Should I sign?

[HannahT]

Hey everyone. My wife has just emailed me the marital settlement agreement, which comes before the divorce papers (I believe). There's a line in it that states,

"WHEREAS, we were married on xxx date in xx place, and we now mutually desire to dissolve our marriage and mutually agree to live permanently separate and apart from each other, as if we were single."

I promised I wouldn't contest the divorce even though I don't want it. But in the line above, it states, "mutually desire to dissolve our marriage."

How can I respect my wife's desires and not lie on the agreement?

Thoughts?

Your not lying, but keeping your word.

She asked for a divorce, and you stated you would NOT contest it.

That is mutually agreeing.

Although, I must admit no doubt she was going to see if you would keep your word - no doubt she knew there was a big chance you wouldn't.

You didn't keep your word when you took a vow before God, family, and church to love, respect, and honor her.

Your track record isn't something in your favor at this point.

You need to step back, and do some really heavy lifting on your own sense of character, integrity, and deal with the demons that made you abuse in the first place.

If it is in God's will that you both end up together once again? There is NOTHING that will stop that from happening.

You need to show her you have turned over a new leaf, and stand by your word. If you can't do that? She really won't see that anything has changed, because its been your habit so far not too. No doubt that is a hard pill to shallow, but it is what it is.

 

[JohnDB]

Your not lying, but keeping your word.

She asked for a divorce, and you stated you would NOT contest it.

That is mutually agreeing.

Although, I must admit no doubt she was going to see if you would keep your word - no doubt she knew there was a big chance you wouldn't.

You didn't keep your word when you took a vow before God, family, and church to love, respect, and honor her.

Your track record isn't something in your favor at this point.

You need to step back, and do some really heavy lifting on your own sense of character, integrity, and deal with the demons that made you abuse in the first place.

If it is in God's will that you both end up together once again? There is NOTHING that will stop that from happening.

You need to show her you have turned over a new leaf, and stand by your word. If you can't do that? She really won't see that anything has changed, because its been your habit so far not too. No doubt that is a hard pill to shallow, but it is what it is.

I completely agree.

 

[Ellwood3]

I know you're broken my friend. No contest is always hurtful. You need to get on your knees about this until you hear from God. Remember, God sees the whole picture and wrote your life's total plan.

With you in prayer

This is the single best answer you've got. It's not about worldly advice, which is much of what you're getting. The best advice is to not move forward until you've heard from God. What He thinks about it, trumps every other idea. And that requires prayer.

 

[Ellwood3]

There are many resources to help those (even if it's only one spouse) bring a marriage back from the brink.

These Christian ministries helping couples who would otherwise head for divorce. Even if they aren't what the person who began this thread needs, they may prove valuable to somebody.

One of the first examples of marriages going through tough times and coming our stronger is the movie Fireproof, and the impact it has had on marriages. The movie Fireproof is about a couple heading for divorce. Using a manuscript (now the book, The Love Dare), the husband chooses to practice loving his wife, even though she no longer feels any love for him.

As a newbie, I can’t yet post the links, but searching for "Fireproof the movie" should get you there. The site has a “Stories” area for testimonials, most from couples whose marriages were helped when at least one spouse began doing The Love Dare challenge.
As of the day I post this, 11-6-13, over 36,000 testimonials have been left.

There are resources on that site, and at "fireproofmymarriage." If you go there (as of today) you'll find a fire extinguisher saying "marriage 911." If you click in that area it will take you to a page that can help you find a Christian counselor or a "marriage intensive"--a special sort of seminar including those by "The Hideaway Experience," "The National Institute of Marriage" (which says it has an 85% success rate for couples, after two years), and "The Center for Relational Care."

All of these have their own websites.

The idea that a Christian marriage that's struggling is bound for defeat, is an idea that's been defeated over and again, one Christian couple at a time.

Another help for marriges, whether healthy or struggling and also for those heading for divorce are the WEEKEND TO REMEMBER conferences.

Go on a search for "weekend to remember stories" and it will take you to a part of a site (Dennis Rainey's Family Life Today) that has many stories from seemingly impossible situations--couples who were helped by the Weekend to Remember conferences.

The Family Life Today site has many articles and other helps. Do a search for “family life today” and you can find Dennis Rainey’s site.When you click on “marriage” (currently) and on the phrase “2. You are a sinner married to a sinner,” it will take you to a page with many links down the left. One of them, under “troubled marriages” is “saving a marriage.” It also will take you to a page with stories from people who were helped through the Weekend to Remember conference.

I previously posted some other resources. I will put them in another post below.

