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That is why I always test the spirits and search the Scriptures to see if they are so
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That is why I always test the spirits and search the Scriptures to see if they are soWhat a shameful outlook to think that worshipping on Sunday is a seal of the satanic. The scripture does not establish that worship is only acceptable by God on the sabbath.
Studying the scriptures to gain wisdom is fruitful, but some commentaries are designed to change the understanding of God's word.
Makes sense to meYour response of "I won't be here" is why I think study of the book of Revelation is crucial. Rev 7:14 - And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
You can't come out of something if you haven't been in it.....
As Christians, and those anticipating the coming of our Lord, should it be of importance to the body of Christ to study and understand the last book of the bible?
There are many incorrect theories floating around about what Revelations teaches, this being the case, shouldn't the church have the best understanding (as good as possible that is) in regards to this book?
Even move, do you think that Revelations is important to salvation and our mission to preach the gospel?
Sure a Christian should read and study the whole Bible. I think you do or at least claim to. Why should any more importance be given to Revelation the rest of the Bible or the NT?As Christians, and those anticipating the coming of our Lord, should it be of importance to the body of Christ to study and understand the last book of the bible?
There are many incorrect theories floating around about what Revelations teaches, this being the case, shouldn't the church have the best understanding (as good as possible that is) in regards to this book?
Even move, do you think that Revelations is important to salvation and our mission to preach the gospel?
There is no biblical basis for this doctrine. It comes to us through EGW.I think that its more shameful for us to assume what God does and doesn't care about. And if you didn't notice, I said it was the seal once it is forced through legislation. You do realize that's happening now right?
Think of it like this. This whole controversy is over worship and authority if you will. What could the mark of the beast be aside from something geared at gaining mans worship and having him acknowledge another authority besides God?
Ok...
Yep newspaper theology still draws em in and fills the coffers.Should it be studied? Yes, of course. It's difficult though since there is such a wide disagreement over the most basic elements of the letter. People can't agree over who it was written to and why or what type of writing it is.
It wouldn't be too much of a problem if everyone agreed on a general reference, such as it being written to and for a group of people in the first century sometime. But people don't treat it like that. Many treat it as if it were written for some distant future audience far removed from the first century. Further, people can't get their heads around the type of writing it is. We approach it with very westerinized thinking and think that everything in the book is either literal or metaphorical; it's either a predictive textbook or it isn't. We often don't allow for an author to be human; we don't allow him to use hyperbole, symbols, and vivid imagery.
What I see many people failing to see that the book of Revelation is written to and for a first century audience with a message that they will understand. What John is not telling them about is nuclear war, helicopters, UN or EU peace treaties, etc.. This should be evident to people, but it's often missed:
1:4 From John, to the seven churches that are in the province of Asia:
2:1 To the angel of the church in Ephesus
2:8 To the angel of the church in Smyrna
2:12 To the angel of the church in Pergamum
2:18 To the angel of the church in Thyatira
3:1 To the angel of the church in Sardis
3:7 To the angel of the church in Philadelphia
3:14 To the angel of the church in Laodicea
22:16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches.
The book opens and closes with a specific reference to the churches of Asia Minor. Two chapters of the book have explicit references and particular messages for each of those churches. How can it still be doubted that this book is written TO and FOR churches in Asia Minor in the first century?
Sometimes people will do really silly things like say "take the text literally unless it's obviously metaphorical", then they will turn right around and say that the 7 churches in Asia Minorare metaphorical/symbolical for church ages or types of churches throughout history! It doesn't get much more inconsistent. You might as well throw away the axiom if you're going to take such a clear literal reference to be some type of methaphor or symbol.
In failing to account for the genre and audience of the book people will start to interpret everything as if it's refering to events contemporary to us. Things like: helicopters, nuclear war, wild anti-christ speculation (to include any number of silly guesses: the RCC, Ronald Regan, Tony Blair, Kofi Anan, Barak Obama, Javier Solana, Sunday worship, computers, the internet, and on and on and on....), modern day peace treaties like the Geneva Accords, some Revived Roman Empire, the EU, the UN, NAFTA, etc... There is really no end to much of this nonsense so long as people fail to use a good method of interpretation.
So, should we study the book? Yes, absolutely. But by "study" we shouldn't take the book and start running rampant through the newspaper trying to piece together John's book from the Associated Press, Fox News, or CNN.
The dream about the forth beast in Daniel 7 causes some people to act fearful of things that are not clearly understood.
