Should Catholics date Protestants?

[zhilan]

Is a woman obliged to obey her husband when said obedience is sinful? Serious question...

I would imagine the answer to that is "no", which means that the wife would be correct to raise her children Catholic, against her husbands wishes.

I think that would be the case, but that would be a -very- difficult situation. How do you raise the children in the faith against the other parents wishes? Regardless of whether it's the husband or wife doing it, that would be so confusing to the kids to have their parent undermining what the other parent is trying to do.

 

[AMDG]

and wives are Biblically required to submit to their husbands...

Biblically, wives AND husbands are to submit to each other. (Check it out.)

Are you saying that the husband chose to lie to God when he promised Him that he would do all he could to Baptize and raise the children of the marriage as Catholic?

 

[Andoverpolo]

I don't think interfaith marriges are a good idea- division should be avoided as much as possible. But I believe it could work out under the right circumstances.


I could never marry a Protestant woman though. Catholic gals, IMO, are far too superior. They got that extra something that makes my discernment into being a priest very hard!

I agree with the first part.

As for the second, one of the things that's always fascinated me about my wife is how devout she is. I used to wait for her in the back of her schools parish before she changed to my grade school. I would watch her kneeling, getting back up, singing, praying and kneeling again not understanding (or respecting) any of this... mostly just fascinated in how engaged she was about the whole thing - and rather impatient for her to be finished so we could go have fun.

I thought of her as my superstitious little Annette for many years when I was basically an atheist but when that lead me to self destruction she was there with strength for both of us because of her "little ideas" - that's when I really 'got it.'

 

[Debi1967]

Debi, did you or did you not make a broad based accusation that people were being 'elitist' in this thread?

I have a very hard time understanding you. Since I can understand others without problem, I am going to assume that it's you that has a difficult time communicating your thoughts. They are all over the place, I have asked you pointed questions and you've replied with broad open ended replies such as 'Jesus Is Love therefore my opinion is correct'-- I think it would probably be fruitless to continue this, I am sorry I have let it go on this long.

Let's see I guess maybe what I have found not so much in your posts Michelle but in other's, disturbing is the sense of elitism. As if marrying outside of the Church would be such a horrible thing indeed.

I don't think that is an accusation I think that is stating what I felt a sense of..... an appearance of .... or what seemed to be conveyed....

This later I expounded upon.

What I find funny is first you accused me of taking things to heart and not speaking in generalities in this thread to which I assured you I was, now that is being used against me! Now I am being to general when I speak?!? Please Michelle I am not doing anything wrong here accept maybe speaking in a way you think is incorrect therefore you are now taking to heart my words.

And since when is speaking about my own marriage and my own feelings inside of my marriage speaking in generalities anyway? I don't get that one either...... *Debi sits and scratches her head now*

 

[Andoverpolo]

Hmmm...now I have a question to that...

If the husband is Protestant...and the wife is Catholic...and the husband decides to NOT raise their children Catholic....and wives are Biblically required to submit to their husbands...

What then?

Disobey their husbands and take the children to a Catholic Church anyways? Or find an alternative?

The Church is God's continued ministry on Earth, guided by his Holy Spirit, disobeying the Church is disobeying God's wishes and that means disobeying Him. Your highest responsibility is to God - if that means forsaking your family as Jesus asks you to in Matthew 10:37, to follow the examples of Job and Lot then that is exactly what you have to do.

So yes, disobey your husband if he tells you to do something sinful. Such as raising your child anything other than Catholic.

 

[The Princess Bride]

Is a woman obliged to obey her husband when said obedience is sinful? Serious question...

I would imagine the answer to that is "no", which means that the wife would be correct to raise her children Catholic, against her husbands wishes.

How would that be sinful?

Are you saying that the husband chose to lie to God when he promised Him that he would do all he could to Baptize and raise the children of the marriage as Catholic?

Is that somehow tied into marriage vows? Because I have never heard that before....

 

[Debi1967]

RaggedRobbin, such a long post. I hope I can address at least most of the points.

