Should We Teach Creation As Science In Public Schools?

[Halbhh]

Just do a quick web search on the subject:

islam taught in public schools - Yahoo Search Results

This helpful page showed up
Teaching About Islam Hasn't Been Banned

It's ok to teach about Islam from a non believing analyzing view, apparently. I shudder to imagine Christianity taught about that way: like studying a dead thing, in the approach. A nonbelieving analysis, as if the subject is an out of date old belief, like Greek Mythology....

 

[coffee4u]

When I read the old testament I find holes in the story. When I read the New testament I find holes in the story. Especially in the first four books of the New testament it is apparently obvious that each of them tell their story from their point of view.

There are a lot of differences in each book of the first four books of the New testament. And any time you point those holes out to Christians they get mad. here is a fact the universe is billions of years old the Earth is billions of years old it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt it's one of the few things in science that can be proven. Does that make the Bible a bad book no. The Bible is a guide on having a relationship with God.

You are the one with 'Christian' to your name, perhaps you should change that since you think it is 'full of holes'.

It can't be proved. Man can use his calculations and tests and according to those dates a rock, but that assumes they have all the variables. They can't know this because no one was there.

Uranium–lead radiometric dating involves using uranium-235 or uranium-238 to date a substance's absolute age.

Here they are assuming that the decay rate they observe now is the same decay rate it's always been. That this is stable. Who says it was? People who weren't there, didn't see and don't know everything.

The next scenario is that perhaps the rocks are really are old, but that does not make the creation that old. The creation week occurs after the first 2 verses.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
It's possible the earth sat there for some time or it might have not. or as I said before this may have been before God created time. In which case all those calculations are chaff.

 

[HARK!]

This helpful page showed up
Teaching About Islam Hasn't Been Banned

It's ok to teach about Islam from a non believing analyzing view, apparently. I shudder to imagine Christianity taught about that way: like studying a dead thing, in the approach. A nonbelieving analysis, as if the subject is an out of date old belief, like Greek Mythology....

This one was on the same page. Did you miss this one?:

Lawsuit: Public school forced my child to convert to Islam ...

 

[MrsFoundit]

When I read the old testament I find holes in the story. When I read the New testament I find holes in the story. Especially in the first four books of the New testament it is apparently obvious that each of them tell their story from their point of view.

I fail to see how this is possible...unless you regard some other thing as the full story with which to compare?

There are a lot of differences in each book of the first four books of the New testament. And any time you point those holes out to Christians they get mad.

I am quite familiar with various perspectives on the Bible, but your choice of words seems odd for a believer.

here is a fact the universe is billions of years old the Earth is billions of years old it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt it's one of the few things in science that can be proven.

There is no proof that time was not created, and plenty of people woulds say science does not provide either proof or facts, not all of them Christians, or even religious.

Does that make the Bible a bad book no. The Bible is a guide on having a relationship with God.

Is a guide on having a relationship with God, which is full of holes in the story, and contradictions - "differences" fit for purpose?

 

[Halbhh]

This one was on the same page. Did you miss this one?:

Lawsuit: Public school forced my child to convert to Islam ...

If some extremely unusual teacher somewhere actually did try to coerce kids to convert, then.....

...think about it....

...that's a reason to make news laws to prevent any teaching of religion in public schools.

See? People in the U.S. have been Christian without needing to learn about it by force in a public school, and it worked very well. If we try to start teaching religion in public schools, it's like...admitting you don't want to spread the gospel in the traditional way.

Well, we have no excuse. We are to spread the gospel in the traditional way. The way that always has worked, and is the way Christ says to do.

 

[HARK!]

If some extremely unusual teacher somewhere actually did try to coerce kids to convert, then.....

...think about it....

...that's a reason to make news laws to prevent any teaching of religion in public schools.

See? People in the U.S. have been Christian without needing to learn about it by force in a public school, and it worked very well. If we try to start teaching religion in public schools, it's like...admitting you don't want to spread the gospel in the traditional way.

