Should I Literally Believe in Noah's Ark?

Jase said:

Circular reasoning. The Bible is infallible because the Bible says so is a logical fallacy.

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Indeed.

Circular reasoning can be a hard trap to break free from, especially if you have no other points of reference, or those other points of reference seem to reinforce your circular reasoning.

I wonder how many people are looking for a god to prove the Bible is true.

@ DrCharbboneau:

I was looking for the posts where you theorize about the time machine aspects of the Ark ... are they in another thread somewhere ? If not ... can you be more specific ?

2. Don't forget that Noah lived around an advanced race known as the Nephelim. (Genesis :6) Man had existed for around 1500 years being taught by these people, including Noah. Noah obeyed God's inspiration to build his ark, but it is doubtful that it resembled a boat so much as a feat of nautical architecture. How did God teach and inspire Noah about how to build this? Dreams? Visions? That we may never know, but that ark was likely, either through divine power or inspired technology, able to make jumps through time. My guess? The ark jumped across 50,000 of our years in a single "ark year."

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I have no doubt that God gives some people the mind to discover information that isn't able to be discovered by others; some are brilliant and curious and driven and some just are not--but its when that information being "discovered" is so esoteric in nature that I have a hard time paying attention. An ark jumping through time 50,000 years qualifies, in my mind anyway, as knowledge esoteric in nature. I could be wrong, and just be stubborn and unwilling to see, but then maybe I'm nost just stubborn. One day after we're dead we'll have more answers.

Jase said:

Circular reasoning. The Bible is infallible because the Bible says so is a logical fallacy.

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Are you serious? God tells us his word is the Bible and that he used men to make his glory and power known. If you don't trust the Bible then how do you know anything about God or his character? How do you know God is real if you don't trust the Bible? The Bible is a very real tool that has been given to us to use to study and to better understand God and the things he does. As well as teach us how to have a relationship with him. You can not hold on to all of that and deny what happened to the people in the Bible God used them just like he does us every day. God worked miracles just like he does today.

My God is bigger and greater than anything else in this world is yours?

Let's not forget faith without sight you either have it or you don't...

What if that day never comes?

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If what day never comes, the day our bodies die?

When I have enough posts accrued to post links, I'll present some sites about others working on this same problem. Dr. Ronald Mallett, also a Christian, is a Professor of physics at Univ. of Connecticut. He has theorized the use of ring laser beam handling systems to create what is known as a Tipler Cylinder. The TC is an infinite cylinder that references all time from its beginning time to whenever the beam degenerates.

I disagree with this technique, still NASA sent up a satellite called Gravity Probe B that tested the initial concept of this known as "frame dragging." FD is an Einsteinian concept.

As for esoteric, this is the 21st Century. In 10 years, suggesting the planet hasn't gone really bananas by then, robots will have all the non-esoteric jobs. Personally I think the "rapture" is esoteric. If it is not an extension of Kaluza-Klein theory, it is a fantasy and grossly misinterpretted..

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Well, the word of God is not meant to be an esoteric concept in that, in my opinion, God intended primarily to reveal His son to mankind as the messiah. Everything else is a minor point if there were only 1 real point of the word of God - again my opinion. I've seen all the movies about the rapture read the bible on it, read commentary, and according to some we're supposedly whisked out of here, but I'm not sure I believe that--I have never been settled on the issue either way. When something doesn't make sense in the bible to me I just go back to the primary reason I believe it was written, Jesus the messiah wants us to come back to Him.

Zeener, what are you a veteran of?

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Oh that's just the default title. I recently reset my profile it reset to veteran - must be the number of posts.

You don't find the books of Ezekiel and the Revelation of John esoteric? The latter was so fascinating that it drew me in to accept Christ when I was 19.

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Esoteric, meaning that the knowledge is only available to a select few. I believe anyone who digs can know the deeper things of God. One of my dearest friends came to Christ while on LSD. She said she was frying and then Jesus showed up and spoke to her. She told me that after this she never got high again and began to study the bible and became a born again Christian. I guess her experience could be viewed as "esoteric" in a way--but yet when you think about the Holy spirit and what He can do and how He longs to communicate with us and teach us, is it really an esoteric concept, this Holy spirit, since He is available and able to be to anyone and everyone?

