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Should murderers be punished by the government?

Windmill

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Big discussion going on here

Now. Biblically, should murderers be punished by the government? If you were to be given full control over a country, would you enforce punishment for crimes, like murder? I say no, for the bible tells us to turn the other cheek-

[BIBLE]Luke 6:27-30[/BIBLE]

But what are your opinions on this, and what is their justification biblically? ^_^
 

Seraph1m

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Windmill said:
Big discussion going on here

Now. Biblically, should murderers be punished by the government? If you were to be given full control over a country, would you enforce punishment for crimes, like murder? I say no, for the bible tells us to turn the other cheek-

Luke 6:27-3027 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also. 30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

But what are your opinions on this, and what is their justification biblically? ^_^
This verse is not speaking about the governments authority to punish evil. It addresses individuals taking vengeance against those who have wronged them. You may want to start over with a verse in the proper context. Just a thought,
 
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ThirdAngel

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Hi, I just posted this on the other thread:

I do believe in the death penalty (for murder). The New Testament gives authority to the government to execute judgment in such matters.

“For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil, …for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Romans 13:3-4
(Note that the SWORD would not be used for anything other than killing)

“Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether it be to the king, as supreme, or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by Him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.” 1 Peter 2:13, 14

If you take these texts and combine them with the OT command to execute murderers, it seems pretty certain that the death penalty IS justified from the bible.

He who strikes a man (intentionally) so that he dies shall surely be put to death. Exodus 21:12

I do not think a drug offenses or such would be justified in the eyes of God, but we are subject to the laws of the land in which we find ourselves.
 
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BenchPress

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i say hang all child molestors and murderers. if we cracked down then future criminals will be less likely to commit their heinous crimes. and i dont see a problem with that. because i dont have urges to go around touching little kids and murder people. it cant be that hard to suppress those urges. if that sounds grim put yourself in the shoes of parents that have to deal with their baby children gettin raped and murdered by these sickos.

Solution number 2 would be ship all murderers and molestors to one of the aleutian islands or something and let them fend for themselves. at least it will give them a chance to find god right. i am a finite man with no patience for these people.

well think about it, when the jews were ruled by god he said that people were to be stoned if they didnt keep the sabbath. from someone elses point of view that may seem waaaaaay to harsh. so i dont see how punishing these people is soooo harsh in comparison with gods fourth commandment punishment. dang i sound like a blood thirsty crusader. well if im gonna crusade against something might as well be against people commiting atrocities right?
 
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Gods_Desert_Man

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Jesus says Iv come too give you a new law and that is love on another turn the other cheek. We should not ,kill any man lets leave that up to God.Moses gave the peaple that law bacause they didnt understand the fullfilment of prophiecies but we do and we need too pray for those that do wronglyI say a murderer rapes your child are murders your child bake him a cake.I know that might seem hard to do but thats what Jesus want you too do.Befriend him God says all those sins can be repentable but the only sin thats not is denieing the holy ghost.So its worse to God to denie the holy ghost than to rape are murder
 
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Harlan Norris

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Windmill said:
Big discussion going on here

Now. Biblically, should murderers be punished by the government? If you were to be given full control over a country, would you enforce punishment for crimes, like murder? I say no, for the bible tells us to turn the other cheek-

Luke 6:27-3027 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also. 30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

But what are your opinions on this, and what is their justification biblically? ^_^
It seems to me I read in the Bible that God picked the govenment under which we live,and that we should obey the law of the land.If that is so then the death penalty where it exists is Biblicaly God ordained.However Christians are instructed to turn the other cheek,to judge not that we not be judged,ect.So how does one deal with this?Well, I believe that within the constraints of our Christian ethic,we can determine guilt.But we can't pronounce sentence.That must be done by a judge picked by the government one lives in.In Colorado for instance the decision for life or death in a capitol case,rests with the jury.The jury determines guilt or innocence.If guilty is the decision,the jury goes back and decides whether the defendant should die.In this instance,I believe that a Christian must excuse theirself.This is allowed ,by the way.I know I did just that,and was excused.I broke no law.Mans or Gods.
 
