Should oppressed groups just "get over it" meaning oppression?

[Chany]

In my opinion, yeah, get over it if it didn't affect you personally.

French people got over Nazi Germany.

That isn't to say there are no current issues caused by past events, but don't take it so personally.

eg: People in East Asian need to get over disliking Japan because of what old or dead people did. It's pathetic.

It's a bit harder when you are still feeling the effects of prior decisions. For example, in the case of Native American tribes and their land, Americans have forcibly deported them, relegated them into small areas, and ultimately took away their sovereignty. "Get over it" doesn't mean much when what you are supposed to be getting over still dramatically hurts you.

 

[tatteredsoul]

In my opinion, yeah, get over it if it didn't affect you personally.

French people got over Nazi Germany.

That isn't to say there are no current issues caused by past events, but don't take it so personally.

eg: People in East Asian need to get over disliking Japan because of what old or dead people did. It's pathetic.

This doesn't work if there is a continuation of the oppression dressed up as something else that, obviously, only the oppressed recognize (because it is happening to them.) And, how dismissive is it to proclaim said oppression is happening, only to be told to "get over it" by people who aren't affected by it.

That is the problem - not "getting over it," which is grossly insensitive to say the least. The problem is the ignorance of the transformation of the oppression into some othere monster - like the prison industry, white flight, tax hikes to displace families for the purposes of gentrification, and so on.

As I said, almost categorically the oppressed and oppressors are the only ones who recognize this, because it is [sickening] intimate relationship between the parties much like rape is between the victim and rapist.

 

[tatteredsoul]

It's a bit harder when you are still feeling the effects of prior decisions. For example, in the case of Native American tribes and their land, Americans have forcibly deported them, relegated them into small areas, and ultimately took away their sovereignty. "Get over it" doesn't mean much when what you are supposed to be getting over still dramatically hurts you.

Exactly.

 

[Dave-W]

French people got over Nazi Germany.

The Jews have not.

 

[Paradoxum]

It's a bit harder when you are still feeling the effects of prior decisions. For example, in the case of Native American tribes and their land, Americans have forcibly deported them, relegated them into small areas, and ultimately took away their sovereignty. "Get over it" doesn't mean much when what you are supposed to be getting over still dramatically hurts you.

In what way are they harmed now? Their Americans... aren't they? So in what way are they relegated to small areas?

 

[Paradoxum]

This doesn't work if there is a continuation of the oppression dressed up as something else that, obviously, only the oppressed recognize (because it is happening to them.) And, how dismissive is it to proclaim said oppression is happening, only to be told to "get over it" by people who aren't affected by it.

I don't think I claimed that current oppression didn't happen. The question was about the past.

If you want to make an argument about current oppression, fair enough.

That is the problem - not "getting over it," which is grossly insensitive to say the least.

Why? People today have only lived in the USA. The are Americans you want to cling to their group they aren't a part of. They never living in a society before the USA.

(I thought we were talking about America when I replied).

The problem is the ignorance of the transformation of the oppression into some othere monster - like the prison industry, white flight, tax hikes to displace families for the purposes of gentrification, and so on.

As I said, almost categorically the oppressed and oppressors are the only ones who recognize this, because it is [sickening] intimate relationship between the parties much like rape is between the victim and rapist.

I'm not sure what the point is here. The private prison industry is bad regardless of race or culture.


I get I may be wrong... but I'm not sure why modern people doesn't identify with the country they were born in.

 

[Paradoxum]

The Jews have not.

Young jewish people are still complaining about Germany?

 

[Dave-W]

Young jewish people are still complaining about Germany?

Many - especially in the Chassidic and Orthodox communities, will not own/drive Volkswagens, BMWs, Audis or Mercedes:

Or use any product from Bayer - the main supplier of "gas" to the death camps.

 

[RDKirk]

In my opinion, yeah, get over it if it didn't affect you personally.

French people got over Nazi Germany.

I know an elderly French woman who has not by any means gotten over Nazi Germany. Her sister and mother were raped to death by Nazi soldiers.

Oh, but you did say "...if it didn't affect you personally."

And that is the point. That old woman is still alive--many are still alive--who were directly affected personally by Nazi Germany. When they and their children (because they children are affected by the experiences of the parents) are all safely dead, you can talk about "getting over" Nazi Germany.

Slavery itself is not a real issue in America. Yes, there are some folk calling for reparations for slavery, but only because they're conflating the Jim Crow era with slavery.

And there are those of us--me, for instance--who very well remember the Jim Crow era. And there are people alive today who very much want to revive the Jim Crow era. I'm not "getting over it" until those Jim Crow nostalgists are dead.

