Should I stay or go?

[geloofwalker]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and to the church. (about 2 yrs. in the church.) I have been wondering if I joined this organization with full understanding or with the eagerness of baptism, and I wonder if I should leave the oganization. I am feeling that the struggles I'm having are about the church rules. Resently a woman was refused baptism because she refused to remove her wedding rings. I resumed my habit of smoking a few months after baptism and it is looked upon as something between me and God, she was very hurt by this and I dont understand. We all have sins and if we study and stay focused on Jesus I believe the Holy Spirit will change us to be what He wants us to be. If we do not heed the call of the Spirit for change then it is between God and ourselves not a judgement call from the church. I know one member that goes to bars for Karoke, doesnt drink but likes to sing. She will probably get kicked out and turn very sour on organized religion. Wouldnt it be better to baptize these people that are seeking the Lord and bring them into the fold letting God change them in His time. It is said that our church is THE remnant church, the final church of Gods people and I have a hard time with that because I know no other church. I have been thinking of checking out the different churches in the area so I can be sure of my convictions. Will I get kicked out of the SDA for my stand? I'm not sure if I care anymore. I would appreciate any feedback on this.

 

[joy2daworld]

Every church organization which teaches that Christ died for our sins will have members in heaven. I agree with you that the judgment should come from God. Baptism is a means of grace. It is not something we can do on our own: how can a deas man do anything? We should baptize those who believe and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. Going to bars to sing is no more a sin than singing in church. It's what else is being done there that may tempt a person to sin. No one said she has to drink, smoke, curse, swear, or entertain lustful thoughts just because she is in a place where these things commonly manifest themselves. My husband plays rock music in bars about 2 or 3 weekends a month. It is not a sin.

I encourage you to look deeper into the doctines that the church teaches. Take it to God's word and study the passages of proof IN CONTEXT. Be sure that it means what they say it means. Ask questions. Go to God in prayer. If you are in the right place, you'll know it. If not, your heart (and the Holy Spirit) will guide you to keep searching until you are.

In a Bible study just recently, our pastor said that if we didn't agree with everything the church was teaching, we were in the wrong place. I believe that the denomination that I belong to is the one that is closest to Jesus' teachings and that is why I attend this denomination of church. If you believe there are "gray areas", heaven help you. God's word is absolute. You must first know what the church is teaching, then verify it with what God's word says. If it doesn't agree, you need to move on.

I loathe people who choose a denomination based on what they think works best for their lifestyle. In that, you are correct. God will change the hearts of sinners who come into the church. They don't need to be changed before they are acceptable. When we come to know Christ, truly come to know Him, we will be inspired by the Holy Spirit to change our lives to match what He requires of us. If you don't believe the church is doing what God says you should be (i.e. baptizing in the name of the triune God and instructing in a way that inspires change) then you need to move on.

Churches are for sinners just like hospitals are for sick people. You don't get well before you go.

God bless your search for knowledge and wisdom and most of all for peace in your soul.

Sarah

 

[k4c]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and to the church. (about 2 yrs. in the church.) I have been wondering if I joined this organization with full understanding or with the eagerness of baptism, and I wonder if I should leave the oganization. I am feeling that the struggles I'm having are about the church rules. Resently a woman was refused baptism because she refused to remove her wedding rings. I resumed my habit of smoking a few months after baptism and it is looked upon as something between me and God, she was very hurt by this and I dont understand. We all have sins and if we study and stay focused on Jesus I believe the Holy Spirit will change us to be what He wants us to be. If we do not heed the call of the Spirit for change then it is between God and ourselves not a judgement call from the church. I know one member that goes to bars for Karoke, doesnt drink but likes to sing. She will probably get kicked out and turn very sour on organized religion. Wouldnt it be better to baptize these people that are seeking the Lord and bring them into the fold letting God change them in His time. It is said that our church is THE remnant church, the final church of Gods people and I have a hard time with that because I know no other church. I have been thinking of checking out the different churches in the area so I can be sure of my convictions. Will I get kicked out of the SDA for my stand? I'm not sure if I care anymore. I would appreciate any feedback on this.

Hi geloofwalker,

I understand where you are coming from 100%. I can tell you that the SDA has the most truth of just about all other denominations. I can also tell that under the unbrella of Adventism there is a wide range of regulations from what you are experiencing now to being very liberal. I myself had to search for a SDA church that fit my understanding of the things you mentioned. I can tell that much of what you are experiencing is old school and not unique to the SDA church. There are other denominations that hold to the same legalistic regulations. If you could find a SDA church with a young congregation you would not find many of the old school legalisims. I don't know if you live in Rhode Island but I can tell you that the way you believe is the same way my church believes.

I wouldn't leave the SDA just yet but I would check out other SDA churches. The SDA does have a lot more truth than any other denomination even with all its baggage.

Just to let you know, wearing jewelry, drinking wine and dancing are not sins but how we partake of them can become sinful.

 

[Kira Light]

I don't think we're allowed to say you should leave the SDA church in this forum, so you will probably only hear one side. Might ask in the progressive forum if you want to hear arguments on both sides.

 

[k4c]

I don't think we're allowed to say you should leave the SDA church in this forum, so you will probably only hear one side. Might ask in the progressive forum if you want to hear arguments on both sides.

Most people speak and give advise from text book studies but I can tell you that for the past 35 years I've been personally involved with most of the mainline denominations in the world today. I graduated from a Baptist Bible school and studied with many of the popular preachers of today until about 8 years ago when God began convicting to test what I've been taught over the years. I came to the SDA through personal study and testing, not through birth. I understand there is no perfect church that has a complete understanding of all things but I can tell you the SDA has the most truth of them all but the only way you can come to this conclusion is throgh personal study and prayer and be willing to give up beliefs that God reveals as false.

