Shouldn't God's eternal love mean hell can't exist?

[blueyedlion]

Hi guys, im a christian with some views i wish to share here and get some great feed back from this community.

My question is - how do you reconcile god as ever-loving and still have a hell? i find hell contradicts the very notion of a god that loves all unconditionally for all time and yet still has a place for you where he doesn't love you.

I believe god is embracing, and hell’s definition is the absence of God or a lack of love for God, and that cant exist because god is never absent and is never not loving you. So how does hell make sense to you?

 

[Sketcher]

I don't think the Bible teaches that God is all-loving. He's certainly more loving than I could ever be, and he what Jesus did for people that hated him really shows a love that I don't think anyone can compete with, especially when you take into account his holiness and how evil sin is, no matter how desensitized we are to it. But all-loving? No, God hated some people.

Furthermore, God respects the free will of people. He will not force people to believe in him or love him or obey him. Not everyone will love him, so he naturally will not force them to be in Heaven with him. Hence, there is the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matt. 8:12, 22:13, and 25:30)

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I wont be threatening anyone with eternal damnation any time soon.
But I wonder what happens to guys like Hitler and Stalin on Judgement day. Hard to forgive those monsters. Are some monsters unredeemable? That is the question.
But of course once we start comparing ourselves to others, we get in trouble. God wants us to focus just on our own salvation rather than judge others.
My guess is most of us get a second chance to transform or polish up, after Judgement Day. Maybe even a third chance. I'm only going on the mercy God showed the nation of Israel in the Old Testament.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hi guys, im a christian with some views i wish to share here and get some great feed back from this community.

My question is - how do you reconcile god as ever-loving and still have a hell? i find hell contradicts the very notion of a god that loves all unconditionally for all time and yet still has a place for you where he doesn't love you.

I believe god is embracing, and hell’s definition is the absence of God or a lack of love for God, and that cant exist because god is never absent and is never not loving you. So how does hell make sense to you?

It does make sense because one of God's attributes is Justice. The love of God is shown that He gave His only Son to take the punishment of Hell from all those who accept Him as Saviour. The justice of God is shown by the consequences of rejecting Christ.
Just think that if our societies were based on "love" without any justice for law-breaking. Our societies would break down. Do you think that those evil people who nailed Jesus to Cross should get away with that without some kind of justice meted out to them? Does anyone want to share heaven with evil men who rape innocent women, and those in ISIS who have beheaded innocent men who were in the wrong place at the wrong time? That would not be justice for me. What if some low-life raped your daughter? Would you want them to get away with that and would you love them enough for them to move in next door to your home? Wouldn't you want them to be caught, tried, and sent to prison for 99 years? I would. Hell is God's prison house of eternity. Rebellion against God and rejection of Christ has a sentence of eternity in God's prison house. That is God's of loving those who have embraced Christ more than those who have thrown His great love back in His face. This is why Hell makes sense to me.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

There seems a fine line between justice and revenge.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

It does make sense because one of God's attributes is Justice. The love of God is shown that He gave His only Son to take the punishment of Hell from all those who accept Him as Saviour. The justice of God is shown by the consequences of rejecting Christ.
Just think that if our societies were based on "love" without any justice for law-breaking. Our societies would break down. Do you think that those evil people who nailed Jesus to Cross should get away with that without some kind of justice meted out to them? Does anyone want to share heaven with evil men who rape innocent women, and those in ISIS who have beheaded innocent men who were in the wrong place at the wrong time? That would not be justice for me. What if some low-life raped your daughter? Would you want them to get away with that and would you love them enough for them to move in next door to your home? Wouldn't you want them to be caught, tried, and sent to prison for 99 years? I would. Hell is God's prison house of eternity. Rebellion against God and rejection of Christ has a sentence of eternity in God's prison house. That is God's of loving those who have embraced Christ more than those who have thrown His great love back in His face. This is why Hell makes sense to me.

I think there is a more sinister evil in the world. Hiding behind 'respectable" suits and letting others do the dirty work. Look at the Catholic priests who got away with child molestation all those years for instance. If anyone's going to suffer a Hell, they will.

 

[Rajni]

I don't think the Bible teaches that God is all-loving.

It goes beyond that; it teaches that He is Love itself.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think there is a more sinister evil in the world. Hiding behind 'respectable" suits and letting others do the dirty work. Look at the Catholic priests who got away with child molestation all those years for instance. If anyone's going to suffer a Hell, they will.

I think that when everyone who is going to stand in the great judgment (which genuine believers will avoid because they have judged themselves already and have embraced Christ as Saviour), the basis for judgment will be on their attitude to Christ. Their sins may be brought up as evidence against them, but the deciding factor will be whether their names are in the Book of Life, and that will depend on what they did with Christ when the gospel was presented to them.

