Should Messianic Jews support Jerusalem Third Temple?

[ToBeLoved]

One of the best arguments that I have ran into as to why
Messianic Jews, Messianic Gentiles and Christians should support the Orthodox Jewish community
in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple is
a statement by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus:

Luke 24:25

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"

How do you see Luke 24:25 relating to the Third Temple?

You haven't really explained what you think it means, seems to me by reading it in context it has to do with Jesus not being in the grave.

Am I missing something?

 

[visionary]

No commandment was given for man to build the next temple.

 

[DennisTate]

How do you see Luke 24:25 relating to the Third Temple?

You haven't really explained what you think it means, seems to me by reading it in context it has to do with Jesus not being in the grave.

Am I missing something?

True.... the immediate
context is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus being resurrected but......
because that event was predicted in the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets......

that verse sure seems to me to be saying that "all things" written in the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel
and the minor prophets should be BELIEVED by
the people who regard Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus as Messiah?

Doesn't it?

Luke 24:25

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"




Psalms 16:10

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Acts 2:27

"Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

 

[DennisTate]

No commandment was given for man to build the next temple.

I agree that man certainly does NOT
build the Revelation 21 Jerusalem Temple complex......
that may perhaps come down to the earth around the year 3030 or so......
that is for certain........
but one of the reasons why Ezekiel chapter 40 - 48 gives so many
specific descriptions could well be that men........
mere humans.... will indeed build the Jerusalem Third Temple.......

My theory at this time is that the Revelation 21 temple that comes down.....
is indented at the bottom so that it will fit perfectly over the remaining Ezekiel Third Temple complex......

 

[DennisTate]

If this is a Heavenly Temple, why are there "two tables to slay thereon the burnt offering, the sin offering and the trespass offering"?

Eze 40:39 And in the porch of the gate were two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering.

EXACTLY!

 

[DennisTate]

No commandment was given for man to build the next temple.

At this time in my life....
my understanding of Isaiah 45:1.4.5 is that a major political leader will be raised up.....
who does not personally know Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and/or the G-d of Abraham very well but.....

this leader will figure out a way for the
Jerusalem Third Temple to be financed.... at essentially zero cost to the Orthodox Jewish community.....

Here is one theory on how any of us could begin to
get prepared for this soon coming event....


North American churches should each have their own currency!

North American churches should each have their own currency!

 

[ToBeLoved]

True.... the immediate
context is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus being resurrected but......
because that event was predicted in the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets......

that verse sure seems to me to be saying that "all things" written in the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel
and the minor prophets should be BELIEVED by
the people who regard Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus as Messiah?

Doesn't it?

Luke 24:25

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"




Psalms 16:10

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Acts 2:27

"Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Ok. So how does Christ saying that we should believe the OT (which I do) mean we should rebuild the temple?

What I am not understanding is the temple connection that you say exists here.

 

[DennisTate]

Ok. So how does Christ saying that we should believe the OT (which I do) mean we should rebuild the temple?

What I am not understanding is the temple connection that you say exists here.

The implications of all this are at least somewhat scary.......

From Isaiah 66: 5.6 it seems to me that at the time of the rebuilding of the
Jerusalem Third Temple.... there will be an attempt to wrestle control of the
Holy of Holies and the restored Third TEmple out of the hands of the Orthodox
Jews.........
by somebody typified by Antiochus????

A significant number of Messianic Jews, Messianic Gentiles and Christians so
fear the coming of this Antiochus type.......
that they cannot bring themselves to face the need for the literal fulfillment of
Ezekiel chapter 40 - 48?!

 

[ToBeLoved]

A significant number of Messianic Jews, Messianic Gentiles and Christians so
fear the coming of this Antiochus type.......
that they cannot bring themselves to face the need for the literal fulfillment of
Ezekiel chapter 40 - 48?!

So let me speak hypothetically here in this post.

If it is written in the Bible, the Old Testament than it will come true. Now whether we have the correct understanding of those verses is debatable, but let's even put that aside for a moment.