These people feel that their prophetic connection to God have revealed the mysteries of the word. The bible sez, if they ever say "Thus sayeth the Lord", and that thing does not come true, dont pay them no mind.
God has called Christians to faith in the Gospel, not in the doctrines of prophetic interpretation.
Where is it written that Sunday worship will be forced by legislation?
You're presenting a questionable doctrine about Sunday worship being the mark of the beast as if we're in violation of God's law. (We get it, you're the one keeping God's law.)
We are the ones who should be outraged:o because your doctrines were designed to scare ignorant people.
We know that you're quoting a false prophet rather than the word of God.
Consider this......
Same sex marriage is against God's law and designed to change God's law (not in the 10). This could be seen more as the mark of the beast, rather than offering God the same worship that SDA suppose to give out of a sincere heart.
The debate about worship and sabbath prove that words have clear meaning. God commanded sabbath as both a sign and a day of rest for the COI.
Christ gave His faithful "communion with bread and wine" as a sign in remembrance of Him.
There is no biblical basis for this doctrine. It comes to us through EGW.
The mark of the beast is in the hand or forehead. It is physical. Much like the chip that will be implanted when one recieves medical care under the new health care package within 3 years or you don't get medical care. Now that is cost reduction because it will exclude all genuine Christians. It will prevent you from getting medical care - buying or selling. That will mean no health insurance claims will be paid. Who will own the coverage?
bugkiller
It is all there for our benefit.. neglecting one because it is considered not relation to salvation, is not a good plan. Understanding Revelation may have more to do with saving your skin than saving your soul but it is just as beneficial. In fact, I would say that saving skin, means that the soul understood what was necessary for soul salvation in every instance.Sure a Christian should read and study the whole Bible. I think you do or at least claim to. Why should any more importance be given to Revelation the rest of the Bible or the NT?
Does Revelation affect our salvation? NO!! Is it necessary? NO!! Am I saying it is not important at all? No.
What can one do to stop what is prophecied in Revelation? Nothing! If your faith is in God what does it matter? None!
I think only the wicked wish to know so that they can live it up (sin) till the last moment. That should be read as also knowing how long they have to be ready. One is not promised enough breath to finish reading this post to include my sig.
bugkiller
It is all there for our benefit.. neglecting one because it is considered not relation to salvation, is not a good plan. Understanding Revelation may have more to do with saving your skin than saving your soul but it is just as beneficial. In fact, I would say that saving skin, means that the soul understood what was necessary for soul salvation in every instance.
It is my understanding that the mark of the beast will prevent you from doing business. And that is what this chip implant is for. It will restrict you in and from medical care. This is the buying selling of goods and services. Granted it is restricted to medical care for the time being. Have you not seen what governments do? Are you still unfamiliar with the concept I have presented with Isa 28:10, 13? Here is v 13: But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.It's in the bible, but as long as you think the mark is physical, you won't see it. Let's look at it like this: How can a physical implant, especially one regarding medical benefits, show your allegiance to God?
Is your focus being able to survive the tribulation? Why? What does end time events have to do with salvation? I find the end time events affecting the temporal. The end time events may be important to one who is not a Christian and understands about God. Have you read the Left Behind books? For those folks Revelation may be valuable to know what they are facing.It is all there for our benefit.. neglecting one because it is considered not relation to salvation, is not a good plan. Understanding Revelation may have more to do with saving your skin than saving your soul but it is just as beneficial. In fact, I would say that saving skin, means that the soul understood what was necessary for soul salvation in every instance.
What gets me is those who place its value on or pertaining to salvation. Jesus did not say anything in the book of Revelation as pertaining to salvation. If you can find it in the Gospels let me know. I did not say that Jesus said nothing about end time events. I said Jesus said nothing about them in relation to eternal life (salvation).What get's me is how someone can say what is or isn't important in regards to salvation. If it wasn't needed it wouldn't have been given, and it sure enough wouldn't contain a blessing for those who read, hear and understand the words that are written in the book.
Is your focus being able to survive the tribulation? Why? What does end time events have to do with salvation? I find the end time events affecting the temporal. The end time events may be important to one who is not a Christian and understands about God. Have you read the Left Behind books? For those folks Revelation may be valuable to know what they are facing.
