Should we allow immigrants into our country?

[trophy33]

And yet your outrage seems selective, overlooking the most longstanding and violent cases of it.

Are you playing an advocate for a robber who says he will return all he has stolen after all other robbers will do it first?

The difference between colonizing an unsettled frontier and invading an established nation.

Are you sure that when the colonists came, the American land was unsettled? I have heard that there were so called "Indians" who owned the land for many generations. Untill they were killed or expelled to small reservations.

 

[98cwitr]

Is this a Christian thing to do or not?

Absolutely. I think we need immigration reform and help good intentioned folks get citizenship more efficiently. If the question is nuanced though; and for the sake of honesty should be rephrased as "should we have an open border policy and allow free travel across our nation's borders?" I would have to say no. We do need to vet those coming into the country.

 

[Karin12414]

Is this a Christian thing to do or not?

I little late to the Party. Not sure if anyone said this already, but the Bible is VERY CLEAR about this issue.

"You shall neither mistreat a stranger, nor oppress him, for you were strangers in the Land of Egypt. You shall not afflict any widow or fatherless child. If you afflict them in any way, and they cry at all to Me, I will surely hear their cry; and My wrath will become hot, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless."
Exodus 22:21-24

"The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God."
Leviticus 19:34

‘Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.’ Then all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
Leviticus 27:19

"The Lord watches over the strangers; he upholds the orphan and the widow, but the way of the wicked he brings to ruin."
Psalm146:9

"You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who reside among you and have begotten children among you. They shall be to you as citizens of Israel; with you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel."
Ezekiel 47:22

There are MANY more verses about this topic, but I won't fill up a whole page. You can go do your own research on it.

Now, I will say that it is realistically improbable for us to just open up our borders to anyone and everyone. I agree that it could cause economic issues. HOWEVER, The Bible says we are to treat them with respect and treat them as if they are citizens. It does not specify Illegal vs Legal, it just says we are to love and protect them. The Bible is very clear about what will happen to us if we do not.

As for our Country (assuming you are talking about the USA), we may have been founded on Christianity, but this Country is definitely not that anymore. So when it comes to this issue, it can be argued that we as a nation are not held to the standard the Bible sets, BUT we as CHRISTIANS are and that, to me, means it is our duty to protect the Immigrants no matter their status, and we are to vote in favor of policies that do the same.

Any Christian that tries to argue otherwise has not read the whole Bible. Does not mean they are bad and certainly does not mean they are not a Christian. Just means that they need to spend some more time in The Word and be open to it's FULL message and not just the parts that are convenient for them.

The World was Created in whole by God. He did not sit there and make America, then Mexico, then Europe and so on. He Created the Heavens and the Earth and all that dwell on it. We have NO right to decide after the fact that this is what God was "trying" to say.

All in all, LOVE and PROTECT all of God's creation.

God Bless you all

 

[Newtheran]

Any Christian that tries to argue otherwise has not read the whole Bible. Does not mean they are bad and certainly does not mean they are not a Christian. Just means that they need to spend some more time in The Word and be open to it's FULL message and not just the parts that are convenient for them.

The World was Created in whole by God. He did not sit there and make America, then Mexico, then Europe and so on. He Created the Heavens and the Earth and all that dwell on it. We have NO right to decide after the fact that this is what God was "trying" to say.

You mean, like this part?

"and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,"
- Acts 17:26

 

[Newtheran]

Are you sure that when the colonists came, the American land was unsettled?

Yes.

I have heard that there were so called "Indians" who owned the land for many generations. Untill they were killed or expelled to small reservations.

You've heard wrong. They owned the land in the same way that people who go camping in Yellowstone and move from campsite to campsite have settled and owned the land. North America was an unsettled frontier.

 

[A_Thinker]

You've heard wrong. They owned the land in the same way that people who go camping in Yellowstone and move from campsite to campsite have settled and owned the land. North America was an unsettled frontier.

Even if you believe this, ... there was no justification for moving Native Americans from the lands on which they lived ...

The Trail of Tears — The Indian Removals [ushistory.org]

 

[Karin12414]

You mean, like this part?

"and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,"
- Acts 17:26

Like I said. Gotta read the FULL Text. This individual verse, when in context, is not about Immigration or the separation of mankind. If you read the verses before and after, it is Paul talking to the masses about how God is beyond our earthly creations. When it says "having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation" it's not saying that we are not allowed to travel or move around. It's talking about the Divine Plan. Yes, He made different races, I didn't say that He didn't, I'm saying that he did not make them all one at a time saying "this race will stay here, while this one is only to live there".

The Chapter goes on to say:

27)"so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

God knows what we are going to do, where we are going to go, everything. That's all this is saying. He already predetermined it. No where does it say that we are not allowed to move around and go to another country. The "Boundaries" it's talking about are just the Places God has predetermined for us. He may have a plan for a person in China to do His great works in Africa. Only God knows where we will go. It is beyond our earthly comprehension or creation. We are to seek Him wherever we go, even though He is already here for us.

