Should people have children if they can't afford it?

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I believe the pill has caused a lot of the worlds' problems I was there when it was first introduced and things were noticed straight away. First were the deaths from blood clots and later came the autism and aspergers Then came the problem women were having with getting fertilised - going to clinics to have a baby. Immunisations have been blamed for a lot but it was after the pill - and what else is to be expected!? People thinking they can do God's work for them - preventing their bodies from acting naturally - they was asking for it!
I took a group of 15 girls on a sales job once. We stayed at a hotel they was all skinny-dipping in the pool at night which amazed me. I asked, 'Hey, don't any of you have your periods?' Answer was they never had them! they got rid of them with the pill. I knew there and then that these girls were in for trouble in later life.

Woman I've known, that took birth control didn't have any of these problem. Usually they get off birth control and get pregnant. Their kids are normal. My mom had a kid with autism, but she was never on the pill.

 

[KWCrazy]

Are you talking about poor neighborhoods, or in general?

In General. I'm quoting Hillary.

On my street, we are one of three couples that I know of who are raising their grandchildren because the parents basically abandoned them. Last year for Christmas their mother got them nothing, their father bought them very little and their maternal grandmother gave them each a bottle of bubbles from the dollar store. What we are dealing with is the death of shame. Unwed teenage mothers are fawned over while religious girls who want to give themselves only to their future husbands are looked at as strange.

I was taught that a man supports his children. One who does not is not a man, just an old child.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Woman I've known, that took birth control didn't have any of these problem. Usually they get off birth control and get pregnant. Their kids are normal. My mom had a kid with autism, but she was never on the pill.

Well, and that does not mean that the condition was CAUSED by the pill.

 

[dogs4thewin]

In General. I'm quoting Hillary.

On my street, we are one of three couples that I know of who are raising their grandchildren because the parents basically abandoned them. Last year for Christmas their mother got them nothing, their father bought them very little and their maternal grandmother gave them each a bottle of bubbles from the dollar store. What we are dealing with is the death of shame. Unwed teenage mothers are fawned over while religious girls who want to give themselves only to their future husbands are looked at as strange.

I was taught that a man supports his children. One who does not is not a man, just an old child.

Today I would say that at my age ( 24) most people are no longer virgins rather they have been married or not, whereas in my mother's day that was NOT OK.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Define "afford"? Aren't children automatically supported by living in their parents households and their parents giving them food?

Being able to care for feed, cloth and shelter your children without monthly assistance.

 

[Hetta]

The problem with our carnal hearts is trying to see the future and if said children will be saint or a demon followers.

Trust me, this never crossed my mind when I was pregnant.

 

[Hetta]

But what about all the poor little kids being born with problems never heard of in my day

The same problems existed, they simply did not have a name. If you ever actually do any research, you will see that doctors were writing about issues such as cancer, autism etc., but they thought of it as "wasting sicknesses" and "demons". It is only since we left the dark ages behind and started researching these things that we gave them names.

 

[Hetta]

So is this about money or morality? Because Bristol Palin is about to have her second illegitimate child and apparently so long as she can feed and clothe them - partly through the money she got under false pretenses while giving lectures about sexuality morality - then that's all well and good.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So is this about money or morality? Because Bristol Palin is about to have her second illegitimate child and apparently so long as she can feed and clothe them - partly through the money she got under false pretenses while giving lectures about sexuality morality - then that's all well and good.

It is about both. While morality is important the fact is that moral and legal do not always match up.

Personally, I would rather people have a child out of wedlock and STEP up than to be married and yet expecting the government to help with their bad choices.

 

[malvina]

The same problems existed, they simply did not have a name. If you ever actually do any research, you will see that doctors were writing about issues such as cancer, autism etc., but they thought of it as "wasting sicknesses" and "demons". It is only since we left the dark ages behind and started researching these things that we gave them names.

I'm sorry we never saw or heard of autistic or aspergers etc - heaps of things! They all arrived after the pill like fertilisation problems as a whole most would get caught as soon a s man looked at a woman (as the saying went) Of course there were some unlucky barren people. You can't alter God's plan for our lives and expect to have no repercussions

 

[dogs4thewin]

I'm sorry we never saw or heard of autistic or aspergers etc - heaps of things! They all arrived after the pill like fertilisation problems as a whole most would get caught as soon a s man looked at a woman (as the saying went) Of course there were some unlucky barren people. You can't alter God's plan for our lives and expect to have no repercussions

so you are saying birth control causes such things?

 

[malvina]

so you are saying birth control causes such things?

