Should Christians love themselves?

[2PhiloVoid]

He was a Catholic Bishop in Calvinist Geneva. (Which means he lived outside of town)

Francis de Sales

His treatise on the love of God became subject of a considerable controversy between Bossuet and Fenelon over weather self interest is part of Christian love.

Catholic Treasury | Treatise on the Love of God | St Francis de Sales

In the quote I gave, I hear him saying pure love of God has no self interest. Pure love doesn't love God in order to go to heaven, i.e. it's not about one's self. In fact, one with pure love would rather go to hell if it pleased God.

I'm not commending that point of view, just throwing it in the mix.

... ew. Well, forgive me, but just upon that cursory understanding, I'm about to throw it out ...

... it sounds rather self-depracating to me. YUCK!!!

 

[public hermit]

... ew. Well, forgive me, but just upon that cursory understanding, I'm about to throw it out ...

... it sounds rather self-depracating to me. YUCK!!!

I agree, but what about when Paul said he'd be willing to be separated from Christ for the sake of his fellow Jews? Was that hyperbole, perhaps?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I agree, but what about when Paul said he'd be willing to be separated from Christ for the sake of his fellow Jews? Was that hyperbole, perhaps?

No, I don't think it was hyperbole. Knowing Paul, he likely actually meant it on some level, but not without reason and not out of the overall context in which he said it. I mean, there's Paul saying he'd rather "cut himself off for the sake of his Jewish brethren," ....... and then there's also the telling account of Paul's bold statement, in-your-face reaction that he expresses and with which Luke closes at the end the book of Acts.

Is it any wonder that some folks in some of the churches that Paul adminstrated within thought he was a bit drafty and egoistic?

 

[public hermit]

Perhaps relevant to this discussion is "psychological egoism," which argues that no matter what we do, even the most altruistic act, is rooted in self interest.

Psychological egoism

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think you should have self esteem/self respect. But it should not turn into superiority complex.

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. Romans 12:3

... and you're definitely right, sister longwait! We should all guard against allowing self-esteem/self-respect to venture off into a form of superiority complex. That's for sure.

 

[public hermit]

Is it any wonder that some folks in some of the churches that Paul adminstrated within thought he was a bit drafty and egoistic?

Good point. Also interesting that you brought up egoism just as I was posting a link to psychological egoism.

Great minds think alike. We thought alike. We must have great minds! (<--- that is a fallacy known as affirming the consequent)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Good point. Also interesting that you brought up egoism just as I was posting a link to psychological egoism.

Great minds think alike. We thought alike. We must have great minds! (<--- that is a fallacy known as affirming the consequent)

Ok. Let's rephrase it then: we might have learned from others who ARE great minds !

 

[Rene Loup]

When Jesus teaches us to love our neighbor as ourselves, self-love is a given. But Jesus never goes out of his way to explain to us what love of self is. Add to that, we are told not to seek our own interests, but the interests of others (1 Cor. 10:24; Phil. 2:4). We are taught that the greatest serve the rest (Matt. 23:11), and that if we seek to save our lives we'll lose them (Luke 9:24). We are commanded to deny ourselves and take up our cross.

I would say this is what Christ-like love is, both towards oneself and others:

1 I may speak in different languages of men or even angels. But if I do not have love, then I am only a noisy bell or a ringing cymbal. 2 I may have the gift of prophecy; I may understand all the secret things of God and all knowledge; and I may have faith so great that I can move mountains. But even with all these things, if I do not have love, then I am nothing. 3 I may give everything I have to feed the poor. And I may even give my body as an offering to be burned. But I gain nothing by doing these things if I do not have love.

4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, and it is not proud. 5 Love is not rude, is not selfish, and does not become angry easily. Love does not remember wrongs done against it. 6 Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices over the truth. 7 Love patiently accepts all things. It always trusts, always hopes, and always continues strong.

8 Love never ends. There are gifts of prophecy, but they will be ended. There are gifts of speaking in different languages, but those gifts will end. There is the gift of knowledge, but it will be ended. 9 These things will end, because this knowledge and these prophecies we have are not complete. 10 But when perfection comes, the things that are not complete will end. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child; I thought like a child; I made plans like a child. When I became a man, I stopped those childish ways. 12 It is the same with us. Now we see as if we are looking into a dark mirror. But at that time, in the future, we shall see clearly. Now I know only a part. But at that time I will know fully, as God has known me. 13 So these three things continue forever: faith, hope and love. And the greatest of these is love.

~1 Corinthians 13 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - New King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - New International Version
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - International Children’s Bible

 

[Kenny'sID]

Absolutely. If self-love is lacking how will we treat our neighbors? What’s the measuring stick? What experiences do we draw from?

The worst encounters I’ve had are with those lacking self-love and regard. They were more likely to violate boundaries and be oblivious to the pain they caused others. I liken it to a bull in a china shop. It never ends well.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

Exactly.