He made us all from one blood, we are all His children.

That's it.

 

[Newtheran]

Like I said. Gotta read the FULL Text

...which contradicts what you said about God creating the whole world and making the flawed intellectual jump that you did after cherry picking a few verses that supported your view regarding illegal aliens. Furthermore, you completely ignore the burden God places on the immigrant in Ruth - your people shall be as mine, your God as mine, etc. Breaking in to a country is as much of a crime as breaking in to a home.

 

[Karin12414]

...which contradicts what you said about God creating the whole world and making the flawed intellectual jump that you did after cherry picking a few verses that supported your view regarding illegal aliens. Furthermore, you completely ignore the burden God places on the immigrant in Ruth - your people shall be as mine, your God as mine, etc. Breaking in to a country is as much of a crime as breaking in to a home.

I'm not talking about breaking into a country. I'm talking about general moving around, travel, missions, relocation. God never says we can't do that.

I don't see how I contradicted myself, but everyone is allowed their opinion.

The Bible states we are to love God and love each other. It says no where that we are to round up strangers into camps because we don't want them here or refuse them access just because they come from a particular part of the World.

We are to love and protect the strangers. It says that multiple times in the Bible. The verses I shared are verses I shared in context. If I made a mistake, please tell me. The verse you shared to get your point across was being used out of context. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Newtheran]

The Bible states we are to love God and love each other. It says no where that we are to round up strangers into camps because we don't want them here or refuse them access just because they come from a particular part of the World.

You support open borders then, despite your disclaimer that we can't let everyone in because of economic issues. After all, you can't let economic issues trump the command of God right? Who are you to say that someone who walks faster and gets to the border first can come in and someone who walks slower and gets their later cannot?

As far as being used out of context, it in no way was. You were the one that said that God created the whole earth and no one was illegal. I merely posted the verse from Acts that shows that nations exist at God's pleasure, and it was his intent to have them.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

The Bible states we are to love God and love each other. It says no where that we are to round up strangers into camps because we don't want them here or refuse them access just because they come from a particular part of the World.

Deuteronomy 7 called on the Israelites to completely extirpate the foreign nations from the land in which they were to dwell. If you're going to argue that the Bible's instructions to ancient Israel are applicable to US immigration policy today, at least let's consider the whole story...

 

[dzheremi]

Into our country of Christian Forumstan? I don't see why not.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

If you invite too many migrants, who neither settle into nor participate in the majority culture then you are opening your country to potential demographic shifts in the future which you may or may not like. This should be obvious, especially if one set of migrants has a higher percentage of children. This is the case of Muslims in western Europe.

I'm inclined towards a nationalist view which seeks to preserve the majority culture and especially if that is a nominally Christian country. Inviting mass amounts of people whose society and religion is totally different is not a stabilizing factor.

Using my own country as an example I would like to see immigration from India and China limited and prefer European Christian migrants so as to maintain something of what has traditionally been New Zealand.

Is this a Christian thing to do? No not really, but then again inviting as many migrants as possible also isn't a Christian thing to do. I might dare suggest that if we are taking the best people from India, China and Africa, how are those places ever going to improve or become first world countries?

 

[Karin12414]

You support open borders then, despite your disclaimer that we can't let everyone in because of economic issues. After all, you can't let economic issues trump the command of God right? Who are you to say that someone who walks faster and gets to the border first can come in and someone who walks slower and gets their later cannot?

As far as being used out of context, it in no way was. You were the one that said that God created the whole earth and no one was illegal. I merely posted the verse from Acts that shows that nations exist at God's pleasure, and it was his intent to have them.

Personally, yes, I am for open borders across the world. But I know that's not something that will just happen. When I give my "disclaimer" I am stating the fact that it's much easier said than done. There would have to be an incredible amount of planning that the country is just not willing to deal with. When it comes to Immigration, I think it is wrong to mistreat people that just want to make a better life. Wrong to separate children from their parents and assume it won't damage them forever. Wrong to treat ANY other person on this planet as less than ourselves, less than our brothers and sisters in Christ. But my personal views are not that of the whole country. It doesn't matter to me how you get here. Legal, illegal, none of that matters to me personally. A child of God is a child of God.

I agree that God made different Nations and races. My point is that doesn't matter when it comes to the treatment of these people going to another country. God intended to have multiple races and Nations, but He also intended for us to move across the Earth to spread the Gospel. So why can't people be allowed to move their families to a place they feel is much safer then where they are?

My only point here, which I have not contradicted at all, is we are told in the Bible over and over again that it doesn't matter where you come from, what you did, or how you got to where you are now. We are all sinners saved by grace, called to love the Lord our God with our whole selves and to love our fellow man. The worlds views on immigrants (because this isn't just a USA problem) are far from Biblical.

But I'm done repeating myself. I've gotten my point out, it's up to you how you chose to interpret or react to it.

God Bless

 

[dzheremi]

I might dare suggest that if we are taking the best people from India, China and Africa, how are those places ever going to improve or become first world countries?