No just the pill that alters the hormones of the woman - other methods are superficial that have been used since Ancient Times

 

[Hetta]

I'm sorry we never saw or heard of autistic or aspergers etc - heaps of things! They all arrived after the pill like fertilisation problems as a whole most would get caught as soon a s man looked at a woman (as the saying went) Of course there were some unlucky barren people. You can't alter God's plan for our lives and expect to have no repercussions

Autism did not "arrive" after the pill. It has only been "named" in the last few years. The 1960s are over 50 years ago now for goodness sake. If you honestly want to think that something in the pill "gets inside" a woman's body and affects the baby that she conceives usually some time after she stops taking it, that's up to you, but there is no science to support that supposition.

Bi-polar disease, anxiety, autism, schizophrenia - as I said, these were referred to as "demons" and people were locked up in asylums 100 years ago for showing these signs. The kids were referred to as "simple" and generally everyone just turned a blind eye. It's only in naming these differences that we got to know them better, but they aren't new. There is nothing new.

 

[Hetta]

It is about both. While morality is important the fact is that moral and legal do not always match up.

Personally, I would rather people have a child out of wedlock and STEP up than to be married and yet expecting the government to help with their bad choices.

So as long as you're rich, go ahead and have as many illegitimate kids as you like. Okay.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So as long as you're rich, go ahead and have as many illegitimate kids as you like. Okay.

I plan to have no kids.

 

[Hank77]

No just the pill that alters the hormones of the woman - other methods are superficial that have been used since Ancient Times

I would suggest .....
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/history-of-autism
One of the things that made the public more aware of autism was the movie Rain Man which is about an autistic savant.
"The estimated prevalence of savant abilities in autism is 10%, whereas the prevalence in the non-autistic population, including those with mental retardation, is less than 1%."
http://www.autism.com/understanding_savants

I think we can be assured that autism and other disorders on this spectrum are not caused by birth control pills. And like Cat, I know an Aspergers child who's mother had never taken birth control pills, her mother had never taken them, and before that they were not available. However, on looking back two generations on her father's side of the family there are two uncles, who were cousins, that were probably on this spectrum and research is leaning toward genetics as the cause.

 

[malvina]

I would suggest .....
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/history-of-autism
One of the things that made the public more aware of autism was the movie Rain Man which is about an autistic savant.
"The estimated prevalence of savant abilities in autism is 10%, whereas the prevalence in the non-autistic population, including those with mental retardation, is less than 1%."
http://www.autism.com/understanding_savants

I think we can be assured that autism and other disorders on this spectrum are not caused by birth control pills. And like Cat, I know an Aspergers child who's mother had never taken birth control pills, her mother had never taken them, and before that they were not available. However, on looking back two generations on her father's side of the family there are two uncles, who were cousins, that were probably on this spectrum and research is leaning toward genetics as the cause.

Yes I can understand that but it is not just the children that would be affected but their children also just like inherited diseases
No-one knows for sure of course but I can say that these problems that are so common in our children today were never heard of in my day.
Really there could be other things that have affected them like antibiotics for instance. Penicillin only came in when I was a girl but I've always thought it was the pill because that affects the seed of the woman

 

[Hank77]

Yes I can understand that but it is not just the children that would be affected but their children also just like inherited diseases

Once again, autism and autism spectrum disorders were diagnosed long before hormonal birth control even existed.

No-one knows for sure of course but I can say that these problems that are so common in our children today were never heard of in my day.

Obviously, from the articles sited, they did exist before your day.

Really there could be other things that have affected them like antibiotics for instance. Penicillin only came in when I was a girl but I've always thought it was the pill because that affects the seed of the woman

I can see from this statement that your day is also my day. Autism was being diagnosed long before the 50's, long before hormonal birth control was used.
In the case I sited there was no hormonal birth control used on either side of the family and yet Aspergers appeared in the family. So it makes no sense that it was caused by hormonal birth control methods.
This history also eliminates the idea that it is caused by vaccinations.

 

[Hetta]

I plan to have no kids.

Obviously I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about your attitude, which is that rich people can have as many illegitimate children as they like.

 

[Hetta]

Yes I can understand that but it is not just the children that would be affected but their children also just like inherited diseases
No-one knows for sure of course but I can say that these problems that are so common in our children today were never heard of in my day.
Really there could be other things that have affected them like antibiotics for instance. Penicillin only came in when I was a girl but I've always thought it was the pill because that affects the seed of the woman

Wait - women have "seeds"? Where?