Well, we have no excuse. We are to spread the gospel in the traditional way. The way that always has worked, and is the way Christ says to do.

The traditional way was that children would stay home, and be taught the Bible by their parents. Now most Americans leave it up to the government to teach their children.

Here are a few facts about traditional America:

In 1777, Congress, facing a National shortage of `Bibles for our schools, and families, and for the public worship of God in our churches,' announced that they `desired to have a Bible printed under their care & by their encouragement' and therefore ordered 20,000 copies of the Bible to be imported `into the different ports of the States of the Union'.

In 1782, Congress pursued a plan to print a Bible that would be `a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools' and therefore approved the production of the first English language Bible printed in America that contained the congressional endorsement that `the United States in Congress assembled . . . recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States'.


In 1789, Congress, in the midst of framing the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment, passed the first Federal law touching education, declaring that `Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged'.


Text - H.Res.397 - 111th Congress
When my mother went to public school; they were still opening in prayer and singing Hymns to start their day.



It seems that you have more tolerance for Islam than you do for Christianity.

 

[Halbhh]

The traditional way was that children would stay home, and be taught the Bible by their parents. Now most Americans leave it up to the government to teach their children.

Here are a few facts about traditional America:

In 1777, Congress, facing a National shortage of `Bibles for our schools, and families, and for the public worship of God in our churches,' announced that they `desired to have a Bible printed under their care & by their encouragement' and therefore ordered 20,000 copies of the Bible to be imported `into the different ports of the States of the Union'.

In 1782, Congress pursued a plan to print a Bible that would be `a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools' and therefore approved the production of the first English language Bible printed in America that contained the congressional endorsement that `the United States in Congress assembled . . . recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States'.


In 1789, Congress, in the midst of framing the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment, passed the first Federal law touching education, declaring that `Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged'.


Text - H.Res.397 - 111th Congress
When my mother went to public school; they were still opening in prayer and singing Hymns to start their day.



It seems that you have more tolerance for Islam than you do for Christianity.

Interesting! I think that was unusual in the areas where I grew up (we moved a few times, so it's several different schools across Texas, and then finally Oklahoma) -- we didn't sing any hymn unless you count stuff like Battle Hymn of the Republic. Is that the kind of "hymn" you mean? Probably not I'm guessing, but I'd love to know what hymns you sang, and what decade that was. We only had as a ritual the Pledge of Allegiance. A prayer in contrast would be at the beginning of a sporting event.

 

[HARK!]

Interesting! I think that was unusual in the areas where I grew up (we moved a few times, so it's several different schools across Texas, and then finally Oklahoma) -- we didn't sing any hymn unless you count stuff like Battle Hymn of the Republic. Is that the kind of "hymn" you mean? Probably not I'm guessing, but I'd love to know what hymns you sang, and what decade that was. We only had as a ritual the Pledge of Allegiance. A prayer in contrast would be at the beginning of a sporting event.

I said my mother. She was in school in the 50's. When I was in school; The Hymns were still in our songbook; but we would skip over the Hymns. Those books went bye bye in the late 70's. This state was not Texas; and it was not in the Bible Belt.

I'm talking about the hymns that you see in a traditional church Hymnal, songs from the 1400's through the 1800's.

 

[LoG]

In Canada we were still doing the Lord's prayer up till 1988 in public schools.
A couple of provinces still retain the right but don't exercise it because of the cost of defending against human rights violations.
Prayers

 

[Halbhh]

I said my mother. She was in school in the 50's. When I was in school; The Hymns were still in our songbook; but we would skip over the Hymns. Those books went bye bye in the late 70's. This state was not Texas; and it was not in the Bible Belt.

I'm talking about the hymns that you see in a traditional church Hymnal, songs from the 1400's through the 1800's.

How interesting! What part of the country was she in, if you want to share. I've visited several parts, and know some of the South, Appalachia, the East, the Midwest and the Southwest, and visited some on the West Coast.

 

[HARK!]

