Should we keep the Sabbaths?

[pasifika]

Agree, but that doesn’t mean we can’t make better decisions Today to obey Him. Which is why He pleas with us Today if we hear His voice do not harden our hearts in rebellion to Him. Hebrews 3:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, Psalms 95:7-8. If we wait another day to listen and obey it could be too late as we have no idea what tomorrow may bring. God does not do all the work, He needs our cooperation.

...If We "hear" His voice. (Have you heard His voice "Today"? You still interpret "Today" in the passage differently to how I see it. We both see the verse in different light.

How about this.."encourage one another "daily" as long as it's called "Today"..Hebrews 3:13

 

[tonychanyt]

Matthew 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

I already voiced my position and I will let that stand.

You keep asserting your position with words.

How can I find out how strongly you believe your position? See Subjective (Bayesian) Probability

 

[SabbathBlessings]

...If We "hear" His voice. (Have you heard His voice "Today"? You still interpret "Today" in the passage differently to how I see it. We both see the verse in different light.

How about this.."encourage one another "daily" as long as it's called "Today"..Hebrews 3:13

We should hear God’s voice daily, which is the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 3:7-8

Today is daily, no doubt. Which is why the Holy Spirit calls us “today” to hear His voice, to not harden our hearts in rebellion, which is what the scripture says verbatim, so it doesn’t seem like a hard scripture to understand. The unforgivable sin is against the Spirit Matthew 12:21 which is why there is a plea daily. What is dangerous is when we stop listening to the Holy Spirit and think sin (breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7) is okay and we become comfortable in our sins.

 

[pasifika]

We should hear God’s voice daily, which is the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 3:7-8

Today is daily, no doubt. Which is why the Holy Spirit calls us “today” to hear His voice, to not harden our hearts in rebellion, which is what the scripture says verbatim, so it doesn’t seem like a hard scripture to understand. The unforgivable sin is against the Spirit Matthew 12:21 which is why there is a plea daily. What is dangerous is when we stop listening to the Holy Spirit and think sin (breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7) is okay and we become comfortable in our sins.

What is Gods voice sounds like?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What is Gods voice sounds like?

You never heard the Holy Spirit calling you?

 

[pasifika]

You never heard the Holy Spirit calling you?

I 've heard a voice spoke to me..it's not sound like man I mean a human voice. So, I want to know if you heard God's voice speaking to you? What does it sounds like..

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I 've heard a voice spoke to me..it's not sound like man I mean a human voice. So, I want to know if you heard God's voice speaking to you? What does it sounds like..

Have you ever lied and felt terrible about it afterward? That is the Holy Spirit speaking/convicting you. Or have you ever prayed for understanding of scripture and then received mental clarity, that is the Holy Spirit speaking to you. The Holy Spirit will never lead you away or contradict God’s Word Isaiah 8:20 and thats one way to test if its from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will lead impressions on your soul tugging at you to do the right thing, if you listen to His voice. If you tune it out, one can harden their heart so much they can no longer hear. That’s a dangerous place to be. I pray for the Holy Spirit, we need His guidance daily.

 

[pasifika]

Have you ever lied and felt terrible about it afterward? That is the Holy Spirit speaking/convicting you. Or have you ever prayed for understanding of scripture and then received mental clarity, that is the Holy Spirit speaking to you. The Holy Spirit will never lead you away or contradict God’s Word Isaiah 8:20 and thats one way to test if its from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will lead impressions on your soul tugging at you to do the right thing, if you listen to Its voice. If you tune it out, one can harden their hard so much they can no longer hear. That’s a dangerous place to be. I pray for the Holy Spirit, we need His guidance daily.

I mean, audible voice..e.g. when Christ spoke to John in Rev 1:15. John describes the voice as like that of "rushing waters"..I think this important, as the sheep knows the voice of their master or the Shepherd. So have you heard that kind of voice?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I mean, audible voice..e.g. when Christ spoke to John in Rev 1:15. John describes the voice as like that of "rushing waters"..I think this important, as the sheep knows the voice of their master or the Shepherd. So have you heard that kind of voice?

No, I have not heard God’s audible voice, very few people have.

