Should It Really Be Tolerated?

[Clem is Me]

And THAT is why we fail.

 

[HouseApe]

alli_boo,

There is a basic human instinct that stops this kind of behavior. It is called empathy. Empathy causes you to feel pain and sadness when you see others in pain. It is a genetic trait, and almost everyone has it. Humans are social animals and it developed to maintain cohesion within the community.

The fact that we have it doesn't mean that it is properly developed and understood at your tender young age, and younger. However, it is (along with love) the most important human emotion. Their should be classes held everyday at every grade of school designed to help develop peoples empathetic capabilities. Children should be made to feel homely for a day, so that they can see what it feels like when they call someone ugly. Children should be made to feel like an outsider for a day, to see what it feels like not to be included with other kids in their games. I'm sure you can imagine a lot more scenarios.

But if empathy were taught, discussed and experienced by children throughout their school lives, the problems you've faced would be diminished greatly. And those who continue to not show proper empathetic behaviour could be flagged for the police as potential future wife beaters and murderers.

Their is something that can be done about situations like yours as I've described above. I am afraid, however, it will never happen. The reason is that empathy is a genetic, evolutionary trait. It lays the foundation for morality outside of the traditional Christian view of morality. So, in the USA anyway, I think that most parents would never allow that kind of move away from tradition.

 

[alli_boo]

alli_boo,

There is a basic human instinct that stops this kind of behavior. It is called empathy. Empathy causes you to feel pain and sadness when you see others in pain. It is a genetic trait, and almost everyone has it. Humans are social animals and it developed to maintain cohesion within the community.

The fact that we have it doesn't mean that it is properly developed and understood at your tender young age, and younger. However, it is (along with love) the most important human emotion. Their should be classes held everyday at every grade of school designed to help develop peoples empathetic capabilities. Children should be made to feel homely for a day, so that they can see what it feels like when they call someone ugly. Children should be made to feel like an outsider for a day, to see what it feels like not to be included with other kids in their games. I'm sure you can imagine a lot more scenarios.

But if empathy were taught, discussed and experienced by children throughout their school lives, the problems you've faced would be diminished greatly. And those who continue to not show proper empathetic behaviour could be flagged for the police as potential future wife beaters and murderers.

Their is something that can be done about situations like yours as I've described above. I am afraid, however, it will never happen. The reason is that empathy is a genetic, evolutionary trait. It lays the foundation for morality outside of the traditional Christian view of morality. So, in the USA anyway, I think that most parents would never allow that kind of move away from tradition.

That is exactly what I feel (about the schools not doing anything). I agree with you about empathy, and your ideas for teaching it-- It should be allowed I think.

 

[HouseApe]

By the way, try not to let all this get you down (I know that is really hard). When someone makes a rotten comment to you just smile and say "thanks for being a jerk to me" and walk away. That might push them to feel a little empathy while you maintain your dignity. Also remember that your troubles have made you a better person than them. But show a little empathy for them, it is an ugly life when you have to go through it being stupid.

Sooner than you realize it, you'll be ready for college. And those problems will vanish. You get to start over, and you get to start the "real" part of your life.

 

[Star_Pixels]

I have a few questions for all of you guys out there. What would you consider sexual harrasment? What do you think schools should do to prevent it? Would you let it go on in your child's school? And what can be done to educate children about it?

What I would consider sexual harrassment is any form of harrassment dealing with sexuality. This includes calling a person a lesbian because her hair is short or she looks tomboyish (minor), or actually molesting a girl because you want to make her cry (major).

What I think schools ought to do to prevent it is increase teaching about tolerance among genders and sexuality, and to not allow any teacher who takes part in the harrassment to continue teaching. In fact, they should hire people who'd tattle on the harrassers or even have them arrested!

I would not let it go on at my child's school, and if we sit kids down and teach them that sexuality is a little more complicated than they think, and not some play toy to harrass people with, they might stop!

I'll share part of my story to let you understand why Im asking this. I've always had a big problem in school, Starting in 8th grade several nasty rumors were started about me, including one about a hairbrush. I was harassed on a daily basis, and finally I decided to press charges on all the students, and the teachers that were involved (Yes the teachers were actually engaging in it.) By 9th grade the rumors escalated, and it went from rumors to people adding on and calling me a lesbian and a dike and spreading more rumors. After thanksgiving I got my hair cut short, which made the rumors short. Again we spent another year filing reports on students and teachers, and even had meetings with the district. And to this day- to a degree, the harrasment hasnt stopped. For the most part Ive learned to deal with it. But I want to know what could be done to prevent it for others in the future, and what might be different ways of handling situations like mine.

Thanks Very Much For Your Comments and Opinions!

What could be done? Sue the hell out of the schools and have everything reported. That's all you CAN do! But be happy you're a girl. When guys report sexual harrassment it's disregarded real fast, but girls are taken very seriously.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Sex and school:

All fundamantal education should be finished by the sixth grade, at which point all children should be ready for secondary which has little or no fundamentals taught.
If the child can't do long division by sixth grade it must remain there until it can or until it's 18 and can be forced to join the Armed Forces where the training can be forced.