 

[Ellwood3]

Besides the movie Fireproof,the book, The Love Dare), and the "fireproofmymarriage" site, which can help find a Christian counselor (click the fire extinguisher saying "marriage 911; it will take you to a page that can help you find one--Christian counseling is different from secular counseling)--and besides the "marriage intensive" seminars ("The Hideaway Experience," "The National Institute of Marriage" and "The Center for Relational Care," and the WEEKEND TO REMEMBER conferences, part of Dennis Rainey's Family Life Today site, I had previously posted some other resources, saying this:


"You're not betraying her by seeking God's true will and intentions for your lives. And it seems He's calling you both in the scriptures and in your gut--not to sign.

Did God lead for the divorce to be filed? What would He have you do with them if He did not? Continue further in the wrong direction?

Here are some resources that might aid the process. There's a ministry helping couples who are struggling, it's Dale and Jena Forehand, who do "Keeping it Real" seminars (they travel around the USA). Besides what they sell, there are some free materials on their site--including videos and audio recordings.

Just yesterday--the day you posted this--this couple was on the Life Today TV program, hosted by James and Betty Robison (no "n"). (I saw them there.) You can watch that show free online (as with all the Life Today Outreach International shows).

I can't post links yet, but if you search for "James and Betty lightsource" it will take you to a page where you can find the show called "Dale and Jena Forehand: the Marriage Mask" from October 29, 2013. That is the roughly 28-minute video on yesterday (it's currently at the top on the right, but it will move down the page as other shows are added. Even then, if you search for the date, you will find it in the archives).

Above those recent videos on the right of this Life Today site, you will find a search box. Enter the word "divorce," and it will bring you to a page with 50 other videos on divorce, and some articles and pertinent scriptures.

Also, if you search for "daleandjena" you will find their site. Their ministry is called "Stained Glass Ministries." Their story? You'll find it on their site. But in a nutshell, they couldn't stand each other. They both wanted full custody of their children, so their judge required them to live in the same house for 15 months.

They divorced and remarried. Christ did a work in them, and now through them for others.

 

[DZoolander]

Oh, don't get me wrong. What was said above is absolutely true.

Short of something earthshattering monumental - most stuff can be fixed.

The problem, however, lies in the fact that most people don't want to change, or even if they did don't know how to do so. People are the way they are for a reason - because it's their natural inclination.

You want to try to fix it? By all means...you should. But - at the same time - realize that it's not something for today, tomorrow, next week, etc. No brownie points are given for short term "fixes" done simply to smooth things over before going back to your natural jerky demeanor.

If you've got a propensity for being a jackass - knock it off - and never be one again. Recognize the things that cause you to make that choice (and it is a choice) and be cognizant of them in the future. From this point on, choose wisely, and never make the jerky choice again.

...and resolve to yourself that if you do - that you'll be the one to willingly leave your spouse alone from that point on. Don't put the onus on them to continually endure and forgive your bad choices. Make it a make-or-break situation for yourself. Maybe some self imposed consequences in life will do you some good.

If you're prepared to do that - by all means - and most likely you will be successful. But - anything short of that - IMHO is a form of dishonesty and cruelty to your spouse.

 

[Ellwood3]

I originally posted this:

I say, "don't sign."

You have an Enemy who loves to kill, steal and destoy, and a calling. Put Christ at the head, and be wary of advice based on what seems good in a worldly way.

One response was to that post of mine was:

"And I say be wary of "Christians" who say to stay at any and all costs."



If anyone here has said "to stay at any and all costs" (even if God isn't leading you to), I have not seen it.

I have seen one side, including myself, say “Wait until you have a better understanding of God’s leading. Don’t go forward until you do.”

I have seen another side say, say “Go forward (even though you don’t know if God is leading you to or not) for these following reasons of mine ….”


The Bible says:

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make direct your paths." Proverbs 3:5-6.

Some have said, “Lean on my understanding. I’ll tell you what to do”: Walk by sight.

Others have said, “Don’t lean on your own understanding, follow God,” and have pointed you toward Him: Walk by faith.

I have seen no one say that divorce is never an option. The question isn’t whether someone somewhere should divorce. The question here is about two individuals. And not one person who has answered knows as well as God does, what they should do.

So why not follow Him? Trust Him. Not, “what are the practical arguments this way or that,” but, how does the Holy God see this; that is the crux of the matter.

