Should Christians love themselves?

Should Christains love themselves?

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 86.2%
  • No

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29

public hermit

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Maybe the answer is obvious. With some qualification, I certainly think Christians should love themselves. But the scriptures can be confusing on this account, and I think there is a long tradition of considering self-love as sinful (consider the doctrine of total depravity, or extreme asceticism).

When Jesus teaches us to love our neighbor as ourselves, self-love is a given. But Jesus never goes out of his way to explain to us what love of self is. Add to that, we are told not to seek our own interests, but the interests of others (1 Cor. 10:24; Phil. 2:4). We are taught that the greatest serve the rest (Matt. 23:11), and that if we seek to save our lives we'll lose them (Luke 9:24). We are commanded to deny ourselves and take up our cross.

There doesn't seem to be a clear teaching about how to love ourselves. And yet, the implication of abundant and eternal life is that we seek what is good for ourselves. We are taught that God loves us, others are supposed to love us as they love their own selves, should we not love our selves?

What do you think? Should we love ourselves? Why or why not? What does self-love look like? Is self-love sinful or fulfillment?
 

Sabertooth

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Your poll is a bit black & white. I think that one's level of self-love falls in a range between narcissism & self-hatred. I think balance in that arena is one of the goals of the Holy Spirit in sanctification. Meekness is a related concept.
 
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public hermit

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Your poll is a bit black & white. I think that one's level of self-love falls in a range between narcissism & self-hatred. I think balance in that arena is one of the goals of the Holy Spirit in sanctification. Meekness is a related concept.

Does the "maybe" option allow for the nuance? What would be a better option?

So, you mean there is a negative kind of self love, and then proper self love that the Holy Spirit brings through sanctification?
 
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bèlla

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Absolutely. If self-love is lacking how will we treat our neighbors? What’s the measuring stick? What experiences do we draw from?

The worst encounters I’ve had are with those lacking self-love and regard. They were more likely to violate boundaries and be oblivious to the pain they caused others. I liken it to a bull in a china shop. It never ends well.

Yours in His Service,

~bella
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Absolutely. If self-love is lacking how will we treat our neighbors? What’s the measuring stick? What experiences do we draw from?

The worst encounters I’ve had are with those lacking self-love and regard. They were more likely to violate boundaries and be oblivious to the pain they caused others. I liken it to a bull in a china shop. It never ends well.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

Well.................so much for that Switchfoot song ..... but it's still one of my favorites ! :p
 
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Sabertooth

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Does the "maybe" option allow for the nuance? What would be a better option?
No. I'm sure that we are supposed to have a degree of self-love, but what degree is a "work in progress."
So, you mean there is a negative kind of self love, and then proper self love that the Holy Spirit brings through sanctification?
Yes. An ideal that He moves us toward.
 
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public hermit

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Francis De Sales held that one should have no consideration for self, but instead pure love for God. What does pure love for God look like? De Sales say the Christian with pure love for God

"...would rather have hell with the will of God than paradise without the will of God-yes, indeed, he would prefer hell to paradise if he knew that there was a little more of the divine good pleasure in the former than in the later" from Amour de Dieu

That's an astounding claim. But Paul said something similar when he said he would be willing to be separated from Christ if it meant his fellow Jews would come to faith.
 
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public hermit

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If self-love is lacking how will we treat our neighbors? What’s the measuring stick? What experiences do we draw from?

That makes sense to me. How does love of self relate to Paul's statement that we should not look to our own interests, but to the interests of others? To me, those sound mutually exclusive.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Maybe the answer is obvious. With some qualification, I certainly think Christians should love themselves. But the scriptures can be confusing on this account, and I think there is a long tradition of considering self-love as sinful (consider the doctrine of total depravity, or extreme asceticism).

When Jesus teaches us to love our neighbor as ourselves, self-love is a given. But Jesus never goes out of his way to explain to us what love of self is. Add to that, we are told not to seek our own interests, but the interests of others (1 Cor. 10:24; Phil. 2:4). We are taught that the greatest serve the rest (Matt. 23:11), and that if we seek to save our lives we'll lose them (Luke 9:24). We are commanded to deny ourselves and take up our cross.