 

[blueyedlion]

I don't think the Bible teaches that God is all-loving. He's certainly more loving than I could ever be, and he what Jesus did for people that hated him really shows a love that I don't think anyone can compete with, especially when you take into account his holiness and how evil sin is, no matter how desensitized we are to it. But all-loving? No, God hated some people.

Furthermore, God respects the free will of people. He will not force people to believe in him or love him or obey him. Not everyone will love him, so he naturally will not force them to be in Heaven with him. Hence, there is the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matt. 8:12, 22:13, and 25:30)

God created everyone and everything, so how can god hate his own creation? It's not like god didnt know what he was creating...god knows all. So i think you still haven't really thought about this well, because as you even stated; god loves us unconditionally "He will not force people to believe in him or love him or obey him." so god can't on one hand love us in full unconditionally and still at the same time not love us and send us to some hell.

 

[blueyedlion]

I wont be threatening anyone with eternal damnation any time soon.
But I wonder what happens to guys like Hitler and Stalin on Judgement day. Hard to forgive those monsters. Are some monsters unredeemable? That is the question.
But of course once we start comparing ourselves to others, we get in trouble. God wants us to focus just on our own salvation rather than judge others.
My guess is most of us get a second chance to transform or polish up, after Judgement Day. Maybe even a third chance. I'm only going on the mercy God showed the nation of Israel in the Old Testament.

I would imagine that the evil on earth is done with the non judgemental understanding from god that what has transpired, has been done by people like Hitler and Stalin because these types of people were raised within an unloving family and in a larger extent an unloving social environment. Because every baby is born a blank slate, it's only the unfortunate circumstances of the environment that may be unloving that will foster the evil in people.

When a person leaves a life on earth, im sure all is forgiven in heaven because they were simply a product of the societal issues they were born into. What do you think?

 

[Sketcher]

It goes beyond that; it teaches that He is Love itself.

True, that he is love (1 John 4:8). It is also true that he hated Esau (Romans 9:13).

God created everyone and everything, so how can god hate his own creation? It's not like god didnt know what he was creating...god knows all. So i think you still haven't really thought about this well, because as you even stated; god loves us unconditionally "He will not force people to believe in him or love him or obey him." so god can't on one hand love us in full unconditionally and still at the same time not love us and send us to some hell.

How can God hate his own creation? Those in Heaven will be able to ask him. As for his unconditional love, please cite Scripture that clearly teaches that he truly unconditionally and infinitely loves everyone.

Personally, I believe that it's God's loss more than mine or any family member's when he condemns someone to Hell. Jesus, God the Son, died on a cross for them, knowing how many hairs were on their head. I don't believe I could ever do that. He has quite a bit more riding on the fate of those who do not choose his amnesty plan for sin than I could ever imagine. Yet, it is clear that he will be sending many wicked people to Hell. Ultimately, God created that whole system, and it cost him something. I don't understand his reasons for his great love or his great punishment in view of that great love (or vice versa) but I acknowledge it all.

 

[blueyedlion]

True, that he is love (1 John 4:8). It is also true that he hated Esau (Romans 9:13).


How can God hate his own creation? Those in Heaven will be able to ask him. As for his unconditional love, please cite Scripture that clearly teaches that he truly unconditionally and infinitely loves everyone.

Personally, I believe that it's God's loss more than mine or any family member's when he condemns someone to Hell. Jesus, God the Son, died on a cross for them, knowing how many hairs were on their head. I don't believe I could ever do that. He has quite a bit more riding on the fate of those who do not choose his amnesty plan for sin than I could ever imagine. Yet, it is clear that he will be sending many wicked people to Hell. Ultimately, God created that whole system, and it cost him something. I don't understand his reasons for his great love or his great punishment in view of that great love (or vice versa) but I acknowledge it all.

I'm sure you are aware that when you claim god gives us free will, that claim given is based on scripture. Free will implies we are free to do as we will, no judgement. No judgement is the same thing as no condition. non judgemental free will is the exact same thing is unconditional love.

And also - 1 Corinthians 10:13 - it's only natural to tempted into sin and its ok there's always another choice available (free to choose love), Galatians 5:31 - you are free to serve in love, Genesis 2:16-17 - judging is a sin (if god judges he is sinning)

 

[blueyedlion]

It does make sense because one of God's attributes is Justice. The love of God is shown that He gave His only Son to take the punishment of Hell from all those who accept Him as Saviour. The justice of God is shown by the consequences of rejecting Christ.
Just think that if our societies were based on "love" without any justice for law-breaking. Our societies would break down.

Can you please refer to scripture as to what god's justice is based on?