I know my Maters voice because He speaks to me through His Spirit and His Word, both are in harmony. If the spirit is out of harmony with the Word of God, that is the other spirit. Isaiah 8:20 The other spirit has a lot of tricks and can make some people believe the dead speaks to them, but that is spiritualism and not coming from God. The Word of God is given to be the light to our path Psalms 119:105 this is how God speaks to most people, through His Word. His Spirit is given to convict and to help us obey John 14:15-18

 

[tonychanyt]

I 've heard a voice spoke to me..it's not sound like man I mean a human voice. So, I want to know if you heard God's voice speaking to you? What does it sounds like..

Check this out: How to hear God?

 

[Soyeong]

I don't think anyone, including Abraham, was commanded to keep the Sabbath until Exodus 31:

13 You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.​

What is holy to God should not be profaned by man, so if God had rest on the Sabbath and made it holy, but had never commanded anyone to keep it holy, then we would still be obligated to keep it holy.

Sabbath was a special sign of the covenant between God and the Israelites after exiting Egypt.

Keeping the Sabbath holy is the way to bear witness that the things that the things that the Sabbath is a sign of are true while not keeping the Sabbath holy is the way to bear false witness against the truth of the things that the Sabbath is a sign of.

In the NT, Jesus healed on the Sabbath in John 5:

8 Jesus said to him [P1], “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.” 9 And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.​

Now that day was the Sabbath. 10 So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.”​

According to the Jewish authority, Jesus broke the Sabbath and Jesus told P1 to break the Sabbath. The Pharisees saw sins as external behaviors. See e.g., The 39 Categories of Sabbath Work Prohibited By Law. Jesus shifted the focus to the heart where sin originated (Matthew 5:28).

It is contradictory to believe both that Jesus was correct that it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath and that the Pharisees were correct that Jesus broke the Sabbath by healing on it. It is lawful to heal on the Sabbath, so Jesus was correct. In Exodus 20:6-11, God wanted His people to love Him and keep His commandments, so keeping the Sabbath holy has always been a matter of the heart.

Paul had this to say in Romans 14:

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6a The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord.​

The topic of Romans 14 stated in the first verse is in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow what God has commanded, so nothing in the chapter should be interpreted teaching us to rebel against God. For example, in regard to Romans 14:2-3, God gave no command to eat only vegetables so whether or not someone chose to do that is a disputable matter of opinion, but where God has given a clear command, human opinion must yield. In Romans 14:4-5, Paul spoke about those who were eating or refraining from eating unto the Lord, so he was speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion, not in regard to commands of God. For example, God gave no command to fast twice a week, but that had become a common practice in the 1st century (Luke 18:12), so that is the sort of dispute Paul was addressing in this chapter. He was not saying that we are free to commit adultery, idolatry, murder, theft, rape, kidnapping, break the Sabbath or disobey any of God's other commands just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok to do, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion in which God has given no command. The reason why we are to keep the Sabbath holy is not because man esteemed it as a matter of opinion, but because God rested on it, blessed it, made it holy, and instructed His people to keep it holy.

Should we keep the Sabbath?

According to Paul, it is up to the individual believers. Further, we should not judge others about Sabbath, Colossians 2:

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.​

That verse in itself leaves room for two possibilities:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by Jews because they were not keeping then, and Paul was saying not to let anyone judge them for not keeping them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands, they were being judged by pagans because they were keeping them, and Paul was saying not to let anyone judge them for keeping them and stop them from obeying God.

In Colossians 2:20-23, Paul described the people who were judging the Colossians as promoting human teachings and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so they were being judged by pagans, which means that 2.) is the case, so it is ironic when people try to use this verse to stop people from obeying God.

If you keep the Sabbath, are you going to keep the punishment?

Numbers 15:

32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses.​

The weekly Sabbaths are only a shadow of the true Sabbath rest. Once we have the true reality, there is no need to chase after the shadows.

Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, so it would be unlawful to enforce a penalty that he has already paid. Still, the fact that God considers breaking the Sabbath to be worthy of the death penalty and the fact that Jesus gave himself to pay that penalty should not make us feel free to continue breaking the Sabbath.

