Should we keep the law yes or no an if no tell me why

[NatalieJan777]

.... 3[/B]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

The law of circumcision of the flesh is no more. Once you accept Christ it is then that GOD begins to show HIS laws HE has written on our hearts, which are the same laws handed down through Moses. You twist it as meaning all the laws. The first covenent was circumcision of the flesh (body), the second circumcision is of the heart (spirit) provided by Faith in Christ JESUS.

Paul is speaking to those who wanted to impose the circumcision of the flesh on those already circumcised by the spirit.

 

[Ursie]

Wrong again what did jesus tell the rich man mark 10v 17-21 mark 7 v6-9

Roshan, I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Can you please explain further. From the Scriptures you reference, I assume you are pointing out the need to put aside all things that consume a person and follow Jesus, agreed. And also that people have a tendency to put aside God's law in favor of men's tradition. I agree that both of these are true and I have said already that I believe we ought to love God's law. So can you explain what you think is wrong about my previous post? Please.

 

[stelow]

Romans 8:1-17
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

 

[Ursie]

Romans 8:1-17
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Hey Stelow, I have noticed that you answer almost exclusively by using Scripture. Would it be possible for you to elaborate and clarify what you are trying to point out that Scripture is saying? Many people view the same scriptures in very different ways so I would be greatly helped if you would explain further.

 

[stelow]

Hey Stelow, I have noticed that you answer almost exclusively by using Scripture. Would it be possible for you to elaborate and clarify what you are trying to point out that Scripture is saying? Many people view the same scriptures in very different ways so I would be greatly helped if you would explain further.

The Word of God is perfect and pure, it lives and abides forever, my words will come and go.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2 Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Psalms 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Psalms 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Psalms 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

 

[stelow]

Galatians 2:15-21
15"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. 17"If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. 19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

 

[NatalieJan777]

Romans 8:1-17
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Yes we cannot earn Grace in our own efforts, only through Christ Jesus can this be done. If we no longer live according to the sinful nature, we are still in fact keeping the law. It appears you make excuses not to follow the law, when in fact I believe if you actually knew the law you would be amazed at what the Holy Spirit has already lead you to adhere to, if indeed the Spirit lives in you. GOD's laws are not burdensome.

5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

12.Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it.

Do you not see that our obligation is not to sinful nature? Sinful nature is disobedience to the Law.

17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

I ask you what was Chirst's suffering? Was it not mortal death by being sinless? (taking the bad for doing good) And is not his glory eternal life by conquering death? If this is not what you believe these mean, please, in your own words tell me what they mean to you.

 

[Ursie]

Yes we cannot earn Grace in our own efforts, only through Christ Jesus can this be done. If we no longer live according to the sinful nature, we are still in fact keeping the law. It appears you make excuses not to follow the law, when in fact I believe if you actually knew the law you would be amazed at what the Holy Spirit has already lead you to adhere to, if indeed the Spirit lives in you. GOD's laws are not burdensome.



12.Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it.

Do you not see that our obligation is not to sinful nature? Sinful nature is disobedience to the Law.

17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

I ask you what was Chirst's suffering? Was it not mortal death by being sinless? (taking the bad for doing good) And is not his glory eternal life by conquering death? If this is not what you believe these mean, please, in your own words tell me what they mean to you.

Natalie, Christians have been taught for some time that they can ignore the law. I don't know when it started but in the discussions I've had about it, most aren't even willing to look at the Scripture from the perspective that following the law would be a blessing. I suppose it is another of Satan's deceptions. He can rob us of the blessings found in obey God's law and so he does. It is his way. Since he's been so effective, it's difficult to get anyone to even consider the alternative. People are never comfortable with change and this would be a huge change for most Christians. Huge! Pray that God will open eyes and hearts to see the riches found in His law.

 

[roshan turner]

The law of circumcision of the flesh is no more. Once you accept Christ it is then that GOD begins to show HIS laws HE has written on our hearts, which are the same laws handed down through Moses. You twist it as meaning all the laws. The first covenent was circumcision of the flesh (body), the second circumcision is of the heart (spirit) provided by Faith in Christ JESUS.

Paul is speaking to those who wanted to impose the circumcision of the flesh on those already circumcised by the spirit.

first of all i know what paul is talking about it profit nothing if you dont keep the law have you forgot what the scipture said if you be christ then are you abramham seed according to the promise he circumcision he seeds plus read this act16: v1-3 ezekiel 44:v9

 

[stelow]

It appears you make excuses not to follow the law, when in fact I believe if you actually knew the law you would be amazed at what the Holy Spirit has already lead you to adhere to, if indeed the Spirit lives in you. GOD's laws are not burdensome.

So NatalieJan when you live according to the law, you're allowed to accuse your brethren of making excuses for not following or knowing the law and question if they even have the Spirit of God living in them.

You're right NatalieJan and Ursie, and I'm wrong for quoting only the Word of God. I hope we can get past any differences we have, I never accused anyone in this thread of anything, for the most part I only quoted scriptures.

I will unsubscribe to this thread, that means I will not even watch or respond to this thread any longer.

Steve

 

[Ursie]

Actually, while I may not agree with Steve POV on this subject, I may agree about unsubscibing. We don't seem to be getting very far with the discussion and perhaps there will be other opportunities to discuss again. I hope Steve will not see disagreement as reason to not communicate.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Natalie, Christians have been taught for some time that they can ignore the law. I don't know when it started but in the discussions I've had about it, most aren't even willing to look at the Scripture from the perspective that following the law would be a blessing. I suppose it is another of Satan's deceptions. He can rob us of the blessings found in obey God's law and so he does. It is his way. Since he's been so effective, it's difficult to get anyone to even consider the alternative. People are never comfortable with change and this would be a huge change for most Christians. Huge! Pray that God will open eyes and hearts to see the riches found in His law.

Here is what I believe it is. I talk to many who read only new testament and do not follow the Holy Spirits leading to delve more into the old testament. If they truly loved GOD they would want to get to know HIM.

They are willing to sacrifice knowing GOD in order to hold on to the twisting of the writings of Paul, who's writing I might add make perfect reasonable sense after knowledge of the Old Testament.

They follow a lie and not the truth (Christ Jesus). I use the words of Christ and they disown them in favor of what they want to believe. I pity them.

Luke 9:26 "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory of the Father and of the holy angels."

John 7:16-19 "Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there i nothing false about him. Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?"

All of Christ's teachings come from old testament scripture and from GOD himself, but they are reluctant to gain the knowledge of GOD by holding on to what they want to think Paul is saying. I cry much to see how knowing that Christ suffered for their sins they want to increase HIS mortal pain by continueing in these very sins HIS life was sacrificed for.

 

[NatalieJan777]

first of all i know what paul is talking about it profit nothing if you dont keep the law have you forgot what the scipture said if you be christ then are you abramham seed according to the promise he circumcision he seeds plus read this act16: v1-3 ezekiel 44:v9

Thank you roshan turner for pointing this additional scripture out to me. I had no Idea that Paul circumsized Timothy after Christ's ressurection. But understand that it was done to be more presentable to the Jews so that the gospel of Christ could be preached. In reference to your OT scripture I believe that GOD was more upset that the levites had sherked their duties and put those who were uncircumcized (flesh/spirit) in charge of HIS holy things. I've been reading Judges the past few days and have been amazed of what man is capable of doing (digressing from GOD) without true knowledge of HIS WORD.