Show Me The Crocoduck!!

[corvus_corax]

That's the point I'm making with these guys.

They prompt us to go out and kill witches, but they themselves wouldn't dare.

In fact, if you pin them down and get an honest answer from them, most (if not all) will probably admit that they don't even believe in witches.

And witch hunting is just scratching the surface --- I'm not even mentioning the crusades.

~Ahem~
Not ALL of us non-Christians feel that Christians "should" (based on historical precedent) go out and burn witches.

So please don't say an an-inclusive "they" or "them".

I know witches. Heck, my best friend (outside of my wife and son) is one. Do I think that Christians should kill her based on an Old Testament bit of scripture?
Do I think Christians are "obligated" or "commanded" to kill witches?


Heck no.
To do so would be MOST un-Christian.
Such an action would be in spite of the New Testament, instead of in respect to it (to paraphrase something you've said over and over again)

 

[corvus_corax]

The odd thing is some people even today understand there are witches, in the sense some people state they are witches but show them a Crocoduck.

And what do witches have to do with the Christian "evolution is pwned" idea of the crocoduck"?
I think you misunderstand the OP.
If you think modern or ancient witches have anything to do with the some Christians idea of a crocoduck, then you are sadly not only misunderstood the OP, but perhaps.....oh, never mind

 

[Norbert L]

It's Platypus

Yes, Scientific Theory, which is the best current model explaining what we observe.

Bull
Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.
Often, the evidence at hand (historical, forensic, etc) demonstrates eyewitnesses to be incorrect.



Yes we will die
But evolution is a fact, not just a theory.
It is as simple as that


Actually, in the "Origins theology" forum, the ToE is quite contested.
Not that I can actually post there
~sigh~

Whereas some witnesses are totally reliable. Much like hammering several nails into board. Just because one bends does not mean another will.

Will the test and the proof of science be seen, will the faith in the theory of evolution die within society? Will the big bang also die a similiar death? Ask yourself will the faith in science evolve into something greater or will it be like wisdom of previous civilizations and only go extinct as well? The evolutionary model itself asks of its' propenants to understand and factor in great and vast periods of time.

Just because there is an immense amount of scientific knowledge which can be translated into gagets where only a minority of the entire world populace shares in on a daily basis, is that enough insurance all people should take confidence in? Is it on a track to continue to pay out eventually to all mankind? I would say it hasn't been working, it only deceptively seems to be working even within those who share in it.

You keep stating "what is not being said" regarding the bible.
What, exactly, are you talking about?


It means you will not allow one to live, or have life.

Think outside the box, the Paradigm shift.

Well in the "dispensation" of the Old Testament, the rules were much different, weren't they?
Kinda like eating shrimp or wearing clothing made up of multiple fibers.

You cannot "interpret" the morality of the book of Exodus through your "modern" sensibilities.
Quit trying

There are modern sensiblities then there are "eternal" sensiblities. Will science overcome the ideas within the bible from Genesis to Revelation?

Think about it, some say the crocoduck says no and others believe it says yes but ultimately who wins? It can be said in this modern age, science has been given an opportunity now to show beyond a reasonable doubt to demonstrate it's superiority to all mankind and the future generations:

"Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me: "Would you indeed annul My judgment? Would you condemn Me that you may be justified? Have you an arm like God? Or can you thunder with a voice like His? Then adorn yourself with majesty and splendor, And array yourself with glory and beauty. Disperse the rage of your wrath; Look on everyone who is proud, and humble him. Look on everyone who is proud, and bring him low; Tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together, Bind their faces in hidden darkness. Then I will also confess to you That your own right hand can save you." (Job 40:7-14)

I'm of the opinion within society the physical and life sciences are not meeting the challenges of the world today, that they too like other civilzations in the past will also die out like the evolutionary model predicts. That one day all people will totally and actually comprehend the crocoduck because they have become "the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him," (Col 3:10).

 

[corvus_corax]

Whereas some witnesses are totally reliable. Much like hammering several nails into board. Just because one bends does not mean another will.

The reliability of eyewitnesses has NOTHING to do with whether or not they will "bend"
It has to do with the fallibility of human memory.


Jeez, did you even read what I wrote?

Will the test and the proof of science be seen, will the faith in the theory of evolution die within society? Will the big bang also die a similiar death? Ask yourself will the faith in science evolve into something greater or will it be like wisdom of previous civilizations and only go extinct as well? The evolutionary model itself asks of its' propenants to understand and factor in great and vast periods of time.