When you say rejecting Christ, christ is god in the flesh, and god IS love, as to say god and love are interchangeable. They're meant to mean the exact same thing. So when we reject christ, it is meant we are rejecting god's love in the way we see love in a physical way and rejecting it. For example, how we behave towards each other and onto ourselves lovingly, that is what is meant by Christ since it is by Christ's loving behavior that defines him. Believing in Christ is just meant to mean believing in love.

So the punishment of hell is meant to be a metaphorical, implying when you are not being within love, you are creating hell for yourself and in part some times others as well.

 

[Sketcher]

I'm sure you are aware that when you claim god gives us free will, that claim given is based on scripture. Free will implies we are free to do as we will, no judgement. No judgement is the same thing as no condition. non judgemental free will is the exact same thing is unconditional love.

No, it doesn't mean no judgment. Scripture is very clear that there will be a judgment. Freedom to do what you want doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of what you have done.

Genesis 2:16-17 - judging is a sin (if god judges he is sinning)

If you get that out of Genesis 2:16-17, then you have to say that God sinned, if not in that moment, then in Genesis 3:14-19. And if God sinned, then he is not holy. And if he is not holy, then according to the way you have defined love, he does not have to be all-loving.

 

[blueyedlion]

No, it doesn't mean no judgment. Scripture is very clear that there will be a judgment. Freedom to do what you want doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of what you have done.

Yes it does when you understand you are the result of your own consequences. you fall into your own sin/judgement. Your choices, your freedom. There is judgement yes, within yourself, which you create. And you will always feel the 'burn' of those consequences in your own hell because of how you treated others or yourself.

If you get that out of Genesis 2:16-17, then you have to say that God sinned, if not in that moment, then in Genesis 3:14-19. And if God sinned, then he is not holy. And if he is not holy, then according to the way you have defined love, he does not have to be all-loving.

"And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die." - you are free to eat from any garden meaning you are free to take what you wish from your environment, but if you take judgement from people deciding this person good and this person is bad, you will sin and create a horrible end to your life as a result of the constant judging lifestyle you've made. That's the meaning because there is no good and bad, just people deciding through god's unconditional love of free will whether they want to behave lovingly or not.

God only loves, he doesn't decide this person is good or bad, that's for the person unto themselves to decide and judge. Genesis 3:14-19. is simply saying, now that you have practiced judgement onto others, you will suffer from your own actions. Having to eat other animals to live is a judgement implying your life is more important than the other creations of god. So as you continue to judge, you will live in sin living a life style of judgement of everything around you. But what's being confused is not that god himself is making us like this, but us ourselves in our choices of judgement and the road goes on. That's all.

 

[Anguspure]

Hi guys, im a christian with some views i wish to share here and get some great feed back from this community.

My question is - how do you reconcile god as ever-loving and still have a hell? i find hell contradicts the very notion of a god that loves all unconditionally for all time and yet still has a place for you where he doesn't love you.

I believe god is embracing, and hell’s definition is the absence of God or a lack of love for God, and that cant exist because god is never absent and is never not loving you. So how does hell make sense to you?

Gods eternal Love means that all sin and death and everything that is irrevocably identified with these things will eventually be destroyed and all justice will be served.
The place of destruction for what were living things is given the name Hell.

 

[Anguspure]

It goes beyond that; it teaches that He is Love itself.

He is also the truth. Not that He has truth or speaks truth but that He is the Truth itself, which also makes sense when you think about it.

 

[Anguspure]

It does make sense because one of God's attributes is Justice. The love of God is shown that He gave His only Son to take the punishment of Hell from all those who accept Him as Saviour. The justice of God is shown by the consequences of rejecting Christ.
Just think that if our societies were based on "love" without any justice for law-breaking. Our societies would break down. Do you think that those evil people who nailed Jesus to Cross should get away with that without some kind of justice meted out to them? Does anyone want to share heaven with evil men who rape innocent women, and those in ISIS who have beheaded innocent men who were in the wrong place at the wrong time? That would not be justice for me. What if some low-life raped your daughter? Would you want them to get away with that and would you love them enough for them to move in next door to your home? Wouldn't you want them to be caught, tried, and sent to prison for 99 years? I would. Hell is God's prison house of eternity. Rebellion against God and rejection of Christ has a sentence of eternity in God's prison house. That is God's of loving those who have embraced Christ more than those who have thrown His great love back in His face. This is why Hell makes sense to me.

Not so much a prison as a grave. The wages of sin is death, remember. Not eternal life.

 

[Kyndelle Cooper]

God does love and He is love in the purest most unconditional way, God loves everyone because He created us. He hates the sin but not the sinner.

 

[FireDragon76]

True, that he is love (1 John 4:8). It is also true that he hated Esau (Romans 9:13).

That's a semitic expression, meaning that God preferred Jacob over Esau. Preference does not equal antipathy.