sibling problems

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Maybe someone did something that turned him against church. Either way this is more his parents problem. I wouldn't get my self to involved.You might find your self in the losing end.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Hey everyone

I'm new here and didn't know where to post this, I hope this is an appropriate subject for this forum.

For the past couple of years my older brother (24) has become disrespectful towards my parents, he will take advantage of the fact that he's still living here, gets everything done for him but when it's time to come church or around the weekend, he's really cold and mean towards my parents, not saying that he has to come to church but his tone of voice and the way he demeans and diminishes their faith is really starting to anger me. It just comes off as ungrateful to me, he's a very pessimistic and his attitude is the world is against him.

My parents have raised us to have respect for other people and gave us good morals, they also taught us about Christ from a young age, they have given us a good childhood and we have gotten all our needs. I'm a women (21) and I don't understand why he has to b so cruel to them when they raised him so well. I hate seeing my parents upset even tho they don't show it to me.

My main question is should I be praying for his attitude to change because I feel like it's the choices that he's made that has made him like this, can a person change from prayer?
Also should my parent kick him out for being disrespectful if he feels no remorse in doing so or should they talk to him even tho they have been for a couple years?
Also is it my place to put him in his place as his younger sister?

Thanks to anyone who replies, I need some advice as it's been getting worse in the new year.

Although you don't talk about it in your post... could it perhaps be that the guy is becoming frustrated of having to repeat every single weekend that no, he won't go to church?

Is this a case where his parents (and you?) are riding him every single saturday about church on sundays, while he is not a believer?

Because I can easily imagine how that will result in the dude displaying instant anger and frustration when he has to listen to it again for the bazillionth time.

In any case, your post seems like a very one sided account of the situation.
Nowhere for example, do you actually explain what he is angry about.

I'll go ahead and assume that he doesn't start screaming out of the blue for no reason at all right before "church time", right?

 

[Nithavela]

My main question is should I be praying for his attitude to change because I feel like it's the choices that he's made that has made him like this, can a person change from prayer?

Not if you believe in free will.

 

[SkyWriting]

Hey everyone

I'm new here and didn't know where to post this, I hope this is an appropriate subject for this forum.

For the past couple of years my older brother (24) has become disrespectful towards my parents, he will take advantage of the fact that he's still living here, gets everything done for him but when it's time to come church or around the weekend, he's really cold and mean towards my parents, not saying that he has to come to church but his tone of voice and the way he demeans and diminishes their faith is really starting to anger me. It just comes off as ungrateful to me, he's a very pessimistic and his attitude is the world is against him.

My parents have raised us to have respect for other people and gave us good morals, they also taught us about Christ from a young age, they have given us a good childhood and we have gotten all our needs. I'm a women (21) and I don't understand why he has to b so cruel to them when they raised him so well. I hate seeing my parents upset even tho they don't show it to me.

My main question is should I be praying for his attitude to change because I feel like it's the choices that he's made that has made him like this, can a person change from prayer?
Also should my parent kick him out for being disrespectful if he feels no remorse in doing so or should they talk to him even tho they have been for a couple years?
Also is it my place to put him in his place as his younger sister?

Thanks to anyone who replies, I need some advice as it's been getting worse in the new year.

Your parents have a responsibility to both be supportive
and kick him out of the house, for his own well being.
And you as well if you're over 18.
My wife and I as well as our 4 kids have all benefited
from this policy.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Your parents have a responsibility to both be supportive
and kick him out of the house, for his own well being.
And you as well if you're over 18.
My wife and I as well as our 4 kids have all benefited
from this policy.

"I support you, therefor got the 'h' out of my house!"

Yep, makes perfect sense...

 

[SkyWriting]

"I support you, therefor got the 'h' out of my house!"

Yep, makes perfect sense...

As I said, it worked for my parents, me, my siblings, our 4 kids, and some g-kids as well.
You can't cling to your mommy's breast forever.

 

[DogmaHunter]

As I said, it worked for my parents, me, my siblings, our 4 kids, and some g-kids as well.
You can't cling to your mommy's breast forever.

"not being kicked out of the house the second you are no longer a minor" is not the only alternative to "clinging to your mommy's breast forever".

