Should the father have the choice on abortion?

[Bombila]

As the father of 4 sons I can attest to the fact that my part lasts longer than 5 minutes and it most certainly does impact my job, my schooling, my health, my finances etc.


And don't for a minute think that there's not health risks to the woman who decides to murder the child within her. It's not the "safe" alternative.

Nothing we do is 100% safe. However:

http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/safety.html

 

[pgp_protector]

The Man had a choice when he impregnated the woman.
He chose the woman
He chose wither or not to go forward with mating.
He chose to do it in or out of wedlock
He chose the type of person whom to do it with.

 

[Picture.Of.Obedience]

I dont think it should be all the moms choice, it is half the dads baby too.

 

[DeathMagus]

Men tend to think more logically than women

Psst... How're we gonna keep them convinced of that if you keep posting OPs that show little to no logical thought?
::retracts man license::


Ultimately, while in an ideal world the man would have a say, just as a fetus can't demand the use of the mother's body, similarly the father can't demand the use of the mother's body for the fetus.

And, frankly, if you're a man and you haven't discussed with your girl what will be done if she gets pregnant, even if you're using birth control, then you already made a stupid mistake and I have no sympathy for you.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

Psst... How're we gonna keep them convinced of that if you keep posting OPs that show little to no logical thought?
::retracts man license::


Ultimately, while in an ideal world the man would have a say, just as a fetus can't demand the use of the mother's body, similarly the father can't demand the use of the mother's body for the fetus.

And, frankly, if you're a man and you haven't discussed with your girl what will be done if she gets pregnant, even if you're using birth control, then you already made a stupid mistake and I have no sympathy for you.

So wait, if a man gets a woman pregnant, it's his own fault and he should have absolutely no say in the matter because he made a stupid decision anyway. But if the woman gets pregnant, it's "Oh you poor thing! Go ahead and do whatever you want because it's your body and even if it was your fault and you made a bad decision is doesn't matter!" I find that offensive.

The woman made just as much of a mistake as the man did.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

So wait, if a man gets a woman pregnant, it's his own fault and he should have absolutely no say in the matter because he made a stupid decision anyway. But if the woman gets pregnant, it's "Oh you poor thing! Go ahead and do whatever you want because it's your body and even if it was your fault and you made a bad decision is doesn't matter!" I find that offensive.

The woman made just as much of a mistake as the man did.

Obviously. But who made the mistake isn't at issue. Who has control over the fetus is. And that resides exclusively with the woman. And that's the single reason why men must stop being held responsible for child support.

 

[DeathMagus]

So wait, if a man gets a woman pregnant, it's his own fault

Yes. As well as hers. I wasn't discussing fault.

and he should have absolutely no say in the matter because he made a stupid decision anyway.

Here's where you misunderstood me. I didn't say he should have no say because he made a stupid decision. It's simply that if a fetus can't demand use of its mother's bodily fluids, then the father shouldn't be able to demand it for his future child either.

I have no sympathy for him because prior to having sex, even with contraceptive use, he should have sat down with his girl and said: "Hey - if the contraception fails and you end up pregnant, where will we go from there?" She'd then tell him what her views on the topic are, and he'd know exactly what he was risking. If she tells him "I'd probably get an abortion," and he has sex with her anyway, it seems silly for him to cry foul.

If you don't want your future child to be aborted, don't have sex with a girl who will abort it. If you don't bother checking with her regarding her views on abortion before sex, you're an idiot. And if you are having sex with a girl whom you can't trust to give you a straightforward, honest answer, you're also an idiot.

Now, if she lies about it, that'd be an exception, and I'd certainly have sympathy for the man who gets misled.

But if the woman gets pregnant, it's "Oh you poor thing! Go ahead and do whatever you want because it's your body and even if it was your fault and you made a bad decision is doesn't matter!"

Who said I have sympathy for women who get pregnant? I certainly didn't say any such thing, at least not in the manner you describe.

I find that offensive.

I find a double standard like that offensive too. It's a good thing I don't have one.

The woman made just as much of a mistake as the man did.

Right. The difference is that she already knows her views on abortion. If a man has sex with a girl who either would have an abortion if she got pregnant, or hasn't thought about it enough to have made up her mind...he's an idiot if he wants to keep any potential children from said girl. I have said nothing else regarding blame or sympathy towards the woman, so please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Now, if the question had been, "Should the man have a voice in the decision to abort?" I would say that, in an ideal situation, he should be part of the discussion. (The ideal situation assumes that he and the woman involved have a mutually-respectful relationship of equals, without abuse or intimidation.) Still, the final decision must rest with the woman, as she is the one whose body is tenanted, and she is the one who faces the prospect of pregnancy and childbirth.

I agree completely.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Obviously. But who made the mistake isn't at issue. Who has control over the fetus is. And that resides exclusively with the woman. And that's the single reason why men must stop being held responsible for child support.

I agree, sort of. I think that when two people agreed to become parents, then split up, the one raising the child(ren) should get some money to help for the cost from the other.

However, I do feel that men should get a similar period of time to decide not to become a parent, and legally opt out of all rights and responsibilities to the future child, sometime in the first few months of the pregnancy (so the woman still has time to also opt out of parenting). In cases where he didn't know, there would need to be a court case to prove that he knew or didn't know about the pregnancy if he wanted to opt out.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

I agree, sort of. I think that when two people agreed to become parents, then split up, the one raising the child(ren) should get some money to help for the cost from the other.

Yes, agreed. There's an implied contract there.

However, I do feel that men should get a similar period of time to decide not to become a parent, and legally opt out of all rights and responsibilities to the future child, sometime in the first few months of the pregnancy (so the woman still has time to also opt out of parenting). In cases where he didn't know, there would need to be a court case to prove that he knew or didn't know about the pregnancy if he wanted to opt out.

Agreed again. Responsibility is only fairly given if it is commensurate with authority. If a man has no authority over whether or not the child should be born, he should have no responsibility for it after it is born.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Agreed again. Responsibility is only fairly given if it is commensurate with authority. If a man has no authority over whether or not the child should be born, he should have no responsibility for it after it is born.

Unless, of course, he wants to be a part of that child's life. I think that most men do want to become fathers, when they find out.

I just think it only fair that both people get a choice to become parents or not.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Men tend to think more logically than women, so shouldn't they have the choice instead of the mother?

You may be right. Perhaps men do tend to make decisions based on cold facts, rather than emotional attachments.

I think it's far more common that women may face pressure by boyfriends or husbands to abort.

Autumnleaf, do you think a man should be able to force a woman to have an abortion?

 

[Autumnleaf]

You may be right. Perhaps men do tend to make decisions based on cold facts, rather than emotional attachments.



Autumnleaf, do you think a man should be able to force a woman to have an abortion?

Should a woman be able to force a woman to be aborted?

 

[Crazy Liz]

Should a woman be able to force a woman to be aborted?

You proposed that the man should make the choice. If he chose abortion but the woman didn't want it, she would be forced to have an abortion, according to your proposal.