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Should It Really Be Tolerated?

Electric Sceptic

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Robert the Pilegrim said:
The Torah forbids sex outside of marriage
Jesus disobeyed the Torah several times. Its injunction against something is no proof that Jesus did not do that thing.

Robert the Pilegrim said:
Jesus's family is mentioned, but no wife,
Many aspects of Jesus' life aren't mentioned. That doesn't mean they didn't exist. And there is the point that I have seen made several times, that for a rabbi to be not married would have been sufficiently unusual that it would have warranted a mention.

Robert the Pilegrim said:
He put his mother in the care of the beloved disciple, but makes no arrangements for his wife or children (and apparently has no children who are old enough to take care of his mother),
Perhaps he thought his mother needed care in a way his wife didn't; perhaps he thought his children could take care of his wife, while Mary's other children couldn't. Again, this is no proof that Jesus wasn't married.

Robert the Pilegrim said:
Jesus declared that looking at women for the purpose of sexual pleasure was committing adultery in the heart,
Obviously, this does not preclude marriage, or no Christian would ever marry.

Robert the Pilegrim said:
He was the flawless lamb, i.e. sinless
I don't see how this is relevant.

Please note that I'm not suggesting that Jesus was either married or had sex; I am merely saying that from the gospel accounts, we have no basis at all on which to form any opinion on the issue.
 
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alli_boo

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tryptophan said:
Make sure the teachers know that what they and the students are doing is sexual harassment. Then remind them that they need to report any sexual harassment that happens by law, or else they will face the legal system. And if they continue, they will lose their job and might even end up in jail.

P.S. Could we get off this pointless conversation which has nothing to do with the OP?
IM sorry but I have to disagree with you here. For the past 3 years I have wrote every incident occurred down with dates, times, and witness lists, and detailed descriptions of what occured. The school could care less, and it shows. They do not discipline the teachers or the students. The only way any justice would be served would be to get a lawyer and sue the school, and quite frankly I dont have money for that, and I dont think it would do any good to sue a corrupt system anyways....
 
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tryptophan

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alli_boo said:
IM sorry but I have to disagree with you here. For the past 3 years I have wrote every incident occurred down with dates, times, and witness lists, and detailed descriptions of what occured. The school could care less, and it shows. They do not discipline the teachers or the students. The only way any justice would be served would be to get a lawyer and sue the school, and quite frankly I dont have money for that, and I dont think it would do any good to sue a corrupt system anyways....
Well, I'm not sure what to say. Have you tried the police?
 
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Norseman

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alli_boo said:
I have a few questions for all of you guys out there.

What would you consider sexual harrasment? What do you think schools should do to prevent it? Would you let it go on in your child's school? And what can be done to educate children about it?

I'll share part of my story to let you understand why Im asking this. I've always had a big problem in school, Starting in 8th grade several nasty rumors were started about me, including one about a hairbrush. I was harassed on a daily basis, and finally I decided to press charges on all the students, and the teachers that were involved (Yes the teachers were actually engaging in it.) By 9th grade the rumors escalated, and it went from rumors to people adding on and calling me a lesbian and a dike and spreading more rumors. After thanksgiving I got my hair cut short, which made the rumors short. Again we spent another year filing reports on students and teachers, and even had meetings with the district. And to this day- to a degree, the harrasment hasnt stopped. For the most part Ive learned to deal with it. But I want to know what could be done to prevent it for others in the future, and what might be different ways of handling situations like mine.

Thanks Very Much For Your Comments and Opinions!

A hairbrush?

Sorry. :sorry:

Okay well firstly, rumors are easy to spread. Saying someone did something is especially easy to spread because it's gossip, there's no way to prove otherwise without something along the lines of a police investigation, and people tend to accept things that aren't too far from the norm of everyday life without question. However, many of the people who confront you with such rumors probably realize there's no truth to them, and rather use them as childish insults, not unlike someone calling you a name in full knowledge that it isn't true. Unfortunately, there's that old saying "repeat a lie long enough and it becomes the truth", and that's what happens with rumors. They start off being blatant lies, but as more and more people hear the same thing, even if it all came from the same untrustworthy source, it starts to become accepted as a truth.

The only answer to this is to charge such people with slander, and hope they learn their lesson. If they don't, the only answer is to keep at it, and make sure they don't pass such rumors without a cost.

Now as for the claims about you being a lesbian, you could find a nerd and date him. Think of this as a two-fold benefit; you obviously can't be a lesbian if you're dating a guy, and he of course gets the benefit of not being quite so nerdy anymore. Take a few days sort of picking through them, because one nerd will almost invariably lead you to others. Once you have a selection, give it a shot. I'd estimate a 75-80% chance of a yes. And if he says no, he's a nerd, so what? Forget about him. Pick someone else. Remember though, this isn't dating for love, it's dating to make sure you can't be called a lesbian, so pick a guy that you'd find hard to become attached to (we nerds can grow on you, ya know?). That, or pick a nerd you like, and get a legitimate relationship with him (if you're opposed to dating for reasons other than love). Believe me, most of us are like sheep to a slaughter, we have no idea what we're getting ourselves into and have no social life beyond our computers and the occassional game of D&D.