I graduated from university of antwerp at 21. If I would have been kicked out at 18, I would not have been able to finish my studies - unless my parents paid for my appartment and most everything else, or I engaged in monster debt at the age of 18.

Soon after graduation, I started working and saving money. 2 years later, I moved out with my girlfriend and bought an appartment and a bunch of furniture. Which, again, I would not have been able to do if it wasn't for those 2 years of living rent free at my parents' house.

Just because you live at your parents' house doesn't mean that you necessarily are a "momma's boy" who can't whipe his own behind.

What a ridiculous thing to suggest!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

As I said, it worked for my parents, me, my siblings, our 4 kids, and some g-kids as well.
You can't cling to your mommy's breast forever.

My dad made it clear to all of us that when we graduated from high school, we were gone. We knew this and planned for it. My brother joined the Navy, I moved in with some other guys that were in the same boat. My dad did allow my sister to stay at home for a few months but she too moved in with her girlfriends when she started college. It was not that difficult as both of us had jobs and could support ourselves, especially sharing the rent costs with others. It was actually a relief to be free of the restraints of parental rules. Now we could party! And boy did we.

 

[SkyWriting]

My dad made it clear to all of us that when we graduated from high school, we were gone. We knew this and planned for it. My brother joined the Navy, I moved in with some other guys that were in the same boat. My dad did allow my sister to stay at home for a few months but she too moved in with her girlfriends when she started college. It was not that difficult as both of us had jobs and could support ourselves, especially sharing the rent costs with others. It was actually a relief to be free of the restraints of parental rules. Now we could party! And boy did we.

Others have run their own businesses, sold them, and now they are
retired young, all thanks to the Independence-first policy that america
has embraced.

5 In the paths of the wicked are snares and pitfalls,

but those who would preserve their life stay far from them.

6 Start children off on the way they should go,

and even when they are old they will not turn from it.

7 The rich rule over the poor,

and the borrower is slave to the lender.

 

[SnowyMacie]

"not being kicked out of the house the second you are no longer a minor" is not the only alternative to "clinging to your mommy's breast forever".

I graduated from university of antwerp at 21. If I would have been kicked out at 18, I would not have been able to finish my studies - unless my parents paid for my appartment and most everything else, or I engaged in monster debt at the age of 18.

Soon after graduation, I started working and saving money. 2 years later, I moved out with my girlfriend and bought an appartment and a bunch of furniture. Which, again, I would not have been able to do if it wasn't for those 2 years of living rent free at my parents' house.

Just because you live at your parents' house doesn't mean that you necessarily are a "momma's boy" who can't whipe his own behind.

What a ridiculous thing to suggest!

Exactly. If I had been completely cut off at 18 with no option of returning home, I don't even want to think about what would have happened as I was nowhere remotely prepared completely independent and live on my own, I wasn't even really ready when I graduated college.

 

[Kezia]

Hi, you mentioned that your brother has mood swings? That could be a problem? What is causing his mood swings? Could it be a chemical imbalance? Depends how severe they are & how much they affect his life. There must be a reason why it took him 3 years to find a job? He might suffer from emotional problems that are beyond his control? Best thing you could do is love him & try not to make him fit the perfect Christian mold cause that would make him angry & rebellious. Everyone is wired differently. Prayers can soften his heart but I'd do more praying & being a loving person than talking to him or even about him behind his back cause what if he overheard you? Be a good example then he might want to grow closer to God. Don't know if that helps any or not?

 

[DogmaHunter]

My dad made it clear to all of us that when we graduated from high school, we were gone. We knew this and planned for it. My brother joined the Navy, I moved in with some other guys that were in the same boat. My dad did allow my sister to stay at home for a few months but she too moved in with her girlfriends when she started college. It was not that difficult as both of us had jobs and could support ourselves, especially sharing the rent costs with others. It was actually a relief to be free of the restraints of parental rules. Now we could party! And boy did we.

Living at my parents house while being a student did not prevent me from partying.
But it did allow me to save a nice budget together to start a life with my girlfriend without engaging in monster debt from day 1.

Honestly, I have to wonder about the dad who, in advance even, tells his kids that he'll kick them out no matter what...

I'm a dad myself today and not a hair on my body even THINKS about kicking out my son before he's actually ready to move on on his own.