First response, force

Legalised prostitution should be made available to anyone who has passed puberty based on grades.

I don't know who would have more fun, the psychiatrists coming up with hypotheses about what would cause such a suggestion or the psychologists pointing out the various and sundry problems this would cause.

Let me indulge my net.psychic powers, you think psychiatry is a bunch of bildge water.

Clothing and meals should also be doled out based on grades. School should have no extracurricular activities that do not adhere very specifically to the higher maths, sciences, literature and crafts, and these should be based entirely on performance. No sports, no theology, no arts or music.

One-dimensional view of brain development and human development.

Let the little cretins pay for that stuff on their own time and with their parent's cash.

name calling

Anyone recieving an F in two semesters of the same class is shipped to a military academy and beaten until they are old enough to join the armed forces.

Yeesh.

Anyone caught not using a sanctioned prostitute for sexual activity will recieve the above treatment.

Can't have sex with your wife or girlfriend, eh?

The parents of a child sent to military school will be forced to joined the armed forces for a period not to exceed their child's time in the military academy and the armed forces.

It would work.

I'm curious, how many years have you taught school? In what grades and what neighborhoods?

You are one of the most empathy-challeged people I've seen in a long time.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

But be happy you're a girl. When guys report sexual harrassment it's disregarded real fast, but girls are taken very seriously.

Errr, she just told you that she was ignored for over a year.
And that is not an uncommon occurance.

 

[Clem is Me]

First response, force
I don't know who would have more fun, the psychiatrists coming up with hypotheses about what would cause such a suggestion or the psychologists pointing out the various and sundry problems this would cause.

Let me indulge my net.psychic powers, you think psychiatry is a bunch of bildge water.
One-dimensional view of brain development and human development.
name calling
Yeesh.
Can't have sex with your wife or girlfriend, eh?
I'm curious, how many years have you taught school? In what grades and what neighborhoods?

You are one of the most empathy-challeged people I've seen in a long time.

Nope I enjoy psychology quite a bit, actually. Legalised prostitution is a good idea for teens, especially males. The way we treat sex in this society is pretty conducive to aggressive sexual behavior among those who can least control their emotions and desires. It disposes kids in adolescence to play mind and social sex games out of sight of the adults who could possibly help them through it. It forces young males to choose between abstinence, which is cruel and pointless and victemizing young girls who have not yet finished their schooling and become socially independant people. It forces girls to compete with each other in ways that are nothing more than visual and sexual instead of intellectual. It forces teens to rely on other teens to gratify themselves, and teens are not socially capable of dealing with the consequences.

The result is as has been seen. The more we demand repression the more we experience subversion and aggression. Let the kids have their sex with trained, comPetant adults under the supervision of doctors for safety reasons and maybe they will derive something from their school years other than dreams of rock stardom and/or pimpin yo.

 

[alli_boo]

What I would consider sexual harrassment is any form of harrassment dealing with sexuality. This includes calling a person a lesbian because her hair is short or she looks tomboyish (minor), or actually molesting a girl because you want to make her cry (major).

What I think schools ought to do to prevent it is increase teaching about tolerance among genders and sexuality, and to not allow any teacher who takes part in the harrassment to continue teaching. In fact, they should hire people who'd tattle on the harrassers or even have them arrested!

I would not let it go on at my child's school, and if we sit kids down and teach them that sexuality is a little more complicated than they think, and not some play toy to harrass people with, they might stop!


What could be done? Sue the hell out of the schools and have everything reported. That's all you CAN do! But be happy you're a girl. When guys report sexual harrassment it's disregarded real fast, but girls are taken very seriously.

Well they sure havent taken me seriously...

 

[alli_boo]

By the way, try not to let all this get you down (I know that is really hard). When someone makes a rotten comment to you just smile and say "thanks for being a jerk to me" and walk away. That might push them to feel a little empathy while you maintain your dignity. Also remember that your troubles have made you a better person than them. But show a little empathy for them, it is an ugly life when you have to go through it being stupid.

Sooner than you realize it, you'll be ready for college. And those problems will vanish. You get to start over, and you get to start the "real" part of your life.

Thanks... This year is better, I think its mainly because all my friends have been through depression, and all have dealt with going through a suicidal phase at some point, and they are the best people, They really are helping me through.

 

[Subordinationist]

Sex and school:

All fundamantal education should be finished by the sixth grade, at which point all children should be ready for secondary which has little or no fundamentals taught. If the child can't do long division by sixth grade it must remain there until it can or until it's 18 and can be forced to join the Armed Forces where the training can be forced.

Upon reaching secondary school males and females should be separated and not re-integrated until they are 18. This will relieve vast amounts of undue stress from both sexes during a time when they can't really take it. Legalised prostitution should be made available to anyone who has passed puberty based on grades. Clothing and meals should also be doled out based on grades. School should have no extracurricular activities that do not adhere very specifically to the higher maths, sciences, literature and crafts, and these should be based entirely on performance. No sports, no theology, no arts or music. Let the little cretins pay for that stuff on their own time and with their parent's cash.