There doesn't seem to be a clear teaching about how to love ourselves. And yet, the implication of abundant and eternal life is that we seek what is good for ourselves. We are taught that God loves us, others are supposed to love us as they love their own selves, should we not love our selves?

What do you think? Should we love ourselves? Why or why not? What does self-love look like? Is self-love sinful or fulfillment?

I was never fan of asceticism, let alone of the few but extreme variants we find of it in church history.

I'm also not a fan of pop-psychology either, especially Christianized pop-psychology that sees a demon in every crevice (although I think there are a few here or there), or a narcissist behind every bold, outspoken set of lips that dares to tell us something we might not like or agree with.

In line with the balance of definition that @Sabertooth mentioned above, I also think that when Jesus tells us to "love others as we love ourselves," He is alluding to self-love in such a way that is practical and incorporates the human significance we each have as individual creations of the Lord who are made in His Image, however fractured we may be in that regard.

A Christian notion of self-love (should be) common sense for us to apprehend and realize. Unfortunately, what with some of the various oddball and contorted teachings that exist and have existed in some churches, the whole definition for it can become a wax-nose to shape at will, especially when some person doesn't like another persons personality or taste or style or method or ..... add an item to the list.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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That makes sense to me. How does love of self relate to Paul's statement that we should not look to our own interests, but to the interests of others? To me, those sound mutually exclusive.


We need a moderate amount of self love otherwise we are not going to take care of ourselves, and that is something that God wants us to do. But the Bible is obviously against a lot of the 1970s Self Esteem movement that a lot of Christianity has embraced through the culture.


Their is a paradoxical nature to a lot of this. Where we are often better off not focusing on ourselves because doing so makes us more neurotic, where all our problems, fears etc. tend to get magnified, grow etc. Besides this, there is also a "Systems Theory" aspect too, that if you can get people as a group to prefer others to themselves you actually build the ideal society, rather than some "Survival of the Fittest" rat race.


Lately I've been watching some self help videos from various world Philosophies it is interesting how many other people have reached similar conclusions like Confucianism, Stoicism, Buddhism etc.
 
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public hermit

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Their is a paradoxical nature to a lot of this. Where we are often better off not focusing on ourselves because doing so makes us more neurotic, where all our problems, fears etc. tend to get magnified, grow etc. Besides this, there is also a "Systems Theory" aspect too, that if you can get people as a group to prefer others to themselves you actually build the ideal society, rather than some "Survival of the Fittest" rat race.

That's really interesting because it is paradoxical. But, it goes along with Jesus statement that if we lose ourselves for his sake we, counter-intuitively, gain ourselves.

Lately I've been watching some self help videos from various world Philosophies it is interesting how many other people have reached similar conclusions like Confucianism etc

Stoicism, too?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Francis De Sales held that one should have no consideration for self, but instead pure love for God. What does pure love for God look like? De Sales say the Christian with pure love for God

"...would rather have hell with the will of God than paradise without the will of God-yes, indeed, he would prefer hell to paradise if he knew that there was a little more of the divine good pleasure in the former than in the later" from Amour de Dieu

That's an astounding claim. But Paul said something similar when he said he would be willing to be separated from Christ if it meant his fellow Jews would come to faith.

You may have to unpack this for us, PH. I'm not familiar with Francis De Sales, and just from my brain's brief introduction here to his definition, I can't tell if I can find agreement with him in it or not.
 
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longwait

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Maybe the answer is obvious. With some qualification, I certainly think Christians should love themselves. But the scriptures can be confusing on this account, and I think there is a long tradition of considering self-love as sinful (consider the doctrine of total depravity, or extreme asceticism).

When Jesus teaches us to love our neighbor as ourselves, self-love is a given. But Jesus never goes out of his way to explain to us what love of self is. Add to that, we are told not to seek our own interests, but the interests of others (1 Cor. 10:24; Phil. 2:4). We are taught that the greatest serve the rest (Matt. 23:11), and that if we seek to save our lives we'll lose them (Luke 9:24). We are commanded to deny ourselves and take up our cross.

There doesn't seem to be a clear teaching about how to love ourselves. And yet, the implication of abundant and eternal life is that we seek what is good for ourselves. We are taught that God loves us, others are supposed to love us as they love their own selves, should we not love our selves?