 

[Dave-W]

And that is the point. That old woman is still alive--many are still alive--who were directly affected personally by Nazi Germany. When they and their children (because they children are affected by the experiences of the parents) are all safely dead, you can talk about "getting over" Nazi Germany.

Not really. There are families that had entire branches of their tree forcibly torn away. Cousins and aunts and uncles you never met, or were never born because they or their potential parents were killed.

That history is kept alive in the Jewish community. If not in the individual families, places like the Holocaust Museum here in DC keeps those records.

 

[RDKirk]

Not really. There are families that had entire branches of their tree forcibly torn away. Cousins and aunts and uncles you never met, or were never born because they or their potential parents were killed.

That history is kept alive in the Jewish community. If not in the individual families, places like the Holocaust Museum here in DC keeps those records.

I didn't say those affected by it would get over it. I said those not affected by it could at that point talk about getting over it.

But while people are still alive who were directly affected, and especially while people are still alive who are nostalgic for it...there is no "getting over it" to be expected.

 

[Dave-W]

I didn't say those affected by it would get over it. I said those not affected by it could at that point talk about getting over it.

Not what I was saying. There is a concerted effort in the Jewish community to "Never Forget."

https://flashtrafficblog.wordpress....s-of-our-time-standing-against-evil-genocide/

 

[tatteredsoul]

I don't think I claimed that current oppression didn't happen. The question was about the past.

If you want to make an argument about current oppression, fair enough.

But, it is an implication perhaps your answer did not consider. How can you get over oppression that started in the past, but continues in the future ? In that case, it affects generations, not just the people who were directly affected.

Then, the insensitivity needed to conclude people just "get over it" comes from a well of ignorance and/or understanding of what "it" is in the first place.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

But, it is an implication perhaps your answer did not consider. How can you get over oppression that started in the past, but continues in the future ? In that case, it affects generations, not just the people who were directly affected.

It is called Intergenerational Trauma. There is also Historical Trauma.

Then, the insensitivity needed to conclude people just "get over it" comes from a well of ignorance and/or understanding of what "it" is in the first place.

Agreed.

 

[brinny]

Should oppressed groups just "get over it" meaning oppression?

I was reading up on how the Belgians treated the Congolese over a century ago. I can't speak for all Europeans at that time, but King Leopold was an evil monstrous person. I am sorry if I sound rather unChristian. What bothers me about some of this racism and other evils done is that the Jews and especially black people are told to "get over it". Why would anyone tell a Jew, Armenian, an Australian Aborigine, or an East Asian to get over it? To me, how can anyone just get over what happened to their ancestors? The roots of what has been done to our ancestors are being felt today. For thousands of years up until now, men and women have been oppressed and humiliated for whatever reason, but are not told to "get over it".

Why is it okay for some groups to "get over it" and not for others? Today, how should we educate people or learn from the past so that slavery and oppression will never happen again? It isn't just Europeans that oppressed people but East Asians, Middle Easterners and Turks who have been the oppressors as well. How is it that only the Europeans are the bad guys; have historians been whitewashing history, at those descendants of those groups deny history?

For instance, the Japanese decades ago have oppressed other East Asians. Should the Filipinos and Chinese get over it? That is just an example of groups who either have been told this, but their descendants as well. My question is should we deal with what is going on today and learn from the past? Should we learn and tell the truth about and expose what oppressive groups have done? Should black people, for instance, get over slavery and segregation? That is my view. Whatever the reason, I don't think that any people should be told, "get over it"; I just think it is rather rude. I am interested in your opinions.

You mean like the oppressed people of Haiti who have been crying out for justice, after being silenced for so long?

Should the people of Haiti just "get over it"?

 

[tatteredsoul]

It is called Intergenerational Trauma. There is also Historical Trauma.



Agreed.

The only ways I can fathom people actually being proponents of the OP is

1. Through ignorance - literally INGORING what happens in the world around them

2. Through lack of knowledge of history

3. Throughout apathy

4. As troll trainees

5. Through other personality issues (mean, racist learned behavior)

6. Via schadenfreude


Those are especially true if you are commenting on someone else's issues, and you have never (nor do you plan to ever) experienced the oppression or subjugation other claim to experience. That bit baffles me too: that people who have no understanding or experience with the category of oppression have the audacity to tell others to get over it.


We may as well do that to families of rape victims, or shooting victims. They weren't directly affected, so surely they should just get over it.

The police just stopped publicly dragging, hosing and mauling by dogs black men and women no more than 60 years ago. My grandmother was arrested 40+ times when she was younger because her husband (even at the time) was white. They thought she was a prostitute, because they were interracial. This did not happen 10,000 years ago: it was maybe 50 years ago at the most. Many people are still ALIVE today who witnessed their parents go through things like this. It affects the generations.