Will the test and the proof of your personal interpretation of deity be seen, will the faith in Christianity die within society? Will the your personal interpretation of the bible also die a similar death? Ask yourself will the faith in your personal interpretation of the bible evolve into something greater or will it be like wisdom of previous civilizations and only go extinct as well? The biblical model itself asks of its' propenants to understand and factor in great and vast periods of time.

Think outside the box, the Paradigm shift.

Gee, thanks for not even addressing the part of my post you responded to here.

There are modern sensiblities then there are "eternal" sensiblities.

Sure, I'm willing to accept that.
But you pointedly said "modern" regarding killing witches.
And, quite frankly, not allowing a witch to live was a MUCH different POV back during the days of the Exodus story than you have now.
As were the sensibilities of the Israelites regarding the Amalekite infants.

Will science overcome the ideas within the bible from Genesis to Revelation?

Maybe, maybe not
So far, though, so good

I'm of the opinion within society the physical and life sciences are not meeting the challenges of the world today

Yeah, you're right
The physical and life sciences didn't meet the challenge of polio.
They aren't up to meeting the challenge of various other diseases.
Only Jesus can treat bubonic plague...Oh wait
Yeah, the physical sciences aren't up to the challenge of world wide communication (which you and I are using right now)
The physical and life sciences aren't up to the challenge of ...oh, never mind.
The P&L sciences are meeting the challenges of the world today than just simply believing in some deity.

That one day all people will totally and actually comprehend the crocoduck because they have become "the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him," (Col 3:10).

If Corinthians is correct, then creationists will realize how idiotic their idea of a crocoduck was.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Split Rock Show Me The Crocoduck!

Ornithorhynchus anatinus:
​

Ornithorhynchus anatinus:


Well damn, i better get my bible and start get back to church, praise to go- ...wait a minute, i see what you did there xD

Wonder what hebrew word that would be under

 

[Split Rock]

Hi Norbert, sorry I'm a little late in responding to these posts.

Actually it is an example of a modern alive today type of mammal with reptilian characteristis. It also supports the idea that God can create and do as He pleases.

If that were the case, then we would see chimeras that evolutiuon could not explain. For example, a true intermediate between birds and mammals (as many creationists mistakingly thing the platypus is), or a frog with hair, or a whale with feathers, etc. So, in a sense, its what we don't find that provides such strong support for common descent.

It should be concidered there is still someone today that knows all the genetic sequences and is able to reproduce them at his will. Is it not true that the scientific communtity would look down upon anyone withholding information? Perhaps that is a basis why most of that community looks down upon God?

I'm really not sure what you are implying, or why.

If a person wants to look at scripture and who is a sciencetist should also take note of what it doesn't say.

There is a difference between "not suffer a witch to live" and thou shalt judge a witch and then execute and kill the witch

There is a difference between "to live" and 'to die' and 'to kill'. In more modern thought it is about "excommunication" or politically it is about being "exiled" apart from the community.

This really sounds like semantics to me. "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live," certainly means to kill them. I do not see how "not suffer to live," could possibly be translated as to exile from teh community. Certainly, Christians translated it as I suggest for centuries.

Objective is the platipus, here and now. Theory is how it got here. Only someone billions of years old would be able to testify to the facts (fossil record) and affirm how these things developed. In other words they would not be speaking theory, they would be speaking facts.

Common descent is inferred from the facts and the theory of evolution explains those facts. The past leaves its mark on the present. Not only in our own bodies and genetic code, but in the geological record.

Would those facts disprove the theory of evolution or prove them? Evolutionists say yes and Creationists say no. It is a deadlock, after all Darwin died, so will you and I and continuing generations go through that one observable fact. You die so will I.

There are many ways that the theory of evolution could be disproven, but it never has. Maybe in the future, it will... but that woud seem unlikely, from what we know today. Many specific aspects of creationism have already been disproven (some going back to the nineteeth century, such as The Flood), while other aspects cannot be tested at all.

Interpretation... well if you ever visit the Christian specific forums you should begin to understand "evolution" is one of the least controversial areas under discussion. Just click on my name look up posts and you will see a lot of this going on ->

OK

But for sciencetists I believe and hope they are actually more perceptive in the area of what is being said compared to what is not being said within scriptures.

As a scientist, the scriptures are pretty much irrelevent. As a debater here, I find it strange that individual interpretations of scripture are claimed to be "The Inerrant Word of God."

Do you really believe that the scripture, Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." means you should kill witches?

Of course. So have most Christians for centuries.

 

[BananaSlug]

I see where you are coming from in this case.
However, this discussion regarding burning witches (or killing them via any other method) is clear cut.
This statement was not given to Christians.
And the Christians who did burn/hang/stab/shoot/stone witches were doing it (to use AV's phrase) in spite of the New Testament, not because of it.