 

[Ellwood3]

About Those Glow-Worms:


A previous post of mentioned a quote about glow-worms. Here it is:



In The Secret of Guidance by Frederick B. Meyer (chapter 1, section V), Meyer puts the issue of locating God’s path like this:

“Sometimes men sigh for an angel to come to point them their way; that simply indicates that as yet the time has not come for them to move. If you do not know what you ought to do, stand still until you do. And when the time comes for action, circumstances, like glow-worms, will sparkle along your path; and you will become so sure that you are right, when God's three witnesses concur, that you could not be surer though an angel beckoned you on.” *

The “three witnesses” are the movement of the Holy Spirit, the scriptures, and circumstances.


Meyer says it like this, “The circumstances of our daily life are to us an infallible indication of God's will, when they concur with the inward promptings of the Spirit and with the Word of God. So long as they are stationary, wait. When you must act, they will open, and a way will be made through oceans and rivers, wastes and rocks.”

When I came to this thread I saw someone whose inward prompting and searching of scriptures was prompting a wait.

When the papers for this divorce were received, the circumstances changed: Now signing them would also mean lying, both to the court and to the spouse.

Without clear direction (even if a thousand people say otherwise) from the Lord, waiting on God and not signing without His clear direction seem right.

Waiting of course doesn’t mean sitting still and doing nothing (just in case any reader may assume that).

Learning to wait on God, while seeking what He wants is not passive. It can be far more challenging than doing what one wants to do or what others think one should do. It’s an act of trust. Faith is action, even when waiting and it includes acting for guidance.


*[FONT=&quot]Note: Someone might complain, “Meyer says to “stand still.” Does that mean I must “stand still” if I’m in a fire and don’t know which way out??? I could burn to death!!!!!” For you, I encourage you to read the entire book, The Secret of Guidance, perhaps many times; it’s one of those valuable Christian classics that’s now in the public domain, and so it is often included in Bible software packages—and do try to keep things in their context. Also begin reading other Christian classics, and ask for God’s help in giving you wisdom. And —if you’re in a fire and a fire extinguisher won’t put it out—I encourage you to call the fire department, and stay low while you follow the exit signs. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The entire book,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The Secret of Guidance by F. B. Meyer is online and can be read, free, and even printed out in some places.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

One place to find such classic works is CCEL, the Christian Classics Ethereal Library website. The entire work is valuable. [/FONT]

 

[DZoolander]

So why not follow Him? Trust Him. Not, “what are the practical arguments this way or that,” but, how does the Holy God see this; that is the crux of the matter.

The problem is - curiously enough it always seems that what "God wants" ends up being what the person wanted anyhow.

I've never seen someone say "Ya know, I really wanted to give it a shot, but God said I lacked the character and told me to leave the person in peace, because all I was going to do was make their life miserable with my self centered nonsense."

 

[bhsmte]

The problem is - curiously enough it always seems that what "God wants" ends up being what the person wanted anyhow.

I've never seen someone say "Ya know, I really wanted to give it a shot, but God said I lacked the character and told me to leave the person in peace, because all I was going to do was make their life miserable."

Couldn't have said it better.

It is quite a coincidence, that God's will always seems to align with certain peoples personal desires.

Your mind can convince you of anything, if you have a strong enough psychological need for it to do so.

 

[Ellwood3]

Another quote from The Secret of Guidance by F. B. Meyer is from chapter 1, section 4:

"Sometimes it looks as if we are bound to act. Everyone says we must do something; and, indeed, things seem to have reached so desperate a pitch that we must. Behind are the Egyptians; right and left are inaccessible precipices; before is the sea. It is not easy at such times to stand still and see the salvation of God; but we must. When Saul compelled himself, and offered sacrifice, because he thought that Samuel was too late in coming, he made the great mistake of his life."

Again, the whole work is online, free, at CCEL, the Christian Classics Ethereal Library, along with a great many other works.

We serve a God of Grace. Redemption is possible. We know it's needed. With the Holy Spirit's guidance--and maybe a few glow-worms--we can find our way in dark places nonbelievers can see no light in. With God, there is much hope. Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Spirit, who can do a change in us and through us we could never do ourselves.

 

[Ellwood3]

Often "what God wants" is not what the person would choose. Maybe that's one reason why He generally reveals His will to those who've agreed with Him to do it regardless of what it is.

God's direction is God's direction, not merely the person's own will. Some people do whatever they want and call it God's will, but that's not the same thing as truly following Him.

One of the reasons that the Fireproof movie reflects reality, is that there's a husband who doesn't want to try and a wife who's given up. And the husband, beginning The Love Dare as a request from his dad, doesn't want to do the daily assignments.

A lot of people in unhappy marriages want to give up. Starting to pray for one's spouse isn't something that comes naturally for many people, especially when angry with the spouse, but people do it. Taking the time and money and challenge of going to a marriage conference with a spouse you don't like, and maybe are even in a divorce process with, takes guts. People do it. Thousands.

