
 
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civilwarbuff

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It depends on the jurisdiction and parish. Some are more "cradle" Orthodox (born and raised Orthodox), and others are more from other backgrounds. The Orthodox Church of America and the Antiochian Orthodox Churches tend to have less "cradle" Orthodox and more who joined the Church later in life.

I was Pentecostal for the majority of my life. I learned about Orthodoxy in college, and 5 years later after much reading and learning - and posting on TAW - started attending an Orthodox parish. I was chrismated in the Orthodox Church about 2 years later.

About a third of my parish is made up of people who grew up outside the Orthdox Church...about another third are their children and the rest are those who grew up Orthodox.

Most of us here at TAW searched long and hard to find our way to where we are. Many of us did not grow up in the Orthodox Church.

I am thankful for my heritage being brought up in a Christian family, and I am very thankful to have found my way to Orthodoxy. I believe what my parents taught me helped me find my way (and follow where God led me) to where I am today.
Thank you for the response....very enlightening.....
 
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gzt

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Do what? Fleece it's parishioners and steal from the church coffers? Spout off heresies and insult the Theotokos? Be bigots? Steal and oppress the poor and homeless? Do what exactly?
The only one that the Orthodox don't do is spout heresies and insult the Theotokos.
 
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