Why would God Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth. Of all things, need us, unless He says to do it in scripture, to make His Word a reality?

I would say it may (again I'm treading carefully) be a lack of faith that one would think that we need to do something for God to fulfill His promises. That is to me in essence what you are saying.

If God is not calling us to rebuild the temple, why is man? Faith is that God does what He promises and says. I am not going to doubt God can do anything and that He will call His people if that is what He wants. I don't feel at all called by God to do that though.

 

[DennisTate]

So let me speak hypothetically here in this post.

If it is written in the Bible, the Old Testament than it will come true. Now whether we have the correct understanding of those verses is debatable, but let's even put that aside for a moment.

Why would God Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth. Of all things, need us, unless He says to do it in scripture, to make His Word a reality?

I would say it may (again I'm treading carefully) be a lack of faith that one would think that we need to do something for God to fulfill His promises. That is to me in essence what you are saying.

If God is not calling us to rebuild the temple, why is man? Faith is that God does what He promises and says. I am not going to doubt God can do anything and that He will call His people if that is what He wants. I don't feel at all called by God to do that though.

Good questions......
Adam and Eve had to make certain choices.......
they made the wrong ones!

Ancient Israel, all 12 tribes were faced with many choices.....
with some notable exceptions they made the wrong ones.

All Messianic Jews, Messianic Gentiles and Christians at this time.....
are being forced to search the scriptures as the Bereans did......
and we also have choices to make.........

.... millions of lives......(frankly... billions of lives).... depend on the choices that we will make in how we
understand the words of the Prophets?!

I could be wrong.....
I have been wrong many many times......
I promoted the "soul sleep" heresy from 1972 or 1973 until 1990 and
read the near death experience account of Dr. George Ritchie......

.... so I could be incorrect on this as well..... but basically......
if we Messianic Gentiles and Messianic Jews and Christians decide to
back up the Orthodox Jewish community in their desire to literally fulfill Ezekiel 40 -48
and if we do so in time for the Jerusalem Third Temple to be operation for the year 2030..... the 2000 year anniversary of the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus..... then I suspect strongly that .......
the year 2072.... will come with a billion or more healthy human beings alive and well.......

in comparison to the potential time line......
that depends on our choices.......
with the Jerusalem Third Temple operational by 2070... the two thousand year anniversary of the destruction of the Temple of Herod.........

 

[ToBeLoved]

Good questions......
Adam and Eve had to make certain choices.......
they made the wrong ones!

Ancient Israel, all 12 tribes were faced with many choices.....
with some notable exceptions they made the wrong ones.

All Messianic Jews, Messianic Gentiles and Christians at this time.....
are being forced to search the scriptures as the Bereans did......
and we also have choices to make.........

.... millions of lives......(frankly... billions of lives).... depend on the choices that we will make in how we
understand the words of the Prophets?!

So show me that God told us to build a third temple.

I am not seeing the scriptural reference and until I do, it is all what you think we should do and not what God tells us to do.

Please give the scripture. Please directly link the scripture to rebuilding a third temple.

 

[DennisTate]

So show me that God told us to build a third temple.

I am not seeing the scriptural reference and until I do, it is all what you think we should do and not what God tells us to do.

Please give the scripture. Please directly link the scripture to rebuilding a third temple.

Again.... these are good questions.....
I am NOT actually advocating that American or Canadian Messianic Jews or Christians actually
BUILD the Jerusalem Third Temple.

I am not even advocating that Israeli Messianic Jews participate in rebuilding the literal Third Temple.....
they may not feel complete peace of mind to do so.......

I am promoting the idea of us lending political and moral support and encouragement to
the Orthodox Jewish community........

for them to build and carry out the rituals given to them by Moses / Moshe........
I personally...... have no idea how to carry out the simplest Levitical style ritual
that I firmly believe will take place on the restored Third Temple.......
I personally am incompetent to assist in the smallest way.... in any of this......