If people choose to leave the SDA and do so it might be God's way of teaching them truth through experience. I say this because once you leave the place that teaches truth you will never be saticfied no matter where you go. In this you will come back stronger and a more brighter light for God.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hi Geloofwalker,

I can fully understand how you feel. I say this because I've had very up close and personal experience with the what you are going through. I don't have the luxury of time right now to address every point you and others have raised but I do want to point out some very important facts.

The first fact is that every denomination is comprised of mortal human beings. We humans are not perfect, nor do we always make correct decisions in our personal lives or in our spitural lives. As a result, all too often, we hurt others, including even those we love, sometimes without even thinking about the result of our actions. The second fact is that all too often people with good intention are guilty of the forgoing.

Until I can find time to return and address the points you and others have raised more directly I would like to share something that I feel the Holy Spireit led me to yesterday for you and another person who is having some simular trouble with SDA church members. It is a quote from Richard O'Fill who is an author, a SDA Pastor, and a preacher's kid.

Pastor O'Fill remembers when he was a child,

Being an Adventist was a lifestyle, we didn't smoke, didn't drink alcohol, didn't wear jewelry, didn't go to dances, and kept Saturday as the Sabbath. In "the good old days," a person could be an Adventist in good and regular standing and not be born again. Unfortunately that's still true today.

A true Christian is one whose heart is filled in a wonderful and mysterious way with the Holy Spirit. If and when we are able to comprehind this truth, the effect on our personal lives, our families, and, subsequently, on the life of the church, will be immediate.

To me the foregoing statement says volums about far too many SDA.

Until I can return with futher comment please know that you are in my prayers. Also please feel free to ask any additional questions you may have about Seventh-day Adventist as a church or as church members.

Respectfully, your friend and brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[Traveler1318]

Hello, geloofwalker.

I am a self-proclaimed conservative fuddy-duddy. IMHO, the church is a place for people who are growing in grace to learn how to grow in grace together. There was a time when you could see a visual difference between the women in the SDA church and the women in the workplace.

I have heard people say, "Don't confront people about jewelry (or whatever issue); they'll take it off, themselves, over time." Instead, I see the young women of the church saying, "If they don't have to leave it off, neither do I," and "If she can dress like that, so can I." Instead of the church being a place of raising standards, the standards get lowered to the lowest common denominator. I think that is wrong. Just because a mouse is in the cookie jar doesn't make it a cookie.

If we profess the name of Christ, we profess that we want to be more and more like Jesus. (1 John 1:6) As we read His word and spend time in study and prayer, we will become more like Him (2 Cor 3:18). If we are not becoming more and more Christlike, moving from victory to victory, if our actions do not at least approximate our profession (James 1:26) our faith is no faith and our confidence in Christ is vain.

 

[SonnyV]

You are an Adventist because you believe in the Bible as the word of God and want to have a relationship with Him. You may or may not want to have a relationship with the Adventist Church and that is your choice. But I believe that this church has fundamental teachings that are in line with what is taught in the bible. We do what God wants us to do and not what Church leaders want us to do. The church does not have the right to kick somebody out. Being a part of the church is your right and it is your choice. If you stick on you'll discover new friends, if not keep in mind that Jesus is always your friend.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is easy for Satan to disrupt our lives by discouraging us and by getting church leaders who side with the devil to work against us. The Adventist church is not immune to satan's work and many pastors and church leaders are his tool. We can stay away from such people but worship with the good and the bad, knowing that we are worshiping God.

I would suggest that despite your fears and troubles you stay with the church, keep God in your heart and meditate on His word.

Prayers and Regards,

 

[bugkiller]

Hi geloofwalker,

I understand where you are coming from 100%. I can tell you that the SDA has the most truth of just about all other denominations. I can also tell that under the unbrella of Adventism there is a wide range of regulations from what you are experiencing now to being very liberal. I myself had to search for a SDA church that fit my understanding of the things you mentioned. I can tell that much of what you are experiencing is old school and not unique to the SDA church. There are other denominations that hold to the same legalistic regulations. If you could find a SDA church with a young congregation you would not find many of the old school legalisims. I don't know if you live in Rhode Island but I can tell you that the way you believe is the same way my church believes.

I wouldn't leave the SDA just yet but I would check out other SDA churches. The SDA does have a lot more truth than any other denomination even with all its baggage.

Just to let you know, wearing jewelry, drinking wine and dancing are not sins but how we partake of them can become sinful.

I certainly agree that the SDA church has the most SDA truth.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Hello, geloofwalker.

I am a self-proclaimed conservative fuddy-duddy. IMHO, the church is a place for people who are growing in grace to learn how to grow in grace together. There was a time when you could see a visual difference between the women in the SDA church and the women in the workplace.

I have heard people say, "Don't confront people about jewelry (or whatever issue); they'll take it off, themselves, over time." Instead, I see the young women of the church saying, "If they don't have to leave it off, neither do I," and "If she can dress like that, so can I." Instead of the church being a place of raising standards, the standards get lowered to the lowest common denominator. I think that is wrong. Just because a mouse is in the cookie jar doesn't make it a cookie.

If we profess the name of Christ, we profess that we want to be more and more like Jesus. (1 John 1:6) As we read His word and spend time in study and prayer, we will become more like Him (2 Cor 3:18). If we are not becoming more and more Christlike, moving from victory to victory, if our actions do not at least approximate our profession (James 1:26) our faith is no faith and our confidence in Christ is vain.

I sure ain't gonna stick my hands in your cookie jar. Did ya leave the lid off again.

bugkiller