Van said:
Imblessed, I was quoting the NASB version of the passage in 1 Kings 19:18.
1 Kings 19:18 said:
"Yet I will leave 7000 in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal and every mouth that has not kissed him."
The choice is based on the demonstrated faith of the 7000 who have not worshipped Baal.
I happen to like Paul's interpretation of that passage over yours. And, Paul tells us that your interpretation would void grace and make Election based upon meritorious human works.
Van said:
My view makes sense, your view does not. God chose Christ before the foundation of the world, this is supported by several scriptures. Now then, scripture also says God chose us in Him from the foundation of the world. What that means is when Christ was chosen as the redeemer, generically everyone Christ would redeem was chosen. Not as individuals, but as a kind of people, believers in Him.
Why does this make more sense that foreseen individuals? Because we had not been created yet. Now in James 2:5 we see God choosing the poor - folks that love Him, which says God makes His choice of individuals when they are alive. So in order for both verses to be true, God's choice of us in Him must be generic.
Sophistry, nothing more and nothing less. It matters not that we had not yet been created. God is not prevented from Electing individuals unless he simply doesn't know which individuals are going to choose him. In that case, you are nothing but an Open Theist who denies God's Omniscience.
You are not an Open Theist, are you?
Anyway, outside of what has been widely condemned as a heresy in the church, the Lord actually foreknows the ends of creation, from first moment until the last moment of this earth, and beyond into the day of eternity. Given that the Lord knows all things before the first word of creation was spoken, it is impossible for the Lord to NOT have foreseen individuals.
The rest of your corporate election error is directly refuted by the passage in question. The 7000 were clearly Elected as individuals, not corporately. In fact, there is not a single verse which teaches this fantasy corporate election. You have to read that idea into the passage you referenced. We were chosen. God chose us. The passage doesn't say "God choose Christ," which is how you are reading the verse. And, unless you wish to take the route of the Open Theist error, God knew who we were.
Anyway, I suggest that you get a Omniscience of God 101 manual and consult it for the orthodox view of God's Omniscience.
Van said:
A couple of clarifications. I did not say God choose them because of what they did. I think I said this: "God choice was based on the demonstrated faith of the 7000."
Again, you have found a difference without any distinction. Their "demonstrated faith" is what they did. The very definition of what it means to demonstrate is by actions, i.e. what they did. You are arguing with yourself here. The 7000 demonstrated their faith by what they did. Therefore, there is no escaping that you are teaching that God choose them because of what they did, their OUTWARD actions. That, my friend is a meritorious human work.
The very language of the passage itself proves what I am saying. Those whom God reserved did not bow (an action verb if you haven't figured it out) the knee to Baal. Anyway, you are free to continue to argue against yourself if you like. I'll just turn you back around and send you back into the ring against yourself.
Oh, before I go, Van, it is "grace through faith," not "grace plus faith."