"Love thy neighbor as thyself."

So, clearly we should love ourselves to one degree or another.

One level we should lack in is being full of ourselves or vain, but that falls in the area of being humble.

 

[bèlla]

... and you're definitely right, sister longwait! We should all guard against allowing self-esteem/self-respect to venture off into a form of superiority complex. That's for sure.

Brother Philo is in exceptional form as is Brother Hermit! We're blessed with their wit and intellect.

 

[Hmm]

Perhaps relevant to this discussion is "psychological egoism," which argues that no matter what we do, even the most altruistic act, is rooted in self interest.

I think some acts are purely altruistic such as giving up your life for others. It's hard to see where self-interest is in an act like that. And if it's a young and healthy person sacrificing their life for someone old and frail it's also hard to fms an evolutionary explanation. The precept to love others as you love yourself though would explain such acts.

It's interesting that Thomas Aquinas argues the we should love ourselves more than our neighbor.

Perhaps if we fill ourselves up so much with self-love it will begin to spill over onto other people!

 

[public hermit]

think some acts are purely altruistic such as giving up your life for others. It's hard to see where self-interest is in an act like that. And if it's a young and healthy person sacrificing their life for someone old and frail it's also hard to fms an evolutionary explanation. The precept to love others as you love yourself though would explain such acts

That's a great point. What would be the self interest in giving one's life for another? Would someone do that just to go to heaven, and having no interest in the one for whom they give their life up? Seems unlikely.

Perhaps if we fill ourselves up so much with self-love it will begin to spill over onto other people

That sounds right. Truly loving one's self (vs. selfishness) would be beneficial to others as well. @bèlla brought up the possibility that I can't really know how to love others unless I know how to love myself.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Brother Philo is in exceptional form as is Brother Hermit! We're blessed with their wit and intellect.

Thank you!

... and whether some folks know it or not, we're blessed with your poise, grace, wisdom and a big helping of much needed fashion sense!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

... The precept to love others as you love yourself though would explain such acts.

Perhaps if we fill ourselves up so much with self-love it will begin to spill over onto other people!

I've never ... quite ... heard it that way before.

Of course, my knowledge of Aquinas' teachings are limited.

 

[bèlla]

Thank you!

... and whether some folks know it or not, we're blessed with your poise, grace, wisdom and a big helping of much needed fashion sense!

Brother you're too kind. If you keep talking they'll realize we're twins!

 

[Hmm]

Truly loving one's self (vs. selfishness) would be beneficial to others as well. @bèlla brought up the possibility that I can't really know how to love others unless I know how to love myself.

Love is a small word but it has such a wealth of meanings. One definition I like is that love is trying to help the other person to be the best person they can be. Applying that to one's self that it would mean treating yourself so that you fulfill your potential and live the best life you can. So things like having a healthy sense of self-worth, self-confidence and self-forgiveness etc all come under the umbrella of self-love. IMO the idea that we are worthless and no more than "filthy rags" in our natural state makes it impossible to carry out the second commandment.

 

[SkyWriting]

Maybe the answer is obvious. With some qualification, I certainly think Christians should love themselves. But the scriptures can be confusing on this account, and I think there is a long tradition of considering self-love as sinful (consider the doctrine of total depravity, or extreme asceticism).

When Jesus teaches us to love our neighbor as ourselves, self-love is a given. But Jesus never goes out of his way to explain to us what love of self is.

He demonstrates it with his life and death.

Matthew 22:37-39
And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

What Does the Bible Say About Love Yourself?

 

[public hermit]

He demonstrates it with his life and death.

Matthew 22:37-39
And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

What Does the Bible Say About Love Yourself?

Perhaps the whole Christian life, done rightly, is an act of self love?

 

[David Hunter]

I was really convicted by a friend who said I love my self too much (context was that we were speaking of evangelism). But, it really got me thinking about that because I didn't think I loved myself. Then, really dwelling on it, and thinking about what Jesus says, "Love your neighbor as yourself" I felt like a whole new meaning opened up for me about that verse. I (note, this is my opinion) feel that Jesus is telling us that we should take the love we have for ourselves... deny ourselves of that love of self and give it to our neighbor.

So, no, I don't fee like we are supposed to love ourselves.

 

[public hermit]

I was really convicted by a friend who said I love my self too much (context was that we were speaking of evangelism). But, it really got me thinking about that because I didn't think I loved myself. Then, really dwelling on it, and thinking about what Jesus says, "Love your neighbor as yourself" I felt like a whole new meaning opened up for me about that verse. I (note, this is my opinion) feel that Jesus is telling us that we should take the love we have for ourselves... deny ourselves of that love of self and give it to our neighbor.

So, no, I don't fee like we are supposed to love ourselves.

Thank you for posting. Thus far, most have said we should love ourselves. So, it's good to hear another perspective.