In this case, despite how often I disagree with AV (and his often "odd" interpretations IMO), this is clear cut.
Split Rock is incorrect.
AV1611VET is correct.

That's all I was pointing out.
Just that simple, nothing more.

19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:19

 

[Split Rock]

Sorry this is really late... You can thank AVET for bringing me back to this thread.

~Ahem~
Excuse my interruption here, but.....


....that was not addressed to Christians.


AV has you here (sorry)

ETA- as a matter of fact the only time that witchcraft is mentioned in the 1611 KJV New Testament is in the book of Galatians, and there is no command (or even suggestion) to burn, hang, shoot, stab, stone or otherwise kill one practicing witchcraft.
Like AV has stated in the past, the "witch burnings" of times past by Christians was done in spite of the teachings of Jesus, not because of them.
As much as I disagree with AV on nearly everything, he is correct here.

If you are claiming that the Old Testament command to kill witches is not addressed to Christians, then I would submit that none of it is addressed to Christians, including the 10 Commandments. Were the Witch Burnings done inspite of Jesus' teachings? Sure. But Jesus' teachings were quite different from that of the OT god. That is a big reason why I don't believe Jesus and the OT god are one in the same. AVET handles that issue with "Dispensations," but I don't find that argument convincing.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Sorry this is really late... You can thank AVET for bringing me back to this thread.
.

Better late than never

24th February 2010, 12:31 PM

 

[AV1611VET]

AVET handles that issue with "Dispensations," but I don't find that argument convincing.

Then I'll issue you the same challenge as I did MoonLancer and Cabal:

I have a better idea: you show me.

In fact, MoonLancer, you bring me a real witch --- a real one --- along with the Scripture admonition for Christians to burn her, along with a judge's order after she got a fair trial, and I'll light the fire myself.

Fair enough?

If you can't --- how about manning up and admit that you and your cronies are wrong?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Split Rock AVET handles that issue with "Dispensations," but I don't find that argument convincing.

Interesting.
Did you know there is a board that is discussed on?

http://www.christianforums.com/f424/
Dispensationalism

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/articles/subcats.asp?id=9%7C21

.........Dispensationalism has a pervasive influence not only extensively, but also intensively. It is usually the case that those who embrace its teachings as a system are affected in almost every area of their theological thinking.

So pervasive is its effect on those who have become its pupils, that even those who have come to see the error of its basic presuppositions testify that dispensational cobwebs have remained in their thinking for a long time after the initial sweeping took place. My own experience bears witness to the truth of what I say.............

 

[Targ]

LOL, just been watching the video in the OP. The response of the RRS to Cameron's crockoduck is hilarious ... "oh god no, no, *facepalm*" ... brilliant

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

LOL, just been watching the video in the OP. The response of the RRS to Cameron's crockoduck is hilarious ... "oh god no, no, *facepalm*" ... brilliant

That Kirk Cameron is a total nutter.

Raving borderline retarded lunatics like Cameron give the normal rational religious folks a bad name.

 

[Split Rock]

Then I'll issue you the same challenge as I did MoonLancer and Cabal:

There aren't any witches (according to the biblical definition) and there never were any. Your holy book makes other claims. Your holy book is wrong. Done.

 

[AV1611VET]

There aren't any witches (according to the biblical definition) and there never were any. Your holy book makes other claims. Your holy book is wrong. Done.

Then why are we encouraged to do so, sometimes at the risk of incurring the 'hypocrite' moniker if we choose otherwise?

 

[MoonLancer]

Then I'll issue you the same challenge as I did MoonLancer and Cabal:

I don't need to provide real a real witch. Why? Christians have already burned what they consider a witch? What do Christians consider a witch? someone they proclaim to be a witch.

If i lived in the 1500s i would likely be considered a witch.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't need to provide real a real witch.

Good -- then you won't be wondering why Christians aren't out burning witches?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Did someone say crocoduck?!?

Behold... the coveted 2010 Golden Crocoduck Award.

YouTube - Golden Crocoduck awards 2010

 

[Split Rock]

Then why are we encouraged to do so, sometimes at the risk of incurring the 'hypocrite' moniker if we choose otherwise?

Because you claim there are or were real witches. And you claim that the Bible is historically 100% accurate and written as if by God's own hand. That's why.

 

[Split Rock]

Good -- then you won't be wondering why Christians aren't out burning witches?

We are wondering why you make such absurd and contradictory claims about scripture, not why you are not out burning witches right now.