Yes, each situation is different, some offer no problem in the fact that for some love makes everything go smoothly while others simply don't care about their Faith enough to "stick out the rough spots" a mixed marriage will emphasize so their giving up their Faith makes things go smoothly in their eyes. (Sorry, no "judging", I just can't for the life of me understand "giving up the Real Prescence of Jesus".) Still, IMO, it is highly imprudent to "tempt faith" with the idea that "only the good can happen" or the idea of "if worse comes to worse, we can always get married outside the Church first and then force the Church to bless the union that already exists. And so while dating, Catholics and non-Catholics can date, but it doesn't seem too wise (particularly since dating is supposed to allow a person a chance to "pick his future husband/wife).

About that "equally/unequally yoked" thing to mean Catholics and non-Catholics, I've never understood it at all. (Although the way you put it has me I looking at it almost wistfully since I guess it would make things extremely easy.) But,by that my husband and I would never have been able to marry. I didn't want to change my husband-to-be. I was perfectly happy to have him a Baptist. (Afterall, that's part of him and probably what makes him what he is.) I simply wanted to remain Catholic. Anyway I always took that verse about "unequally yoked" to mean marriage of a non-believer and a Christian anyway. (Although if you go to GT or actually speak with many Protestants--as in Baptist, Episcopal, Methodist,... you'll find that they lump Catholics in the non-believer category. I don't know what they do with 1 Corinthians 7:14 which says, "For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband.")

BTW, I believe that the Church is very magnanimous. The Church allows mixed marriages (marriages of Baptized non-Christians and Catholics) AND those marriages of disparity of cult (marriages of non-Baptized non-Christians and Catholics.) Paragraph 1633 and 1634 of the Catholic Catechism address the problems quite well, and paragraph 1635 of the Catholic Catechism: "According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the espress permission of ecclesiastical authority. In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage. This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage and the obligations assumed by the Catholic party concerning the Baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church."

As far as the Eastern rite Catholic/Roman rite Catholic, you have just described my best friend's marriage--Rutherian Byzantine and.... (You do know that both rites make up the ONE Catholic Church and one Faith, unlike the different denominations.) Although she'll go to a Roman rite parish by her, she can also attend the Byzantine Church not too far from here. Although technically Baptized into the Roman rite, I too sometimes attend the Byzantine Divine Liturgy.

Thank you AMDG i think I better understand what you were trying to say and where you were coming from now and have enjoyed our conversation fully.

 

[NDIrish]

How would that be sinful?

If the Catholic Church contains the fullness of the Truth, to deprive your child of that would be sinful.

Is that somehow tied into marriage vows? Because I have never heard that before....

Yep...part of marriage prep involves a commitment by a non-Catholic spouse to raise the children Catholic. It's not a vow, per se, but it is a commitment.

 

[Debi1967]

How would that be sinful?




Is that somehow tied into marriage vows? Because I have never heard that before....

Heather,
If they got married within the confines of the Church nad had the marriage Blessed, or recieved Dispensation then yes....
Three criteria are required of any spouse that is not Catholic.

1) not to impede the Catholic in their Faith and worship
2) To baptize all children of that marriage Catholic
3) To raise them Catholic and not to impede this either.

If these requirements are not met then the Catholic that enters into a marriage with a Non-Catholic will not be able to continue to recieve the Sacraments. Also there must be no Sex before marriage of course .... And they should attend certain classes in preparation for marriage and for raising of the children of marriage together.

 

[The Princess Bride]

If the Catholic Church contains the fullness of the Truth, to deprive your child of that would be sinful.

I do not entirely agree, but I do respect your convictions.

Yep...part of marriage prep involves a commitment by a non-Catholic spouse to raise the children Catholic. It's not a vow, per se, but it is a commitment.

I never knew...Even Mod's never cease to learn!

 

[The Princess Bride]

Heather,
If they got married within the confines of the Church nad had the marriage Blessed, or recieved Dispensation then yes....
Three criteria are required of any spouse that is not Catholic.

1) not to impede the Catholic in their Faith and worship
2) To baptize all children of that marriage Catholic
3) To raise them Catholic and not to impede this either.

If these requirements are not met then the Catholic that enters into a marriage with a Non-Catholic will not be able to continue to recieve the Sacraments. Also there must be no Sex before marriage of course .... And they should attend certain classes in preparation for marriage and for raising of the children of marriage together.

What if the marriage ceremony is in the church of the other spouse?
Would these standards still apply?