I think most people are just tired of hearing people "complain" because they have never experienced anything similar, they are myopic in social injustices, and they want to sound strong and rational.

When everyone else is gone it will stop the complaining, and it will be "over," but that means the proponents of the OP will be alone to themselves. Then, who will hear their complaints of oppression when there is no one else to deflect to?

 

[Shiloh Raven]

The only ways I can fathom people actually being proponents of the OP is

1. Through ignorance - literally INGORING what happens in the world around them

2. Through lack of knowledge of history

3. Throughout apathy

4. As troll trainees

5. Through other personality issues (mean, racist learned behavior)

6. Via schadenfreude


Those are especially true if you are commenting on someone else's issues, and you have never (nor do you plan to ever) experienced the oppression or subjugation other claim to experience. That bit baffles me too: that people who have no understanding or experience with the category of oppression have the audacity to tell others to get over it.


We may as well do that to families of rape victims, or shooting victims. They weren't directly affected, so surely they should just get over it.

The police just stopped publicly dragging, hosing and mauling by dogs black men and women no more than 60 years ago. My grandmother was arrested 40+ times when she was younger because her husband (even at the time) was white. They thought she was a prostitute, because they were interracial. This did not happen 10,000 years ago: it was maybe 50 years ago at the most. Many people are still ALIVE today who witnessed their parents go through things like this. It affects the generations.

I think most people are just tired of hearing people "complain" because they have never experienced anything similar, they are myopic in social injustices, and they want to sound strong and rational.

When everyone else is gone it will stop the complaining, and it will be "over," but that means the proponents of the OP will be alone to themselves. Then, who will hear their complaints of oppression when there is no one else to deflect to?

As I sit here reading these comments telling people to just get over it because the past does not directly affect them, I have to shake my head. I can see that these people do not have the slightest clue about any of this. It is not all in the past for Native Americans or other people of color. Native Americans are still being marginalized, oppressed, and discriminated against. I can give examples if needed. There is a video I would like to recommend for you to watch. It is MSNBC's Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell called Rewrite: The Protests At Standing Rock. In this video, Lawrence O'Donnell addresses the real history of America and how Native Americans have really been treated. He does not mince words and he is very critical of America.

 

[newlightseven]

should justice pervert itself? God is a just God. He doesn't smile at oppression and tell the oppressed to get over it. God desires righteousness and he will repay the oppressor if not in this life the next or they may lose rewards in heaven. That doesn't mean that the oppressed should go out and do bad because vengeance belong to the Lord and he will repay. Just because the oppressed forgive doesn't mean that the oppressor won't suffer lost as the justice of God requires it or God wouldn't be just.

 

[keith99]

I've never heard any Jewish person I know blame their current situation on the holocaust. Whether they were successful or not, they took responsibility for their situation and kept moving forward.

This is in spite of the fact that there's a lot of anti-semitism still in the U.S. You only need to look as far as this forum to see many that virulently hate jews. Yet I've never heard any of them say that the "system" is to blame for their troubles.

So I think that's why when it comes to the holocaust, jews are given a pass in not "getting over it". They aren't using it as a scapegoat for their own failures...they simply want it remembered for what it was.

This. But there are similar things I just did not get until I heard personal stories. I knew about the depression and I knew it was even worse in Europe. I knew about the hyper-inflation in Germany. But it finally came into focus when I heard about a top rate professional whose lump sum pension check (e.g. his entire pension for his entire working life) came a day later than expected in the mail. Instead of the bottle of wine and quart of strawberries he planned to buy it only covered the wine.

I think your point is similar and I'm going to try to personalize it. Near me is an Armenian market. Their meat prices are amazing. Boneless ribeye at 8.99. I go there a lot. Often enough that the butcher has been known to ask if I'm buying my usual order. A couple of years ago I noticed signs saying they would be closed for the annual remembrance of the Armenian Holocaust. BUT aside from that I have never heard it mentioned. Not once in shopping there for over a decade. I would never tell them to 'just get over it' because as I see it they have, it does not control or even have much influence over their day to day life. But neither have they or should they (in my opinion) forget.

 

[brinny]

should justice pervert itself? God is a just God. He doesn't smile at oppression and tell the oppressed to get over it. God desires righteousness and he will repay the oppressor if not in this life the next or they may lose rewards in heaven. That doesn't mean that the oppressed should go out and do bad because vengeance belong to the Lord and he will repay. Just because the oppressed forgive doesn't mean that the oppressor won't suffer lost as the justice of God requires it or God wouldn't be just.

Amen.