I am a pre tibber all the way. How is Jesus going to come back with the sanits if they are still here? Even that allows for a mid trib position which I hold to be incorrect. Prophecy is very interesting but not a focal point for me. Especially when you have people here trying to get one to observe the law and leave Chirst Gal 5:2-4. Anybody who says the Sabbath is required for salvation or to maitain (keep) it is denying the redemption provided for by Jesus Christ as the above scripture states. You can not have both.
End time events have nothing to do with salvation (eternal life). Being born again does. Religious christians will be left behind. And yes I think the churches will be full of people then taking God seriously. People at church do not take God seriously. Should I say most or some people. I can not say how many. Church has become a form of godliness without any value the same as marriage. As long as we are receiving benefits (self gradification) who cares? After all it is about feeling good, correct? WRONG!
bugkiller
As Christians, and those anticipating the coming of our Lord, should it be of importance to the body of Christ to study and understand the last book of the bible?
There are many incorrect theories floating around about what Revelations teaches, this being the case, shouldn't the church have the best understanding (as good as possible that is) in regards to this book?
Even move, do you think that Revelations is important to salvation and our mission to preach the gospel?
It is my understanding that the mark of the beast will prevent you from doing business. And that is what this chip implant is for. It will restrict you in and from medical care. This is the buying selling of goods and services. Granted it is restricted to medical care for the time being. Have you not seen what governments do? Are you still unfamiliar with the concept I have presented with Isa 28:10, 13? Here is v 13: But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Now to further answer your question. Will the beast control commerce? Yes you will be restricted from all business not just health care without the mark. Rev 13:16, 17 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
The mark is a physical thing that you will get in the right hand or forehead, not the keeping of Sunday as a Sabbath or being punished for keeping the Sabbath. There will be religious presecution. The focus of it willl not be the religious Sabbath keeper. It will be you will worship the beast or else.
bugkiller
Just as one would do with any book, one must understand the writers of this book. Moreso than all the rest because this is the book of God. And the writers of the book of God were Jews. So when applying the imagery its important to look at it from the perspective of Biblical holidays and it makes a lot more sense that way.
Sounds like a good game plan!Just as one would do with any book, one must understand the writers of this book. Moreso than all the rest because this is the book of God. And the writers of the book of God were Jews. So when applying the imagery its important to look at it from the perspective of Biblical holidays and it makes a lot more sense that way.
Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:Is your focus being able to survive the tribulation? Why? What does end time events have to do with salvation? I find the end time events affecting the temporal. The end time events may be important to one who is not a Christian and understands about God. Have you read the Left Behind books? For those folks Revelation may be valuable to know what they are facing.
The same could be said about someone who denies the importance of the book of Revelation. Wait a second, it is: Rev 22:18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.I am a pre tibber all the way. How is Jesus going to come back with the sanits if they are still here? Even that allows for a mid trib position which I hold to be incorrect. Prophecy is very interesting but not a focal point for me. Especially when you have people here trying to get one to observe the law and leave Chirst Gal 5:2-4. Anybody who says the Sabbath is required for salvation or to maitain (keep) it is denying the redemption provided for by Jesus Christ as the above scripture states. You can not have both.
See, this is why the rapture doctrine is so dangerous. If you don't think you'll be here then you're right, you wouldn't need to know about this. The thing though is that you do have this book, which goes to great lengths to warn us about the end times. God isn't one for wasting time. If we didn't need Revelation, do you think we'd have it? If prophecy wasn't important to understand, do you think we'd have prophets? The very fact that the books of Daniel and Revelation exist ought to dispel the idea that God's people won't go through the final tribulation.End time events have nothing to do with salvation (eternal life). Being born again does. Religious christians will be left behind. And yes I think the churches will be full of people then taking God seriously. People at church do not take God seriously. Should I say most or some people. I can not say how many. Church has become a form of godliness without any value the same as marriage. As long as we are receiving benefits (self gradification) who cares? After all it is about feeling good, correct? WRONG!
bugkiller
What you gottcha me about? Seems to me that you are saying I am shallow and sick. Being tied up in end time events is not what my relationship with God is about. I understand there is nothing I can do to change what I don't like concerning those events, thus they are not important to me. All I see when these thing are discussed at church is newspaper theology. All I can do is giggle and go on. I have heard this for 40 years. And it is funny and foolishness. If you follow the lates end time preachers you just as well read the newspaper. They are taking the daily news and trying to apply it to prophecy. The meaning change as often as the news.That explains the devaluation on Revelation and your spiritual wellbeing in the days to come.Gottcha!!!
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