 

[Debi1967]

[/b]
What if the marriage ceremony is in the church of the other spouse?
Would these standards still apply?

Umm I could be corrected on this but I do not think that is allowed.

Let me actually correct this to a certain extent if you have a baptized Catholic like myself, and my situation, for example my marriage was valid. It did not take place within the Church instead it took place outside of the Church however, when I went to talk to the priests I had to stop recieving the Sacraments until such time as the requirements had been met. Then my husband and I had our marriage Blessed by the Church, or recieved Dispensation as been said in this thread. My husband only went to the classes he needed at the time. He now will attend the whole of RCIA. We also went to private counseling with the priest. This was a process that took us about 6 months.

 

[The Princess Bride]

Umm I could be corrected on this but I do not think that is allowed.

I'm not trying to be difficult...I just like asking questions, and trying to see and understand things from every angle.

 

[Assisi]

[/b]
What if the marriage ceremony is in the church of the other spouse?
Would these standards still apply?

You can get a dispensation for that.

 

[Debi1967]

I'm not trying to be difficult...I just like asking questions, and trying to see and understand things from every angle.

Well obviously I do not think you are trying to be difficult at all and it is no problem as I thought of the situation of myself afterwards and how I had to get my marriage Blessed.

Thankfully my husband was willing and was agreeable to everything. I knew he would be though. Although I did not quite know the process it would take.

I actually had to learn quite a bit about that particular little thing. However, I am still not sure the Church would encourage you getting married beforehand in another Church without also having a ceremony of some sort also in the CC too. Even if it is to have the marriage Blessed the way I did.

However I would not encourage anyone to take the route I did. I lost much in not being able to recieve the Sacraments during that time. That however is my personal opinion.

 

[racer]

[/b]
What if the marriage ceremony is in the church of the other spouse?
Would these standards still apply?

Actually, those standards are not required. (forgive me, RR.) My daughter married a Catholic, and was not baptised Catholic, nor did she convert at the time of the marriage. However, only the husband was required to make any concessions. He had only to vow that he would make every effort to bring all of his family to the Catholic Church and make every effort to have his children baptised Catholic.

Didn't mean to but in, but I thought I might could clear it up a bit.

 

[Debi1967]

You can get a dispensation for that.

Assisi <br><br>Not to act dumb or anything but could you explain to me how that might work, because genuinely I am interested to know. <br><br>I know my cousin just got one, but I was not involved at all with the planning of the wedding and so I was not privy to how it all worked. I live so far away now my Aunt just took care of it all I think. They actually had a double ceremony. <br><br>Would you know how that works in getting that all done? <br>

 

[Debi1967]

Actually, those standards are not required. (forgive me, RR.) My daughter married a Catholic, and was not baptised Catholic, nor did she convert at the time of the marriage. However, only the husband was required to make any concessions. He had only to vow that he would make every effort to bring all of his family to the Catholic Church and make every effort to have his children baptised Catholic.

Didn't mean to but in, but I thought I might could clear it up a bit.

Actually we have shown the Catechism quotes and I have been to see the priests on this issue with my own marriage it is a requirement for the Catholic to be able to continue to recieve Communion.

And in every situation there are always those priests that although well meaning in their intentions, do not apply to the strictness of the Church.

I am sorry to hear that your daughter's husband's priest was one of them.

 

[WarriorAngel]

There is a first for everything, and this is my first MOD HAT post.

I am going to ask that we respect one another and love one another in our posts, or I fear I may be left to no other alternative than to close this.

Speak to one another as though you are speaking to Christ Himself.

Peace!

 

[racer]

Actually we have shown the Catechism quotes and I have been to see the priests on this issue with my own marriage it is a requirement for the Catholic to be able to continue to recieve Communion. <br><br>And in every situation there are always those priests that although well meaning in their intentions, do not apply to the strictness of the Church. <br><br>I am sorry to hear that your daughter's husband's priest was one of them. <br>

Well, I won't deny that her husband's priest was over liberal when it came to her personal conversion. So, I certainly won't quibble with you if you can cite the Catechism. But, he did sign the documents that stated only that "he would make every effort . . . " This entitled him to take part in communion.

Could you refer me to the post # where you cite the Cathechism. I would like to read it.