As a dad, I want the best for my children. I don't see how kicking them out the second that the law no longer requires me to feed them, accomplishes that...

The very idea of forcing them to take up jobs while still in school, especially if I am financially perfectly capable of supporting them, sounds really strange and even a bit cruel in my head.

I see no point in doing so. Getting your degree is hard enough already. I don't see why I should make it even harder on them.

Now, if my kid turns out a lazy bastard that finishes school and then sits at home playing his xbox all day - that's another story.

 

[Murby]

My dad made it clear to all of us that when we graduated from high school, we were gone. We knew this and planned for it. My brother joined the Navy, I moved in with some other guys that were in the same boat. My dad did allow my sister to stay at home for a few months but she too moved in with her girlfriends when she started college. It was not that difficult as both of us had jobs and could support ourselves, especially sharing the rent costs with others. It was actually a relief to be free of the restraints of parental rules. Now we could party! And boy did we.

Unfortunately, based on your postings, I totally believe you.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Living at my parents house while being a student did not prevent me from partying.
But it did allow me to save a nice budget together to start a life with my girlfriend without engaging in monster debt from day 1.

Honestly, I have to wonder about the dad who, in advance even, tells his kids that he'll kick them out no matter what...

I'm a dad myself today and not a hair on my body even THINKS about kicking out my son before he's actually ready to move on on his own.

As a dad, I want the best for my children. I don't see how kicking them out the second that the law no longer requires me to feed them, accomplishes that...

The very idea of forcing them to take up jobs while still in school, especially if I am financially perfectly capable of supporting them, sounds really strange and even a bit cruel in my head.

I see no point in doing so. Getting your degree is hard enough already. I don't see why I should make it even harder on them.

Now, if my kid turns out a lazy bastard that finishes school and then sits at home playing his xbox all day - that's another story.

My experience was not uncommon back in the day.

 

[DogmaHunter]

That was not uncommon back in the day.

I get that, but times have changed.
Today, in the western world anyway, most people don't start working at 18 (or even sooner).
At 18, you go to college or university. At 21-22, you either graduate or specialise futher, which takes you well into your twenties before you actually start thinking about a carreer.

"adult life" has shifted. And it shows in every scope of life.
People are older today when they leave the house, start working, get married, get children...

In our western society, you make it harder on your kids then it needs to be if you expect them to leave at 18.

That's my take on it, anyway. It's also what I observe around me.

 

[Murby]

My experience was not uncommon back in the day.

In your defense, I would tend to agree that is a valid point.

 

[Godiswithus(eternally)]

Are you sure he wasn't victimized? He's at about the right age where a lot of them came forward.. Perhaps a bit of probing (no pun intended! LOL) into what's going on with him would help. Maybe start a conversation that has nothing to do with religion and SLOOOOOOWLY work into it just to see where he goes.


My apologies if what I wrote came across that way. That said, it is a well known fact that many scientists give up all religion as their education enlightens them to the universe we live in. I started studying cosmology and astrophysics as a hobby when I was in my teenage years and it pretty much rubbed out any traces of my catholic upbringing. That was my only point.. it might just be a natural progression of his accumulation of a specific type of knowledge. Its a common thing, but my comment was not, in any way, meant to imply anything regarding church people and educational levels.


Does he have a girlfriend? Has he ever had a girlfriend? And you don't have to answer this one but I'm going to throw it out there and you'll understand why.. Have you ever caught him with heterosexual porn?
Perhaps he's gay and knows that your deeply religious family might reject him for it?

I have to say, I don't think the job thing is it and here's why.. He has a roof over his head and it doesn't seem like he has any meaningful responsibilities like taking care of a family of his own.. I don't hear any mention of your parents threatening to kick him out over years past either.. I don't think the job thing is it.. That's the kind of thing that g.ets middle aged men with children and families depressed, not twenty something kids living at home. (generally speaking)

Big questions here.. Girlfriend? Porn? Ever have a girlfriend that lasted?
Please don't get upset at these questions, personally I could care less what someone's sexual orientation is, but I know that religious folks do care and find it offensive.. so.. in light of that, I think its a valid concern even if its just looking for a needle in a haystack type of idea.