Couldn't the same be said about the European immigrants you would prefer to have in NZ? Germany ended up with several million Turks to make up for the lack of German workers to do certain jobs, for instance, and it seems like a lot of Western Europe is engaging in this kind of strategy via the EU.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Couldn't the same be said about the European immigrants you would prefer to have in NZ? Germany ended up with several million Turks to make up for the lack of German workers to do certain jobs, for instance, and it seems like a lot of Western Europe is engaging in this kind of strategy via the EU.

True, but considering Germany is already a prosperous and wealthy nation I don't think it as bad as depriving those poorer countries of their best people.

 

[Karin12414]

True, but considering Germany is already a prosperous and wealthy nation I don't think it as bad as depriving those poorer countries of their best people.

Yeah, but if we followed this thinking, no Country would be advanced. America is where it is because of the help of Immigrants. Americans seem to ignore this fact when it's convenient for them. If no one ever Migrated here, it would still be a Native American Paradise. Not to say that's a bad thing (actually sounds amazing), just that Immigrants are very important for the advancement of any society in general.

It's the mixture of cultures and understanding that allows us to keep moving towards a more United Country and World. This big push for separation only proves that because it seems like we went from the potential of tolerance and acceptance, to a country that feels entitled to the land they stole in the first place. I can't speak for every country, but I know from what I have researched, that this is the same across the world.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Yeah, but if we followed this thinking, no Country would be advanced. America is where it is because of the help of Immigrants. Americans seem to ignore this fact when it's convenient for them. If no one ever Migrated here, it would still be a Native American Paradise. Not to say that's a bad thing (actually sounds amazing), just that Immigrants are very important for the advancement of any society in general.

It's the mixture of cultures and understanding that allows us to keep moving towards a more United Country and World. This big push for separation only proves that because it seems like we went from the potential of tolerance and acceptance, to a country that feels entitled to the land they stole in the first place. I can't speak for every country, but I know from what I have researched, that this is the same across the world.

America was able to thrive based on the culture and type of people that immigrated to the USA and Canada. This lended itself stability and a shared sense of culture though even between Europeans there was conflict in the types of immigrants allowed. When Catholics were allowed to immigrate this was not viewed as a good thing by the Protestant United States majority. Anti-Catholicism was rife for a long time and the crime committed by Italians and Irish immigrants was not unknown. It didn't lend itself to stability.

It's not as if Asians, Arabs and Africans, all of whom have their own sub-culture groups like Europeans do, were allowed. So we can't pretend it was immigration of all peoples that made the USA what it is today. If you introduce too much change to a native population they will resent it, this why nationalism is growing in Europe and the United States. Islamic Turks will not readily assimilate into the greater German culture if they continue to speak Turkish, follow Islam and those aspects of Middle eastern culture rejected by Germans. If they don't assimilate they achieve a strong minority status and begin to have impacts on the wider population especially in a democratic government.

Migration should be done on the basis of what the dominant culture/people will tolerate. It should not be unlimited and done without care for the types of individuals that should be admitted. This will lead to instability and strife instead of Globalist Eutopia. If you don't think this can result the destruction of the dominant culture/people will tolerate we have plenty of examples of where Westerners outgrew natives in the New World. Maori here in NZ, South and North native Americans and the aborigines in Australia.

Though you didn't address my main point about taking the best of the developing world and depriving those countries of their hard workers and intellectuals. If, as you seem to believe, Immigration of all peoples from developing countries is always good for the country they are immigrating to, are we not depriving those original countries of their best and brightest and dooming them to an even slower development? Is this a good thing for India?

Are you also okay with the idea of an Islamic Europe? Perhaps not now but in the distant future? I'm not and would prefer them stay in the Middle East and Indonesia.

 

[charsan]

Is this a Christian thing to do or not?

Legal yes, illegal no.

 

[JacksBratt]

Is this a Christian thing to do or not?

Personally, I believe that countries need immigration. Certain skills and talents are not always maintained by your citizens. Also, population may need to be increased faster than it is naturally.

However, I also believe that each country has the right to have a process to interview, vet, research and screen the immigrants. This is necessary in order to vet out those that have pasts or show traits that can put demands on the system within the country.

In a free country.. I don't believe that you should discriminate for religion or any other visible, physical or cultural differences... as long as the immigrant realizes the laws and traditions of their potential new country and respects them.

I find problems when people from other countries with different cultures come to my country and then want to change the laws of my country. I find that unacceptable.. If you liked that particular trait of your country and still want to enjoy life that way.. then feel free to return to your country.

I have been fortunate enough, in my line of work, to get to know people from all around the world. I have had no trouble with any of them and find that people are basically the same where ever you go or from where ever they come from.. There are some cultures that are very different from mine and can come across as being noticeably different... but, once it is understood that this was the way they have been for centuries you will accept that it's not personal. It's just their way. They usually understand, as well, that it is foreign to us and then understand the reactions that they may get from others... but.. for the most part... there are nice people, jerks, loud, quiet, shy, funny, grumpy, friendly and crazy people everywhere.