I am advocating that we Messianic Jews, Messianic Gentiles and Christians all over the world....
become a little bit more like ancient King Cyrus of the Medo - Persian Empire.... who gave
freedom of religion to Jews......
as well as to 127 provinces of the empire!

Some of us may feel an urging to contribute to the fund for the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple.....
that P. M. Benjamin and President Donald Trump might perhaps
organize......
others of us may not feel promoted to participate in that venture at all......
but we should become more well informed......... because the year 2030 is coming up fast!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again.... these are good questions.....
I am NOT actually advocating that American or Canadian Messianic Jews or Christians actually
BUILD the Jerusalem Third Temple.

I am not even advocating that Israeli Messianic Jews participate in rebuilding the literal Third Temple.....
they may not feel complete peace of mind to do so.......

I am promoting the idea of us lending political and moral support and encouragement to
the Orthodox Jewish community........

for them to build and carry out the rituals given to them by Moses / Moshe........
I personally...... have no idea how to carry out the simplest Levitical style ritual
that I firmly believe will take place on the restored Third Temple.......
I personally am incompetent to assist in the smallest way.... in any of this......

I am advocating that we Messianic Jews, Messianic Gentiles and Christians all over the world....
become a little bit more like ancient King Cyrus of the Medo - Persian Empire.... who gave
freedom of religion to Jews......
as well as to 127 provinces of the empire!

Some of us may feel an urging to contribute to the fund for the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple.....
that P. M. Benjamin and President Donald Trump might perhaps
organize......
others of us may not feel promoted to participate in that venture at all......
but we should become more well informed......... because the year 2030 is coming up fast!

Well thanks for clairfying.

I disagree, but let's leave it at that because I think I made my point and others probably want to talk.

 

[visionary]

The only thing that triggers any indication of a rebuilding of a temple, is the prophecy of ...

2 Thess 2:4 opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, and as a result he takes his seat in God’s temple, displaying himself as God.

 

[DennisTate]

The only thing that triggers any indication of a rebuilding of a temple, is the prophecy of ...

2 Thess 2:4 opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, and as a result he takes his seat in God’s temple, displaying himself as God.

YES... that is definitely one of the Christian Bible
predictions that sure seems to indicate the reality of a soon coming
Jerusalem Third Temple......
that the dark side will attempt to take over.... for perhaps two and half or perhaps 3.5 years....
or at least 2.5 or 3.5 days?????

 

[DennisTate]

Well thanks for clairfying.

I disagree, but let's leave it at that because I think I made my point and others probably want to talk.

FRankly... I think that you did great and added a lot to this discussion and I suspect that many readers would
prefer that you continue to comment.......... at least until they can do more research on this potentially rather controversial question?

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

Ezekiel's Temple, the Third Temple in Israel. - Ezekiel's vision

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again.... these are good questions.....
I am NOT actually advocating that American or Canadian Messianic Jews or Christians actually
BUILD the Jerusalem Third Temple.

I am not even advocating that Israeli Messianic Jews participate in rebuilding the literal Third Temple.....
they may not feel complete peace of mind to do so.......

I am promoting the idea of us lending political and moral support and encouragement to
the Orthodox Jewish community........

for them to build and carry out the rituals given to them by Moses / Moshe........
I personally...... have no idea how to carry out the simplest Levitical style ritual
that I firmly believe will take place on the restored Third Temple.......
I personally am incompetent to assist in the smallest way.... in any of this......

I am advocating that we Messianic Jews, Messianic Gentiles and Christians all over the world....
become a little bit more like ancient King Cyrus of the Medo - Persian Empire.... who gave
freedom of religion to Jews......
as well as to 127 provinces of the empire!

Some of us may feel an urging to contribute to the fund for the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple.....
that P. M. Benjamin and President Donald Trump might perhaps
organize......
others of us may not feel promoted to participate in that venture at all......
but we should become more well informed......... because the year 2030 is coming up fast!

I do not think the Jewish people in Israel from what I understand do not like Christians messing with their temples and promoting things as Christians to them the Jewish people.