The foreshadows testify about what is to come and we should live in a way that testifies about the truth of what is to come by keeping the foreshadows rather than a way that denies the truth of what is to come.

 

[tonychanyt]

What is holy to God should not be profaned by man, so if God had rest on the Sabbath and made it holy, but had never commanded anyone to keep it holy, then we would still be obligated to keep it holy.


Keeping the Sabbath holy is the way to bear witness that the things that the things that the Sabbath is a sign of are true while not keeping the Sabbath holy is the way to bear false witness against the truth of the things that the Sabbath is a sign of.


It is contradictory to believe both that Jesus was correct that it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath and that the Pharisees were correct that Jesus broke the Sabbath by healing on it. It is lawful to heal on the Sabbath, so Jesus was correct. In Exodus 20:6-11, God wanted His people to love Him and keep His commandments, so keeping the Sabbath holy has always been a matter of the heart.


The topic of Romans 14 stated in the first verse is in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow what God has commanded, so nothing in the chapter should be interpreted teaching us to rebel against God. For example, in regard to Romans 14:2-3, God gave no command to eat only vegetables so whether or not someone chose to do that is a disputable matter of opinion, but where God has given a clear command, human opinion must yield. In Romans 14:4-5, Paul spoke about those who were eating or refraining from eating unto the Lord, so he was speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion, not in regard to commands of God. For example, God gave no command to fast twice a week, but that had become a common practice in the 1st century (Luke 18:12), so that is the sort of dispute Paul was addressing in this chapter. He was not saying that we are free to commit adultery, idolatry, murder, theft, rape, kidnapping, break the Sabbath or disobey any of God's other commands just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok to do, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion in which God has given no command. The reason why we are to keep the Sabbath holy is not because man esteemed it as a matter of opinion, but because God rested on it, blessed it, made it holy, and instructed His people to keep it holy.


That verse in itself leaves room for two possibilities:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by Jews because they were not keeping then, and Paul was saying not to let anyone judge them for not keeping them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands, they were being judged by pagans because they were keeping them, and Paul was saying not to let anyone judge them for keeping them and stop them from obeying God.

In Colossians 2:20-23, Paul described the people who were judging the Colossians as promoting human teachings and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so they were being judged by pagans, which means that 2.) is the case, so it is ironic when people try to use this verse to stop people from obeying God.


Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, so it would be unlawful to enforce a penalty that he has already paid. Still, the fact that God considers breaking the Sabbath to be worthy of the death penalty and the fact that Jesus gave himself to pay that penalty should not make us feel free to continue breaking the Sabbath.

The foreshadows testify about what is to come and we should live in a way that testifies about the truth of what is to come by keeping the foreshadows rather than a way that denies the truth of what is to come.

There we go again

Let proposition P1 = Every Christian today is required to keep the weekly Saturday Sabbaths.
P2 = Not every Christian today is required to keep the weekly Saturday Sabbaths.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions?

 

[Soyeong]

There we go again

Let proposition P1 = Every Christian today is required to keep the weekly Saturday Sabbaths.
P2 = Not every Christian today is required to keep the weekly Saturday Sabbaths.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions?

I made the case from Scripture that we should keep the Sabbath, so what does the probability that I think that I am right matter? If you disagree with what I said, then please explain why you do.

1.) Christians are not permitted to sin (Romans 6:15).
2.) Sin is the transgression of God's law. (1 John 3:4).
3.) God's law includes the command to keep the 7th day (Exodus 20:8-11).
4.) Therefore, Christians are required to keep the 7th day holy.

So there is a very high degree of certainty based on Scripture that P1 is true.

 

[tonychanyt]

I made the case from Scripture that we should keep the Sabbath, so what does the probability that I think that I am right matter? If you disagree with what I said, then please explain why you do.

1.) Christians are not permitted to sin (Romans 6:15).
2.) Sin is the transgression of God's law. (1 John 3:4).
3.) God's law includes the command to keep the 7th day (Exodus 20:8-11).
4.) Therefore, Christians are required to keep the 7th day holy.

So there is a very high degree of certainty based on Scripture that P1 is true.

How high? Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on P1?