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SassySDA

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BenchPress said:
i say hang all child molestors and murderers. if we cracked down then future criminals will be less likely to commit their heinous crimes. and i dont see a problem with that. because i dont have urges to go around touching little kids and murder people. it cant be that hard to suppress those urges. if that sounds grim put yourself in the shoes of parents that have to deal with their baby children gettin raped and murdered by these sickos.

Solution number 2 would be ship all murderers and molestors to one of the aleutian islands or something and let them fend for themselves. at least it will give them a chance to find god right. i am a finite man with no patience for these people.

well think about it, when the jews were ruled by god he said that people were to be stoned if they didnt keep the sabbath. from someone elses point of view that may seem waaaaaay to harsh. so i dont see how punishing these people is soooo harsh in comparison with gods fourth commandment punishment. dang i sound like a blood thirsty crusader. well if im gonna crusade against something might as well be against people commiting atrocities right?

I will no longer question why many people have trouble with "us christians".

Jesus plainly told us that ALL OF THE COMMANDMENTS are equal. If you break the least one, you've broken them all. In short that means He doesn't look any worse upon the murderer as He does the idol worshipper. None of us are without sin, and to God "sin is sin". Thank the good Lord that HE doesn't give up on us. None of us are "throw aways" in His eyes.

In short, we are no better than anyone else. A murderer is no worse than any sinner in God's eyes.

This whole country could use a good dose of "there but for the grace of God, go I".

In the meantime, try researching sex offenses on the net. The Department of Justice has some statistics that I think will shock a lot of people. First of all, this crime is not as uncommon as one might think. The statistics that show how many families have a "molestor" among them, in their ancestorical past, will really knock the rug out from under one. I am not certain what causes these urges to begin with, there are many hypotheses out there, and thank the good Lord there is much more research on it now, but I can tell you from the studying I have done, that it is a much more COMMON urge than most realize or want to acknowledge.

We, as a society, have TRIED the "throw them in a cell, lock the door and walk away for many years" routine, and we have been doing it now for a very long time. Someday maybe the powers that be will finally get that that just ISN'T working, and they will do the right thing which would be to provide mental health professionals to work with these individuals. Oh, I know, I know, "THEY CAN'T BE CURED". You've heard that as well as most all of the rest of society has heard. Well, I have one question for you then. Seeing as there haven't been any doctors working with these individuals, and all they have done is their time in a cell staring at the walls, just HOW DO WE KNOW they can't be cured? But that IS the lazy and the cheap way out, now, isn't it? We aren't going to bother or spend the time or money, because we already know that they can't be cured. We know no such thing. Nor do we have the right to label ANY HUMAN BEING in those terms. There are other illnesses that can't be cured...addictions are the first thing that come to mind. They aren't curable either, but the person who suffers from them, can, WITH HELP, learn to control those urges and live their lives IN recovery. That, my friends and neighbors, however, DOES take some effort. On the part of the ill AND the part of the mental health professionals in TEACHING them how to take control of their thought processes, learn what their triggers are, and ultimately to CONTROL them. We put them in prison for MANY years, more than enough time to work with them. But for the most part they sit in cells and rot. I know, I worked with them for many years, as a correctional officer. What is truly amazing, is that with the little programming these offenders DO receive while incarcerated, of all offenders, they are the LEAST likely to re-offend. Hey, statistics don't lie. The media and all of their hype have everyone believing that a sex offender, once released, immediately begins to stalk their next victim. There isn't one ounce of truth to that.

No human being should ever be considered a "throw away". If it were a member of your own family, someone you loved and cared about (statistics even show there is probably someone in your family history that suffered from this), you wouldn't want them treated that way.

Whatever happened to "treat others as you would want to be treated yourself?"

I leave with this one last question...how do we expect to teach VIOLENT CRIMINALS the RIGHT way to live in society by treating them violently? We teach by example, whether we realize it or not. If you put an animal in a cage, say a dog, and you poke and poke at it with an electric prod, it will bite the first person they can get a hold of once they find their way outside of that cage. People are no different.

Our penal system simply has not learned the definition of insanity, which is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

If the system took on the mindset of Jesus, and treated the incarcerated the way He would want them to be treated, I think we would see a miraculous improvement.
 
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