Anyone recieving an F in two semesters of the same class is shipped to a military academy and beaten until they are old enough to join the armed forces.

Anyone caught not using a sanctioned prostitute for sexual activity will recieve the above treatment.

The parents of a child sent to military school will be forced to joined the armed forces for a period not to exceed their child's time in the military academy and the armed forces.

It would work.

It would be a totalitarian and authoritarian institution of fear and hatred. It would transform people into cold, heartless individuals. We would have endless wars (both civil and foreign), because there would be so many people in the military. Sex would be a mere formality "like the renewal of a ration card" as Comrade O'Brien put your VERY SIMILAR idea in 1984.

abstinence, which is cruel and pointless

Nonsense. Abstinence preserves sexual purity (by definition). The value of sexual purity can be seen, in a culture where 50% of all worries revolve around sexual issues (especially teens, as you say). It terms of Christianity, abstinence has immense value. Jesus, Paul, several OT prophets, etc. were all seemingly abstinent. Paul himself says that abstinece is preferable to marriage, "but not a commandment of the Lord".

Their should be classes held everyday at every grade of school designed to help develop peoples empathetic capabilities. Children should be made to feel homely for a day, so that they can see what it feels like when they call someone ugly. Children should be made to feel like an outsider for a day, to see what it feels like not to be included with other kids in their games. I'm sure you can imagine a lot more scenarios.

Brilliant idea.



.

 

[alli_boo]

It would be a totalitarian and authoritarian institution of fear and hatred. It would transform people into cold, heartless individuals. We would have endless wars (both civil and foreign), because there would be so many people in the military. Sex would be a mere formality "like the renewal of a ration card" as O'Brien put your VERY SIMILAR idea in 1984.



.

I completely agree with you here. Not that the world is not already a cruel, dark place, full of hatred.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Nope I enjoy psychology quite a bit, actually. Legalised prostitution is a good idea for teens, especially males. The way we treat sex in this society is pretty conducive to aggressive sexual behavior among those who can least control their emotions and desires.

False dichotomy

It forces young males to choose between abstinence, ...It forces teens to rely on other teens to gratify themselves, and teens are not socially capable of dealing with the consequences.

Never heard of masturbation, eh?

 

[Clem is Me]

It would be a totalitarian and authoritarian institution of fear and hatred. It would transform people into cold, heartless individuals. We would have endless wars (both civil and foreign), because there would be so many people in the military. Sex would be a mere formality "like the renewal of a ration card" as Comrade O'Brien put your VERY SIMILAR idea in 1984.



Nonsense. Abstinence preserves sexual purity (by definition). The value of sexual purity can be seen, in a culture where 50% of all worries revolve around sexual issues (especially teens, as you say). It terms of Christianity, abstinence has immense value. Jesus, Paul, several OT prophets, etc. were all seemingly abstinent. Paul himself says that abstinece is preferable to marriage, "but not a commandment of the Lord".



Brilliant idea.



.

Preserving sexual purity is needless and cruel. It subjugates young women and frustrates young men. It may have value to a deity but that shouldn't be our concern. Those little tykes who choose to be celibate will certainly find a way.

As to the rest, this is school we are talking about, not every aspect of life. School should be for grounding an individual in critical thought and the basic tools needed to become an employable member of society. Children and young adults lived for centuries making their own art, music, and sports without your help. They would again if we left them the hell alone. Now every kid plays sports and half of them can't read at their grade level. I won, you lose, out.

 

[Clem is Me]

False dichotomy
Never heard of masturbation, eh?

False Dichotmy. Expand. I have heard of masturbation, and it's a hoot, but it hasn't stopped the sexual recklessness of young people, has it? Castration is another idea, I suppose. Seems a bit harsh when there is an easier, safer and more humane alternative. "Easy and safe"...you would think America would leap all over that. Must be the "humane" that puts us off.

 

[alli_boo]

False Dichotmy. Expand. I have heard of masturbation, and it's a hoot, but it hasn't stopped the sexual recklessness of young people, has it? Castration is another idea, I suppose. Seems a bit harsh when there is an easier, safer and more humane alternative. "Easy and safe"...you would think America would leap all over that. Must be the "humane" that puts us off.

Isnt that so relevant....

 

[Clem is Me]

Isnt that so relevant....

What?

 

[alli_boo]

False dichotomy

Quote:

It forces young males to choose between abstinence, ...It forces teens to rely on other teens to gratify themselves, and teens are not socially capable of dealing with the consequences.

Never heard of masturbation, eh?

False Dichotmy. Expand. I have heard of masturbation, and it's a hoot

 

[Clem is Me]

Did you not read the rest of my post?

 

[alli_boo]

Did you not read the rest of my post?

Yeah I did, But I dont see why you were discussing that in the first place....