 

[Soyeong]

How high? Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on P1?

I don't have a number to give you, I can simply make the best case that I can for my position.

 

[tonychanyt]

I don't have a number to give you, I can simply make the best case that I can for my position.

Sure, but then you lack mathematical precision in your analysis.

 

[Soyeong]

Sure, but then you lack mathematical precision in your analysis.

Why do need mathematical precision in my analysis? If I were 89.5675467% confident in a particular position, then what would good would it be to have that level of precision in my analysis? How would knowing that be valuable to either of us? What could I do with that information?

 

[tonychanyt]

Why do need mathematical precision in my analysis?

I don't.

 

[eleos1954]

I don't think anyone, including Abraham, was commanded to keep the Sabbath until Exodus 31:

13 You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.​

Sabbath was a special sign of the covenant between God and the Israelites after exiting Egypt.

In the NT, Jesus healed on the Sabbath in John 5:

8 Jesus said to him [P1], “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.” 9 And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.​

Now that day was the Sabbath. 10 So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.”​

According to the Jewish authority, Jesus broke the Sabbath and Jesus told P1 to break the Sabbath. The Pharisees saw sins as external behaviors. See e.g., The 39 Categories of Sabbath Work Prohibited By Law. Jesus shifted the focus to the heart where sin originated (Matthew 5:28).

Paul had this to say in Romans 14:

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6a The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord.​

Should we keep the Sabbath?

According to Paul, it is up to the individual believers. Further, we should not judge others about Sabbath, Colossians 2:

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.​

If you keep the Sabbath, are you going to keep the punishment?

Numbers 15:

32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses.​

The weekly Sabbaths are only a shadow of the true Sabbath rest. Once we have the true reality, there is no need to chase after the shadows.

4th commandment .... period. Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath. God/Jesus don't change the law (not one jot or tittle) There were many ceremonial sabbaths kept and in Colossians 2 Paul is
referring to those (food/drink/festival/new moon) .... not the 7th day Sabbath

As identified in Leviticus, these annual ceremonial days were: 15th day, 1st month—1st day of Unleavened Bread (Lev 23:6-7); 21st day, 1st month—7th day of Unleavened Bread (Lev 23:8); 50th day after “the Sabbath” (of Unleavened Bread)—Pentecost (Lev 23:16-21); 1st day, 7th month—Day of Trumpets (Lev 23:24-25); 10th ...

There is one Sabbath day ... the 7th day ... that God created and blessed and made HOLY ... holy means to be set apart .... apart from what? All the other days. Jesus created the day and didn't change it.

We are to rest in the Lord always .... but the 7th day is special because God created it for man to rest from physical labor and to spend time with Him.

Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.

Mark 2

27Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath (of the Lord) was made for man (from creation - before the fall - before there were any jews), not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

It's the 4th commandment and can not be separated from the rest of the commandments.

 

[tonychanyt]

4th commandment .... period. Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath. God/Jesus don't change the law (not one jot or tittle) There were many ceremonial sabbaths kept and in Colossians 2 Paul is
referring to those (food/drink/festival/new moon) .... not the 7th day Sabbath

As identified in Leviticus, these annual ceremonial days were: 15th day, 1st month—1st day of Unleavened Bread (Lev 23:6-7); 21st day, 1st month—7th day of Unleavened Bread (Lev 23:8); 50th day after “the Sabbath” (of Unleavened Bread)—Pentecost (Lev 23:16-21); 1st day, 7th month—Day of Trumpets (Lev 23:24-25); 10th ...

There is one Sabbath day ... the 7th day ... that God created and blessed and made HOLY ... holy means to be set apart .... apart from what? All the other days. Jesus created the day and didn't change it.

We are to rest in the Lord always .... but the 7th day is special because God created it for man to rest from physical labor and to spend time with Him.

Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.

Mark 2

27Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath (of the Lord) was made for man (from creation - before the fall - before there were any jews), not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

It's the 4th commandment and can not be separated from the rest of the commandments.

Let proposition P1 = Every Christian today is required to keep the weekly Saturday Sabbaths.
P2 = Not every Christian today is required to keep the weekly Saturday Sabbaths.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions?