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should we say pledge

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Oct 23, 2005
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When a president is vowed he must put a hand on the bible and has to swear on it. But god said don't swear in his name, so whats swearing on a bible?

Also when you are in court you are swearing on the bible to tell the truth thats wrong isn't it, because you are swearing in the lords name


Also, should we say the pledge of allegiance? I feel uncomfortable puttin my hand over my heart and saying a pledge

What about for the star spangled banner?
 

Jipsah

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I don't think we ought to swear when our Lord has told us not to. And I'll be dogged if I'm gonna pledge allegiance to anybody's flag. Flags represent states set up by sinful men to rule other sinful men. My allegiance belongs to God.
 
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Oct 23, 2005
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Jipsah said:
I don't think we ought to swear when our Lord has told us not to. And I'll be dogged if I'm gonna pledge allegiance to anybody's flag. Flags represent states set up by sinful men to rule other sinful men. My allegiance belongs to God.


We are all sinful people though, so anyone who sets up a state isn't not sinful



Its going to look dodgy if someone goes to court and won't swear the truth pledge lol
 
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Joykins

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I thought that passage was not about forbidding swearing oaths in general, but the idea that you were only accountable if you did swear, and that swearing by different things had different levels of being true...but that you should be honest all the time. Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay
 
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Verv

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strikerchris0411 said:
When a president is vowed he must put a hand on the bible and has to swear on it. But god said don't swear in his name, so whats swearing on a bible?

Also when you are in court you are swearing on the bible to tell the truth thats wrong isn't it, because you are swearing in the lords name


Also, should we say the pledge of allegiance? I feel uncomfortable puttin my hand over my heart and saying a pledge

What about for the star spangled banner?

I have always agree'd with the doctrine of let your 'yes mean yes' and your 'no mean no,' and having no importance and real validity in swearing on the Bible or pledging an allegiance. I have the same view.

Nonetheless, I do it, but I definitely understand that it means nothing without my yes being my yes, and my no being my no, and that by doing this I am not making myself a better person or anything. rather, I do it as a formality. But I do say that you have spurred me to reinvestigate this point of view again and reconsider it.
 
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Jipsah

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strikerchris0411 said:
We are all sinful people though, so anyone who sets up a state isn't not sinful
Which is what I said. I don't give my allegiance to states run by sinful men. That includes, at last count, all of them.

Its going to look dodgy if someone goes to court and won't swear the truth pledge lol
In most states you're allowed to "affirm".
 
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MrJim

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Jipsah said:
I don't think we ought to swear when our Lord has told us not to. And I'll be dogged if I'm gonna pledge allegiance to anybody's flag. Flags represent states set up by sinful men to rule other sinful men. My allegiance belongs to God.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
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Eruliel

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When Jesus was put on trial he was under oath as well. The High Priest put him there and Jesus simply replied "Yes, it is as you say". I think the same thing goes with the courts today. When you're a witness to a crime you're forced to swear to tell the truth and nothing but. This is more of a submitting to the authorities in Romans 13 than it is making a promise. I mean it is making a promise, but outside of your will and desire. It's a nessecity that must be fulfilled for the sake of society.

And as far as making a vow, Jesus says not to, but he also knew that people would be getting married and making marriage vows to each other and to God. He also knew people would be promising to submit to church authority. He knew kings, priests, presidents would be inaugurated, installed, or coronated with different promises, and yet these people are vitally important to society because they help keep things in order. Heck, even saying a simple "Yes" is confirming that you are indeed going to do something or saying you are definitely what you say you are...it's a promise of sorts and people expect you to keep to your "Yes". So I guess it's just best not to say Yes to the little widow in your church who needs help next Monday with mowing her grass.

God made a covenant with us that he intends to keep. When we become Christians we're promising our lives to Christ, to live for him. I think this falls into the idea that if you're going to make a promise, make it with every intention of keeping it. I know that in Matt 5 Jesus says "Don't do even that", but sometimes making a promise is unavoidable, like with a marriage ceremony or a confirmation. I think in those instances you should say the promise, not flippantly, and not without knowing what you're getting yourself into, but with complete understanding and a complete intention of keeping your oath. That's why I personally have a problem with saying the Pledge of Alligance. I have no intention of keeping a promise that means I have to be loyal to a country that I'm actually kind of apathetic about. It's like "Alright, I'll submit to the authorities, but not because I'm devoted to them, but because God wants me to and I'll get my butt kicked if I don't, and oh by the way, as soon as I get enough money I'm moving to...someplace else."
I'm hoping that some random volcano will blow up in the middle of the ocean so I can go live there. :p Of course me being an American citizen will immediatly mean that the little Island will belong to America...unless I change my citizenship to the Conch Republic or something like that.
Slainte!
Eruliel
 
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The-Doctor

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I work in law enforcement where swearing on the bible in court is a regular thing. I spoke to my pastor about this. He felt that this was not taking His name in vain since you are saying that I promise to tell the truth before my God. Still if I was uncomfortable with this there was the oath of affirmation which is just a solemn promise to tell the truth while in court.
 
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angelosKD

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Jipsah said:
I don't think we ought to swear when our Lord has told us not to. And I'll be dogged if I'm gonna pledge allegiance to anybody's flag. Flags represent states set up by sinful men to rule other sinful men. My allegiance belongs to God.

amen
 
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