Do you think it's impossible for these fleshly bodies to morph into an immortal vessel? Even Jesus says to us "Don't you know that you are gods?" Gods don't die naturally.

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In a sense that's what happens, no? We die and then our bodies are taken up from the earth. You can call it an immortal vessel I suppose.

1 Corinthians 15:42-57

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

I don't believe we are to be like "gods" but rather to be Christlike and like "God".

Bella Vita said:

Are you serious? God tells us his word is the Bible and that he used men to make his glory and power known. If you don't trust the Bible then how do you know anything about God or his character? How do you know God is real if you don't trust the Bible? The Bible is a very real tool that has been given to us to use to study and to better understand God and the things he does. As well as teach us how to have a relationship with him. You can not hold on to all of that and deny what happened to the people in the Bible God used them just like he does us every day. God worked miracles just like he does today.

My God is bigger and greater than anything else in this world is yours?

Let's not forget faith without sight you either have it or you don't...

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Do you *know* (as in factual) that the Bible is God's word or do you have *faith* this is so ?

zeener said:

Esoteric, meaning that the knowledge is only available to a select few. I believe anyone who digs can know the deeper things of God. One of my dearest friends came to Christ while on LSD. She said she was frying and then Jesus showed up and spoke to her. She told me that after this she never got high again and began to study the bible and became a born again Christian. I guess her experience could be viewed as "esoteric" in a way--but yet when you think about the Holy spirit and what He can do and how He longs to communicate with us and teach us, is it really an esoteric concept, this Holy spirit, since He is available and able to be to anyone and everyone?



In a sense that's what happens, no? We die and then our bodies are taken up from the earth. You can call it an immortal vessel I suppose.

1 Corinthians 15:42-57

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

I don't believe we are to be like "gods" but rather to be Christlike and like "God".

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Just semantically speaking ... I wonder how we would categorize the difference between a revelation and esoteric knowledge ... hmm ....

day time said:

Do you *know* (as in factual) that the Bible is God's word or do you have *faith* this is so ?

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Both =]

Bella Vita said:

Both =]

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Do you *know* in a way that can prove it to everyone else who doesn't know ?

ETA: Sorry, to keep us from going in circles, I should really ask: can you *know* this as a fact without the use of faith ...

day time said:

Just semantically speaking ... I wonder how we would categorize the difference between a revelation and esoteric knowledge ... hmm ....

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I don't know, really, how to do that other than maybe by God's intention? He intends that we all know Him, so that could be one major distinction between the two. The Holy spirit is actively pursuing us. We loved Him because He first loved us.

zeener said:

I don't know, really, how to do that other than maybe by God's intention? He intends that we all know Him, so that could be one major distinction between the two. The Holy spirit is actively pursuing us. We loved Him because He first loved us.

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I'm sorry lol :~) ... I should have been more clear I think:

By "semantically speaking" I meant the definitions of a revelation and the definitions of esoteric knowledge ... and by categorizing the difference between the two I meant more along the lines of how one involves the other ...

In other words, what is the role that revelation plays in relation to esoteric knowledge ... and what is the difference between someone or a group of people who have had a revelation, for example ... from a person or a group of people with esoteric knowledge.

this is a user name said:

Hello

This is my first post.

As a new Christian, should I literally believe in Noah's Ark and other biblical teachings such as the Story of Creation? Or could I see them as representative of moral truths? or what? Really confused. Thanks for any help.

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We were not at the "beginning".
God was and He gave His account of creation to Moses
who wrote it down as God gave it to Him.

God does not go into the science of creation, He simply takes credit for creation.

Jesus talks about Noah as a real person.
Jesus tells us that the world will be as in the days of Noah before His return.

I believe absolutely in Jesus Christ so if He refers to Noah and the flood, I believe it is true.

Jesus Christ is no liar, He is God in the form of a man and so that God's character is
perfectly expressed in God the Son, Jesus Christ.

Matthew 24:37 Jesus speaking:
But as the days of Noah were,
so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Matthew 24:38 Jesus speaking:
For as in the days before the flood,
they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away,
so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.