How interesting! What part of the country was she in, if you want to share. I've visited several parts, and know some of the South, Appalachia, the East, the Midwest and the Southwest, and visited some on the West Coast.

The Liberal megalopolis of the Northeast.

 

[John Helpher]

Most important: I believe we have done a huge disservice to our Christian-raised children by teaching them the false dichotomy of having to choose either evolution or creation. They are often taught by Christian leaders/parents that it can only be one or the other.

Nah. It really is only one or the other. The confusion comes because most people don't understand what Evolutionary theory is. It is an explanation for how life came to be what it is without any intent, purpose, intelligence, or design. That's it.

If you want to say that you believe an intelligent creator made all life, but he did so through a series of small mutations over billions of years, that's not evolution; that is intelligent design.

In terms of concept, there can only be intelligent design or random chance.

 

[Big Boo]

Creation science is backed by the scientific method, so it should be taught in schools. Part of the problem is science today only accepts what is natural in the physical world. It is based on the philosophy of empiricism, but today's science does not follow it nor is it backed by the scientific method. What today's science of evolution is backed by is consensus and circumstantial forensic evidence. Why only evolution is taught in schools is because today's science does not allow for a supernatural creator to be involved in the "creation" of the universe, Earth, and everything in it. This is not science when evidence can be provided for the supernatural in creation through the Bible. It is part of Genesis and how God created the natural world. The assumption that there was no supernatural occurrence during the beginning is unscientific. One of the most basic arguments for a creator is the universe began to exist, not an eternal universe, and we have Kalam's Cosmological argument.

Furthermore, we are here -- the universe and everything in it exists! Now, if evolution and its big bang could explain in detail of how the electromagnetic spectrum, the Higgs field, the cosmic microwave background, and how amino acids formed into proteins in outer space from nothing or invisible quantum particles, then they would have a better explanation and argument with big bang. We need to have the theory fit the evidence instead of the evidence made to fit the theory. Science should not just be based on empiricism, but also on a priori reasoning in addition to the scientific a posteriori reasoning. This is all part of epistemology. We need to use facts, reasoning, and historical truths in science since not everything can be proven by scientific method.

I've read Dr. John Morris' explanation for a creator -- Should the Public Schools Teach Creation? -- and today we have a more updated version from Lee Strobel -- Strong case, but flawed by compromise (Review of Lee Strobel, Case for Creator) - creation.com. creation.com gives a brief overview without reading his book. Sorry, I haven't read his book, but have watched the video below.

Young earth creationism is a legitimate branch of science and should therefore be taught in public schools.

 

[Paul James]

It is going to be very difficult to get Creation taught in public schools because many church ministers who hold to theistic evolution are opposing it and will do what they can to hinder it.

 

[John Helpher]

It is going to be very difficult to get Creation taught in public schools because many church ministers who hold to theistic evolution are opposing it and will do what they can to hinder it.

I've found that many people, especially Christians, don't understand what evolution (in the context of an explanation for how we came to be here) actually means; it is an alternative to intelligent design. Evolutionary theory is an explanation for how life came to be what it is without any intelligence, meaning, purpose, or intent; it is a theory which espouses 100%, dumb-luck chance as the explanation for life.

 

[Paul James]

I've found that many people, especially Christians, don't understand what evolution (in the context of an explanation for how we came to be here) actually means; it is an alternative to intelligent design. Evolutionary theory is an explanation for how life came to be what it is without any intelligence, meaning, purpose, or intent; it is a theory which espouses 100%, dumb-luck chance as the explanation for life.

There is very little difference between atheistic evolution and theistic evolution. All theistic evolution is that God has been inserted in somewhere between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. For atheists, it is because they strongly want to keep God right out of the picture altogether. For Christians, it is to help them try to understand with their logical minds how God might have gone about creating everything. To try and distance themselves from atheistic evolution, many Christians re-definite it as "Developmental Creation" which means basically the same thing, but helps them maintain their genuine faith in Christ while trying to find a satisfactory answer to how we all got here.