If we as Christians push our weight around, since their are billions of us, is that fair to the smaller population of Jews from that country?

I don't do that. Unless God says so, I don't do anything. From what I understand their are many Christian missionaries right now in Israel and the Jewish people feel that they are being over run with that teaching.

It is not loving to take over or over come anyone's free will to live and believe what they believe.

And as a side note, 2030 A.D. or any year is complete speculation on anyone's part. Only the Father knows the day of Christ's return, Yeshua does not even know (or the Son of God, don't know if I said that wrong).

So, IMHO, this is overstepping boundaries on their religion and that we have much more people in Christianity does not mean that we should do things God does not tell us to do. God has plans for the Jewish peoples still and Jerusalem. You can step negatively on God's plan for the peoples. They are STILL God's chosen people.

 

[DennisTate]

Ezekiel's Temple, the Third Temple in Israel. - Ezekiel's vision

This is very helpful......
have you ever read about the Gihon Spring Theory?

Ernest L. Martin - Wikipedia

In his 1999 book The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot, Martin argued that the Haram al-Sharif is not the location of the last Temple. This was significant given his relationship with Herbert W. Armstrong whose editorial in The Plain Truth magazine was cited by Denis Michael Rohan as a reason for setting fire to the Al Aqsa mosque during the 1960s.

The basis of this work began with Martin's first visit to Jerusalem in 1961 when he first met Benjamin Mazar and later his son Ory Mazar, who informed him of his belief that the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel were located on the Ophel mound to the north of the original Mount Zion on the southeast ridge. In a 1996 draft report to support this theory Martin wrote: "I was then under the impression that Simon the Hasmonean (along with Herod a century later) moved the Temple from the Ophel mound to the Dome of the Rock area." However, after studying the words of Josephus concerning the Temple of Herod the Great, which was reported to be in the same general area of the former Temples, he then read the account of Eleazar who led the final contingent of Jewish resistance to the Romans at Masada which stated that the Roman fortress was the only structure left by 73 C.E. "With this key in mind, I came to the conclusion in 1997 that all the Temples were indeed located on the Ophel mound over the area of the Gihon Spring".[4] From these conclusions Martin produced his book in which he asserted that the Temples of Jerusalem were located over the Gihon Spring and not over the Dome of the Rock. He wrote: "What has been amazing to me is the vast amount of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian records that remain available from the first to the sixteenth centuries that clearly vindicate the conclusions that I have reached in this book of research."

 

[DennisTate]

I do not think the Jewish people in Israel from what I understand do not like Christians messing with their temples and promoting things as Christians to them the Jewish people.

If we as Christians push our weight around, since their are billions of us, is that fair to the smaller population of Jews from that country?

I don't do that. Unless God says so, I don't do anything. From what I understand their are many Christian missionaries right now in Israel and the Jewish people feel that they are being over run with that teaching.

It is not loving to take over or over come anyone's free will to live and believe what they believe.

And as a side note, 2030 A.D. or any year is complete speculation on anyone's part. Only the Father knows the day of Christ's return, Yeshua does not even know (or the Son of God, don't know if I said that wrong).

So, IMHO, this is overstepping boundaries on their religion and that we have much more people in Christianity does not mean that we should do things God does not tell us to do. God has plans for the Jewish peoples still and Jerusalem. You can step negatively on God's plan for the peoples. They are STILL God's chosen people.

You are correct that the Jewish people do not want to be pushed around...... and they especially don't want Christian denominations attempting to take over control of the Temple Mount itself......
we Christians know essentially ZERO about the Levitical rituals but......

according to the belief in Moshiach ben Ephrayim / Joseph / Yosef,
Messiah son of Joseph...... somebody from the lost tribe of Ephrayim will actually succeed in uniting much of the world around the cause of the Jews rebuilding their Jerusalem Third Temple.......
and it will NOT be Moshiach ben Ephrayim who wants to take over there..... that is another significant person to come?!