I do not care for human knowledge as a guide to
God and His mysteries because man's wisdom will all pass away.

The supernatual can only be understood and accepted by faith in the words and
truth of God as revealed through His prophets and His Christ.

Faith is needed in the person of God as He has reveal Himself to us.

What God has reveled to us in Christ is worth everything.

1 Corinthians 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men,
and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”;

The love of God toward us in Christ will outlast all the wisdom and knowledge of men.

1 Corinthians 13:8
Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies,
they will fail; whether there are tongues,
they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

day time said:

This last line of your post probably could use a "j/k" or something to that effect so that it doesn't come off as condescending. Just something to consider

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It didn't seem condescending to me.

He's going to great lengths to write about what he believes and thinks and I appreciate that. I might not agree with him or understand why he's bringing it up or get what he means but I appreciate that he's not preaching or heavy handed about it. Plus he encourages dialog, something so missing from this board too often.

zeener said:

You're using big words like hypotrochoid that require me to look them up, so in that respect, yes you're being a large headache--I mean I'm developing a migraine.

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I usually wont converse with someone with an obviously larger vocabulary then me because its too much work to sit with a dictionary to their mouth (as I always say).

I dont get a headache but I can sure relate on a certain level

That was cute lol

hypotrochoid.

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Oh, these here, aka "spirographs" right? I have a bunch of hypotrochoid kits sitting here unopened. I meant to get around to them but the didn't. My only interest in those was creating them, not to understand them.

zeener said:

It didn't seem condescending to me.

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Well that's cool then

day time said:

Do you *know* in a way that can prove it to everyone else who doesn't know ?

ETA: Sorry, to keep us from going in circles, I should really ask: can you *know* this as a fact without the use of faith ...

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Yes there are several ways we now it to be truth. Do some deep Bible study I guarantee you will feel the same way.

How do you as a Christian not believe in the Bible? Or do you I am confused...

Bella Vita said:

Yes there are several ways we now it to be truth. Do some deep Bible study I guarantee you will feel the same way.

How do you as a Christian not believe in the Bible? Or do you I am confused...

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Well, I wasn't really saying what I believed or not ... I was asking you about yours because I was trying to understand how you are defining things. You disagreed with this statement:

Circular reasoning. The Bible is infallible because the Bible says so is a logical fallacy.

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Where as I don't, but it could be because we are understanding "logic" differently, or "faith" differently, or "fact" differently .... by their definition, concept, and application. So to cut through a long discourse, I was trying to ask some "bottom line" questions so I could understand the basis of why you would think one thing about that statement and perhaps it's application, and I would think another :~). Maybe you've seen something I haven't that you could share that I'd be interested in, for example ... but I won't know what it is if we are defining things differently.

My neighbor claimed they saw a chupacabras in the neighborhood (this is a "mythical creature" if you don't know about it), my mother claimed she saw a wolf .... and they both reacted differently to it. My neighbor wanted to hide her small dogs and keep them from playing outside, and was concerned for her children. My mother was afraid of going outside at night ... told my kid about it, and from watching Scooby Doo he thought there was now a werewolf running around.

A few days later, I saw the thing going to work early in the morning. It was clearly a mangey coyote lol .... and I actually saw it for the next several months and it seemed to get better.

Everyone had proof and faith in the fact that my neighborhood had a werewolf/chupacabra/wolf in it. It was ridiculous to all of them to even question whether or not it was real. My neighbor friend pulled up on the internet the links about the chupacabras. "The chupacabras is real because the internet says it's real ... and I've experienced one with my own eyes."

I even played hide and seek with the thing one day ... chasing it from my back yard, to my front yard, to my back yard ... back and forth. I think it actually had fun doing it.

So sometimes I like to know what someone is *really* describing. Sometimes it's a simple thing, sometimes it isn't. I don't expect agreement all the time though, of course ... but I'm not looking for agreement. I'm looking to understand *you* ... :~)

Originally Posted by this is a user name

Hello

This is my first post.

As a new Christian, should I literally believe in Noah's Ark and other biblical teachings such as the Story of Creation? Or could I see them as representative of moral truths? or what? Really confused. Thanks for any help.
​

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Luke 1:37
For with God nothing shall be impossible.