The Weekend to Remember marriage conference comes with a money-back guarantee. It's one option to learn new ways to be married together better.

---(added for clarity 11-12-13):

Specifically, the guarantee says:

"If, after attending Weekend to Remember, you don’t agree that it was one of the finest investments you could make in your marriage, the full registration fee will be refunded upon written request no later than 14 days after the first getaway you attended ...."

 

[DZoolander]

Whereas I see it differently.

Sure, you don't want to try. You want to be lazy. You want to be selfish. You want to do what you want to do...

But...you also might not want to be single again. Throwing your hat back into the dating pool and coming home to an empty home every night might not appeal to you. Going through a court battle might not appeal to you. Possibly losing custody of the kids might not appeal to you. Paying alimony out of your meager paycheck might not appeal to you. Paying child support and trying to figure out how to afford rent at your new place while you're subsidizing another home for your ex-wife might not appeal to you.

...or let's say you're a jerk...

Maybe you know your wife/spouse has spent 20 years dealing with your crap and you think it be difficult to find some other fool that will deal with your nonsense. Let's say you have control issues - and you don't want to relinquish control over that other person by letting them have the last word and dictating the final direction of the relationship.

It's quite possible (and likely) there are a myriad of other things that might trump whatever thing you are pointing at as "something they don't want to do" - that "God told them or conveyed to them".

The simple fact is people do what they believe will, based upon their values and things they find important, cause them the least amount of pain/distress. Sometimes that mixture of variables is noble - sometimes it isn't. Telling them to pray on it amounts to little more than giving them permission to conjure up "Godly approval" for whatever they are driven to do anyhow (all things considered).

I remember in college - I had a course in ethics. I made the argument that all action is fundamentally selfish action when you take the totality of the person into account.

The professor disagreed with me. His argument went something along the lines of "Do you think that taking my kids to the park when I would have preferred to watch the game was a selfish act? How do you justify that?"

My answer was "Because you want to perceive yourself as a good parent, most likely. To see your children go without would give you greater displeasure than the displeasure experienced missing the game. Seeing yourself as the kind of jerk that would ignore his children so he could watch a football game isn't something you want to do.

That's what I mean."

So, no. The fact that some fictional character gave flowers to his wife every day and/or bought his mother in law a wheelchair when he seemingly would have preferred to do something else isn't really testament to anything. Rather - it shows that when it boils down to it - due to whatever combination of factors that created it - he preferred to keep his wife around. Same goes with everyone else in their choices.

 

[JohnDB]

I feel sorry for his ex wife if he hasn't signed them papers by now.

 

[bhsmte]

I feel sorry for his ex wife if he hasn't signed them papers by now.

From what we have been told at least, his wife has clearly taken the high road to this point and he should be thankful for that.

If she gets frustrated, she could have an attorney draw up papers and have him served and then go in front of a judge. She would also be well within her rights, to indicate on the papers why she is filing for divorce and even give examples of the abuse she has suffered and that would forever more be in the public record.

 

[Ellwood3]

These answers are partly a question of seeing only what people want to see.

Those who think marriage has no chance, ignore facts to the contrary.

Reality? Many couples divorce, and many do not, going on to better marriages than they dreamed possible. That Love Dare Book/Fireproof movie? The point isn't about a fictional character did --it's about the tens of thousands of people who made positive changes because of it.

As I said, over 36,000 testimonials are on that one site alone (Fireproof the Movie, the "stories" area). Not because they watched a movie, but more because they began to take steps making changes.

A lot of people never witnessed a terrifically good marriage growing up. Sometimes even small steps bring healing.

Besides the other ministries I've mentioned, there's also Jimmy and Karen Evans of MarriageToday (a search should get you to their site by that name; I can't post links yet). He verbally abused her early in their marriage, and dominated her. She didn't love him. He didn't love her. But--for over 25 years they've been helping other couples, because God helped them make the changes so now their marriage became very good.

Their site has a free weekly email to sign up to get a marriage helping ideas. The site has articles and other things.


Pastor Robert Morris of Gateway Church had a problem with sarcasm early in his marriage to his wife Debbie. On a recent show, in his Words: Life or Death series (on television and also on his site) Pastor Morris he talked about how, early in their marriage he was verbally abusive.

One day he had verbally beaten up his wife and she was crying in the other room.

He heard God ask him if he remembered the time he was beaten up by a black belt--how it didn't just hurt for day, it hurt for weeks, because the guy knew how to attack to do damage. Robert remembered. God told Robert he was a black belt with his tongue, and not to do it again. Robert and Debbie have a good marriage today. They also support Jimmy and Karen Evans' ministry.