What do you think? Should we love ourselves? Why or why not? What does self-love look like? Is self-love sinful or fulfillment?

I think you should have self esteem/self respect. But it should not turn into superiority complex.

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. Romans 12:3
 
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jacks

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“Master, which is the great Commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang ALL the law and the prophets.” Matthew 22:36-40
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I think you should have self esteem/self respect. But it should not turn into superiority complex.

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. Romans 12:3

I was just about to quote that same verse. Thanks!

So, how "ought" we think of ourselves? Somehow, I don't think the answer means thinking of ourselves in Hyper-Calvinistic terms: i.e. we're just walking sludge pools who should feel lucky to even be alive.

Yeah, I don't buy that. Not for one moment!!! It doesn't sound very "sober" to me.
 
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bèlla

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That makes sense to me. How does love of self relate to Paul's statement that we should not look to our own interests, but to the interests of others? To me, those sound mutually exclusive.

Speaking only for myself, self-love compels giving and compassion. I want to see others thriving and contribute to their growth. I’m not threatened by difference. I don’t feel God is holding out because my neighbor has something I lack.

Self-love fosters contentment. I celebrate with others. It’s not a competition. We’re after the same thing. I’m genuinely happy for you. There’s different degrees of self-love and contentment. Disparity is the best barometer.

You won’t see your innards with others where you are. You need to be in the company of those beyond your position and gauge your reaction. You look for cracks in the exterior. Little annoyances and aggravations that stand out. Exploring them reveals insecurities, unmet desires, and pain you’ve camouflaged. The reverse holds true. Being in the presence of those with less can reveal biases and negative thoughts.

When we speak of contentment in all circumstances we’re addressing everyday situations and those beyond the norm. Both good and bad. If God can’t place you before the king without internal triggers going off. You’re not content. Not in the manner Paul speaks of. If He can’t send you to a village the same applies.

Self-love requires adaptability and contentment demands humility. You need both to carryout the great commission successfully. Then God can send you anywhere. You can minister to people from all walks of life. Because you’re not getting in the way. That’s usually the problem.

~bella
 
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Pavel Mosko

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That's really interesting because it is paradoxical. But, it goes along with Jesus statement that if we lose ourselves for his sake we, counter-intuitively, gain ourselves.

I don't see it as contradictory, because most people's internal thermostat is set on selfish. So people typically have to be given this advise. I often have to meditate on it, but it often helps me especially when I have anxiety etc. from focusing on my problems etc. Taking a break from yourself is often good medicine, to the point that one famous psychologist made a formal principle / technique based on it.

dereflection – Viktor Frankl's Logotherapy


But a lot of this has to do with what the Bible calls "the flesh" sarx. The sarx is not evil, but it needs to be tamed. Certain things like the pleasure principle etc. can help you etc. The fact that you don't like pain, means that you avoid things that will permanently damage you etc. So things like that are useful and necessary.
 
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public hermit

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It's interesting that Thomas Aquinas argues the we should love ourselves more than our neighbor.

"Therefore man, out of charity, ought to love himself more than his neighbor: in sign whereof, a man ought not to give way to any evil of sin, which counteracts his share of happiness, not even that he may free his neighbor from sin."

SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The order of charity (Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 26)

No doubt his thinking here is influenced by the Aristotelian notion that we naturally seek our own good
 
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You may have to unpack this for us, PH. I'm not familiar with Francis De Sales, and just from my brain's brief introduction here to his definition, I can't tell if I can find agreement with him in it or not.

He was a Catholic Bishop in Calvinist Geneva. (Which means he lived outside of town)

Francis de Sales

His treatise on the love of God became subject of a considerable controversy between Bossuet and Fenelon over weather self interest is part of Christian love.

Catholic Treasury | Treatise on the Love of God | St Francis de Sales

In the quote I gave, I hear him saying pure love of God has no self interest. Pure love doesn't love God in order to go to heaven, i.e. it's not about one's self. In fact, one with pure love would rather go to hell if it pleased God.

I'm not commending that point of view, just throwing it in the mix. :)
 
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