Show me in Scripture

[Albion]

Usually when a person says tradition in the regards to religion they mean a body of "authoritative" teachings and rulings. What has been "passed down" [traditioned] in terms of dogma, doctrine, practice, and so on. The tradition of male priesthood in the Roman Catholic Church would be one example.

The "tradition" of a male priesthood in the RCC (and a bunch of other churches which DON'T value Tradition the way the RCC does) is not based upon Tradition. It's based upon Scripture and only confirmed by Tradition.

 

[Albion]

Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

Scripture is directing you to listen to GOD's SPIRIT! Not to read Scripture to obtain faith.

Uh, "by the word of God" means exactly that--Scripture. Scripture is called the word of God in the Bible.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

The "tradition" of a male priesthood in the RCC (and a bunch of other churches which DON'T value Tradition the way the RCC does) is not based upon Tradition. It's based upon Scripture and only confirmed by Tradition.

It does say overseers are to " be the husband of one wife" in the Bible. This may very well imply what you saying here. That doesn't change the fact that it's a tradition held to by the Catholic Church though.

 

[Nanopants]

No it isn't! Jesus is called, THE WORD OF GOD

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and [they] are life. -Jhn 6:63

But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. -Jhn 6:68

You're right. Christ is the Word, but the words of the Gospel are the necessary medium of transmission for us.

 

[fwiwwl]

Uh, "by the word of God" means exactly that--Scripture. Scripture is called the word of God in the Bible.

[FONT=&quot]"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart[/FONT]"

Word, does this mean scripture or Jesus?

Read on:

"Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."

 

[Albion]

No it isn't! Jesus is called, THE WORD OF GOD

Yes, it is. In addition, Jesus is also called the Word, and he's once called the Word of God. I am sure that you can chew gum and walk straight at the same time, so I'm also confident that you can handle words that are used to mean one thing at one time and another at another time.

(It's much like the word deacon that means, literally, servant. We were talking about that also on this thread. Are there different kinds of servants doing different tasks? Yes, and that's the difference between a deacon and a deaconess--totally different roles but they both serve the needs and people of the congregation.)

 

[Albion]

[FONT=&quot]"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart[/FONT]"

Word, does this mean scripture or Jesus?

Read my answer in the last post before this one. Also note that we've just had someone else post a verse in which there is no question but that the phrase (word of God) is meaning the Holy Scriptures. "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"

 

[fwiwwl]

Yes, it is. In addition, Jesus is also called the Word, and he's once called the Word of God. I am sure that you can chew gum and walk straight at the same time, so I'm also confident that you can handle words that are used to mean one thing at one time and another at another time.

(It's much like the word deacon that means, literally, servant. We were talking about that also on this thread. Are there different kinds of servants doing different tasks? Yes, and that's the difference between a deacon and a deaconess--totally different roles but they both serve the needs and people of the congregation.)

You,re back-peddling! You said, "Uh, "by the word of God" means exactly that--Scripture. Scripture is called the word of God in the Bible."

 

[Albion]

It does say overseers are to " be the husband of one wife" in the Bible. This may very well imply what you saying here. That doesn't change the fact that it's a tradition held to by the Catholic Church though.

But it's not "Sacred Tradition" as was defined earlier on this thread, as I recall. It's a traditional belief in the sense of having been held throughout the centuries, but it is not a position held in the Church by consensus without the testimony of the Scriptures. That's what Tradition would mean.

Consult the Church if in doubt; it will advise you of the Bible's information that indicates an all-male priesthood. And the Protestant churches which agree don't have any sympathy for making up docrrines through "Holy Tradition" at all. They are Sola Scriptura churches.

 

[whitetiger1]

In response to another thread that was recently closed, can anyone show me in scripture where it says scripture alone is not enough? Please show me where scriptures say we need anything else.

God bless

Can you show from Scripture that we are to only rely on it alone and that Christians were wrong for the first 1500 years for not using the Bible alone. No one has be able to yet.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Can you show from Scripture that we are to only rely on it alone and that Christians were wrong for the first 1500 years for not using the Bible alone. No one has be able to yet.

Wow! Really?

 

[Albion]

You,re back-peddling! You said, "Uh, "by the word of God" means exactly that--Scripture. Scripture is called the word of God in the Bible."

What's your point?. Yes, that verse calls scripture the "word of God." And it's not the only one.

Of course, Jesus is also called the word (sometimes capitalized) of God, in Revelation.

I don't see why this should disturb anyone.

 

[Albion]

Can you show from Scripture that we are to only rely on it alone and that Christians were wrong for the first 1500 years for not using the Bible alone. No one has be able to yet.

I think we owe it to the questioner not to change the topic of his thread. Where in scripture does it tell us not to consider Scripture sufficient?

 

[christianmomof3]

Uh, "by the word of God" means exactly that--Scripture. Scripture is called the word of God in the Bible.

Actually, Romans 10:17 - the verse referred to uses the word "rhema" which refers to the spoken word of God - not logos, which would refer to the written words.

And, when the New Testament writings refer to "scripture", they are not referring to themselves because those authors did not consider that they were writing scripture, they were referring to the Old Testament writings, which was the only writings that were considered "scripture" at that time.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

, but it is not a position held in the Church by consensus without the testimony of the Scriptures. That's what Tradition would mean

.

I would view the term tradition in a larger sense than that. The highlighted criteria wouldn't be necessary really. The Bible itself could even be thought of as THE authoritative tradition for many Christians. Traditions are not always oral they also come in the form of written scriptures.

 

[Albion]

Actually, Romans 10:17 - the verse referred to uses the word "rhema" which refers to the spoken word of God - not logos, which would refer to the written words.

And, when the New Testament writings refer to "scripture", they are not referring to themselves because those authors did not consider that they were writing scripture, they were referring to the Old Testament writings, which was the only writings that were considered "scripture" at that time.

But of course they could not have in mind books yet unwritten. However, they did testify--infallibly, as God inspired them to do--about Scripture in general, not identifying some inspired writings and excluding others. The church has accepted a certain number of books as divine revelation, so either we accept the Bible as inspired and God-given or we do not. There is the logical possibility that it's all myth and just the musings of some old Jews who pretended to be guided by God. If, however, we are Christians, we must accept all as inspired books and that includes all of the New Testament which is included in the material referred to by those authors.

It's like the court saying that all children of a divorce are entitled to child support payments. If another child is born shortly after the divorce is finalized, you can bet that he's covered because he's part of the group that's already been defined.

 

[Hentenza]

And, when the New Testament writings refer to "scripture", they are not referring to themselves because those authors did not consider that they were writing scripture, they were referring to the Old Testament writings, which was the only writings that were considered "scripture" at that time.

How would you know that?

 

[whitetiger1]

I think we owe it to the questioner not to change the topic of his thread. Where in scripture does it tell us not to consider Scripture sufficient?

That's not what he ask so you are just as guilty of taking the thread down a rabbit trail. The answer is no where in Scripture does it say to use it alone but to answer his question Paul says to use Tradition not just Scripture

 

[Albion]

That's not what he ask so you are just as guilty of taking the thread down a rabbit trail. The answer is no where in Scripture does it say to use it alone but to answer his question Paul says to use Tradition not just Scripture

That's another thread no matter how much you want to change the subject. This one asks where, if anywhere, Scripture says to use something other than Scripture. I think it's a reasonable question. If it's not to be found, we know that all the crutches that people like to lean on in preference to Scripture, whether tradition, custom, direct conversation with God, ersatz prophesy, intuition, science...whatever, are wrong to use in that way.

 

[whitetiger1]

And I answered, much better than you guys ever answered my question