Aww its okay, and that's pretty intresting topics you studied as a teenager. It's okay ill answer the questions you asked, no he hasn't got a gf at the moment, but he has in the past. I don't really know about the porn because we have our privacy when it comes to our laptops, I dont really ask him. And about his sexual orientation, I've always believed he was straight because he talks about girls he likes to me and has had previous gfs but who knows it could b a cover up, but I doubt he would feel the need to get a gf to cover it up, we r Caribbean so tend to get married quite late, like around 30 in our family so we're not pressured to get married at all. Even if he was I think he could have told me in confidence, probably not my parents tho.

 

[Godiswithus(eternally)]

Thanks for considering my thoughts!


You said your brother was 24, right?
To be honest, I am also wondering why parents wouldn´t trust and expect their 24yo son to solve his issues without their help.

Ok. Maybe this is at least part of the problem: As an adult, he perceives unasked for attempts and advice as overstepping his personal boundaries, and possibly as disrespectful to his autonomy?


In my experience, people rarely are responsive to such criticism. They tend to get defensive (and, actually, I can understand why that is). I have come to find it more productive to ask them questions, to show them my interest, to search for the good intentions behind seemingly destructive behaviours.

A family is a complex system. Many (known and unknown, conscious and unconscious) themes and issues are intertwined and interdependent.
The behaviours that the members of the system display aren´t contextless - they are reactions towards behaviours of the other members and towards the paradigms of the system, and (oftentime surprisingly) even seemingly destructive behaviours turn out to actually be (more or less successful) attempts at stabilizing the system, while at the same time attempts at taking care of one´s individual well-being and existential needs. To reconcile these tasks simultaneously can be a great challenge (and sometimes the resulting strategies and behaviours appear to be downright absurd).

This is just one wild hypothesis (so take it with a grain of salt, it´s meant to be an illustrating example rather than my actual guess):

There is a reason why a man at the age of 24, lives still with his parents. There is a reason why he hasn´t moved out, and there is a reason why your parents haven´t yet asked him to move out. Both parties have an open or hidden benefit from this situation (or else they would have changed it). Thus, stability of the system demands them to maintain this state of affairs.
Of course, this situation keeps the young man in an inadequate child-like status, and his parents in an equally inadequate status of feeling responsible for him.
From the young man´s perspective, he can´t demand respect for his autonomy (because it´s destablilizing the system and threatening the hidden benefit of the parents), but neither can he remain like a needy obedient child (because that goes against his own need for growth, and also will earn him the reproach of being immature). Whatever he does, is "wrong". That´s exactly the situation in which a person will display irrational, absurd or paradox behaviour (e.g. verbalize his quest for autonomy in the behaviour and wordings of an immature child - he tries to reconcile the irreconcilable tasks which both are existentially important for him).
Of course, the parents are likely to display equally irrational behavours (because they are stuck in the same trap, vice versa).

Maybe this helps a little.

Yeah thanks this helps a lot, it's not the fact that my parents think he cant solve his issues at 24, but it's just trying to ask him how he's feeling about the situation.

 

[Godiswithus(eternally)]

It sounds as though your parents haven't respected his autonomy, his adulthood, and his individuality. No wonder he's unhappy.

Well I don't think they haven't respected it because they have never restricted him from anything as an adult, I think he just hasn't had a chance to find something that he really enjoys doing in life yet.

 

[Godiswithus(eternally)]

I wanted to draw attention to this. I find it quite stunning that you've even dabbled with this idea, when you simultaneously claim righteousness and honourable behaviour. You would advocate kicking him when he's down? For the incredibly minor crime of 'disrespect'? I wonder if your parents think the same way?

Maybe you all ought to be his champions, instead of his condemners. That means respecting his autonomy as an adult, and leaving religion out of it. If you insist on judging his responses to 'forced' religion, you're allowing your beliefs to destroy a family. Add this to the consideration of kicking him out, and you may be getting closer to a possible answer.

Add in the possibility he might be gay or have gender issues, or has a certain type of girlfriend, but feels your family is too conservative to cope with same, and it's easy to see how this scenario might have developed.

Please also remember that just because you survived a restrictive and conservative religious upbringing, it doesn't mean he has. I would venture to suggest that many don't.

Thanks for the