As for the hairbrush thing, I dunno. You can't prove it didn't happen, but constant legal action should keep any rumors about you between friends only, and that should stem the flow of misinformation. It's better than letting rumors run rampant around your school.
 
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Clem is Me

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alli_boo said:
Heh a pointless arguement that had nothing to do with the orginal post anyways. Im sorry but I dont see how you can win anyways, Its just everyone's opinions. So your winning over anothers opinions? Hmmm doesnt sound right does it? More like you just made a fool of yourself.

Oh, dear. I would hate to make a fool of myself over an opinion.
 
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Clem is Me

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Subordinationist said:
Better at stating opinions?



God cares about people too. Just because you don't think He does doesn't mean he doesn't. In fact, the way He wants us to be is directly helpful to achieving friendship, peace, and harmony.



You are way too rude. Why not move to an agnostic forum where you can badger the believer's all you want?



Thank you, but I am probably going to get married when I am ready. Lifelong celibacy is most likely not going to happen. I am waiting until I am out of the teen years and find a great wife.



PS: I also like how you side-stepped almost all my responses into one several-sentenced reply.



.
Better at forming, anylizing and stating opinions, yes.

There is no God that I can see so I figure we should go ahead and fix problems using reason and compassion instead of superstition and insecurity.

Why don't you move to a part of the forum where non-superstitious ideas are not allowed?

Good luck with that. You have a 35-50% chance.

I like how you expect me to sit there and play quote unquote with you all weekend.
 
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C

crashedman

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Subordinationist said:
Granted. But the fact that his romantic life is totally ignored or seemingly nonexistent should be taken into account, when we read the views of Paul, whose beliefs were based on the teachings of Christ. Paul's preference for celibacy, the ignoring and absence of Jesus-romance and Apostle-romace, and Jesus' tale of no marriage in heaven, should not be over-looked or down-played.

Celibacy isn't for everyone, nreither should it be essentially seen as a form of liberation or integrity. In order to try and find a Christ-like life, I decided to leave my girlfriend and leave any sexual expression to my sense of humour.

Others think I'm crazy for not ataking an active interest in women now, but I don't care now. I had one major chance at marriage in my lifetime and I screwed it up.


Crashedman
 
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Robert the Pilegrim

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Cutting and pasting from below

Electric Sceptic said:
Please note that I'm not suggesting that Jesus was either married or had sex; I am merely saying that from the gospel accounts, we have no basis at all on which to form any opinion on the issue.
This last sentence exactly the impression I received from your early
posts.
I just want to clarify some terminology and general practice when doing history.'Proofs' are generally left to mathematicians, with respect to most interesting issues one looks for 'evidence', and evaluates it.
To state that there is no basis upon which to form an opinion is to state that the available evidence does not speak at all to the issue.

Robert the Pilegrim said:
The Torah forbids sex outside of marriage
Electric Sceptic said:
Jesus disobeyed the Torah several times. Its injunction against something is no proof that Jesus did not do that thing.
Those times he disobeyed the Torah itself, as well as those times he disregarded the rules of the Pharasees, he gave specific reasons. With respect to sex outside of marriage, his ruling on divorce and on looking at women for lustful reasons indicates he considered that prohibition to be fully in effect add his sinlessness and you have evidence that he did not have sex outside of marriage.
Robert the Pilegrim said:
Jesus's family is mentioned, but no wife,
Electric Sceptic said:
Many aspects of Jesus' life aren't mentioned. That doesn't mean they didn't exist. And there is the point that I have seen made several times, that for a rabbi to be not married would have been sufficiently unusual that it would have warranted a mention.
The fact that his family is mentioned shows that his personal life is not being neglected, it provides evidence that his non-existant wife would have been mentioned. When he goes back to visit his hometown the people who grumble about him talk about his father and mother, his brothers and sisters, but not his wife (or children).
And who is supporting his wife (and children) while he is off for a year healing and preaching?
I am not aware of any evidence that he was a rabbi before he was baptized by John the Baptist.

Robert the Pilegrim said:
He put his mother in the care of the beloved disciple, but makes no arrangements for his wife or children (and apparently has no children who are old enough to take care of his mother),
Electric Sceptic said:
Perhaps he thought his mother needed care in a way his wife didn't; perhaps he thought his children could take care of his wife, while Mary's other children couldn't. Again, this is no proof that Jesus wasn't married.
See above.
Just because you can come up with alternative hypotheses doesn't make the evidence go away.

The evidence is clearly there, and it is in favor of Jesus not being married and not have engaged in non-marital sex. You are free to hold the opinion that it is not conclusive, not "proof", but it most certainly exists.
 
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