Morris's website is called The Blessed Life. He has just started an 8-part series on Words--it can be watching free on his site.

The tongue, the Bible says, has the power of life and death: "The tongue can bring death or life, and those who enjoy using their tongues will reap their consequences" - Proverbs 18:21.


So why do some people seen to have a vested interest in encouraging someone they have never met in getting divorced? Much better to point someone toward the Lord, to seek Him, and give some resources. God can do what we don't even want to, so those thinking about divorce need to arrive at their answers through Him.

 

[bhsmte]

These answers are partly a question of seeing only what people want to see.

Those who think marriage has no chance, ignore facts to the contrary.

Reality? Many couples divorce, and many do not, going on to better marriages than they dreamed possible. That Love Dare Book/Fireproof movie? The point isn't about a fictional character did --it's about the tens of thousands of people who made positive changes because of it.

As I said, over 36,000 testimonials are on that one site alone (Fireproof the Movie, the "stories" area). Not because they watched a movie, but more because they began to take steps making changes.

A lot of people never witnessed a terrifically good marriage growing up. Sometimes even small steps bring healing.

Besides the other ministries I've mentioned, there's also Jimmy and Karen Evans of MarriageToday (a search should get you to their site by that name; I can't post links yet). He verbally abused her early in their marriage, and dominated her. She didn't love him. He didn't love her. But--for over 25 years they've been helping other couples, because God helped them make the changes so now their marriage became very good.

Their site has a free weekly email to sign up to get a marriage helping ideas. The site has articles and other things.


Pastor Robert Morris of Gateway Church had a problem with sarcasm early in his marriage to his wife Debbie. On a recent show, in his Words: Life or Death series (on television and also on his site) Pastor Morris he talked about how, early in their marriage he was verbally abusive.

One day he had verbally beaten up his wife and she was crying in the other room.

He heard God ask him if he remembered the time he was beaten up by a black belt--how it didn't just hurt for day, it hurt for weeks, because the guy knew how to attack to do damage. Robert remembered. God told Robert he was a black belt with his tongue, and not to do it again. Robert and Debbie have a good marriage today. They also support Jimmy and Karen Evans' ministry.

Morris's website is called The Blessed Life. He has just started an 8-part series on Words--it can be watching free on his site.

The tongue, the Bible says, has the power of life and death.


So why do some people seen to have a vested interest in encouraging someone they have never met in getting divorced? Much better to point someone toward the Lord, to seek Him, and give some resources. God can do what we don't even want to, so those thinking about divorce need to arrive at their answers through Him.

I think this person is going to do what they desire anyway. He likely came to this forum to get at least one opinion that agreed with his for some sort of psychological reassurance. If he prays about it, he will likely get the answer that fits his personal desire.

It would appear this person was already a christian who was close to God and it also appears some really bad things happened in the marriage that his closeness to God couldn't prevent.

 

[BigDaddy4]

So why do some people seen to have a vested interest in encouraging someone they have never met in getting divorced? Much better to point someone toward the Lord, to seek Him, and give some resources. God can do what we don't even want to, so those thinking about divorce need to arrive at their answers through Him.

Because a successful marriage is a 2-way street. It takes 2 to tango. Each partner has a choice in whether or not to participate. In this particular case, one partner wants to leave the dance hall. That's her choice. Whether or not he signs the papers, it's going to happen. He can stand on the dance floor hoping she'll change her mind. Or he can go work on his issues. That's his choice.

God can intervene and restore the marriage. That's His choice.

 

[Ellwood3]

If I haven't mentioned it yet, it's vital to pray for your spouse.


Asking God to have His will in your lives and your marriage, asking Him to change your hearts, asking Him for His help --whether one wants to stay in the marriage or get out, we're to pray for our enemies, as well as those we find easier to love.


Prayer is vital to any relationship.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

Fireproof is a movie! A highly fictionalized account of putting a marriage back together, made by a group with an agenda. Of course everything was going to work out in the end! Looking to those movies and pop-psychology books to solve marriage problems is giving a lot of people false expectations.

Fact 1 - OP treated his wife like excrement
Fact 2 - OP's wife had enough and left
Fact 3 - Wife filed for divorce.
Fact 4 - The divorce will go through even if he doesn't sign. However, if he doesn't sign, it will not look good for him and probably end up costing him a fortune in legal fees.

Stop relying on fictionalized flights of fancy. You should have done something to change your ways LONG before this. Now, all of a sudden, she leaves and you're all heartbroken. So sad you didn't see this before now.