Should Catholic priests be allowed to marry?

[Red Gold]

Should Catholic priests be allowed to marry?

 

[Red Gold]

I say: why not?

 

[Anhelyna]

Please remember that there are Eastern Catholic Churches that do have married priests - and those priests are married before they were ordained as Deacons.

 

[Red Gold]

Please remember that there are Eastern Catholic Churches that do have married priests - and those priests are married before they were ordained as Deacons.

Then why can't the Western Catholic Churches not do the same?

 

[Red Gold]

I do think that priests should be allowed to marry.

 

[pdudgeon]

Please remember that there are Eastern Catholic Churches that do have married priests - and those priests are married before they were ordained as Deacons.

What you say is true, but it was not like that in the beginning, nor was it ever intended to be that way.
The whole point of a Christian priest remaining celibate was three fold:
1.So that he could devote his whole life to God.
2. So that he could be always available to serve and to guide his flock.
3. So that he would be free to follow wherever God said to go, and not be encumbered with a wife and family, and the conflicting concerns that a marriage would bring to his life.

If Jesus had wanted to marry, as a Jewish priest, He could have.
But instead He chose not to, because He had a greater mission to fulfill to the whole of Creation.
He chose His own sacrifice of not having a wedded life and children in His Earthly life, for our sake.

Today our priests still choose to make that same sacrifice, and they do so every time that they bless another couple in marriage, or baptize/christen the children of their parish.
So instead of having their own family, they offer that vocation of marriage and fatherhood up to God as their personal sacrifice, and they follow the example that Jesus laid down for His own disciples from the beginning.
The Eastern Catholic priests are married men before they become priests, following the older Jewish example of priesthood that was set and blessed by God before the birth of Christ.

And in exchange, God gives each priest charge over a multitude of families: a wealth of brothers and sisters, mother's and father's, and entire generations of many families.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

Technically they already do, as has been pointed out.

I know your are referring to the Roman Rite which had some great deal of history. It is an ancient and venerable tradition, but was expanded to more of the west much later.

And a lot of that history is checkered. German priests were known to be prolific breeders, with more than 90% in common law marriages at some points in history... really not becoming reduced unde ther moder era and it's problem with homosexuality.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

And if they are already priests, there is no precedent anywhere to let them marry. Where married priests are allowed, they are to be married before ordination and cannot remarry under any circumstances without laicization.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

What you say is true, but it was not like that in the beginning, nor was it ever intended to be that way.
The whole point of a Christian priest remaining celibate was three fold:
1.So that he could devote his whole life to God.
2. So that he could be always available to serve and to guide his flock.
3. So that he would be free to follow wherever God said to go, and not be encumbered with a wife and family, and the conflicting concerns that a marriage would bring to his life.

If Jesus had wanted to marry, as a Jewish priest, He could have.
But instead He chose not to, because He had a greater mission to fulfill to the whole of Creation.
He chose His own sacrifice of not having a wedded life and children in His Earthly life, for our sake.

Today our priests still choose to make that same sacrifice, and they do so every time that they bless another couple in marriage, or baptize/christen the children of their parish.
So instead of having their own family, they offer that vocation of marriage and fatherhood up to God as their personal sacrifice, and they follow the example that Jesus laid down for His own disciples from the beginning.
The Eastern Catholic priests are married men before they become priests, following the older Jewish example of priesthood that was set and blessed by God before the birth of Christ.

And in exchange, God gives each priest charge over a multitude of families: a wealth of brothers and sisters, mother's and father's, and entire generations of many families.

Historically, it was that way in the beginning. It wasn't until Nicaea that married bishops was banned as taboo (and the practice continued uncommonly in places for several centuries... and continues in the Persian Church.)

And prior to the levitical priesthood, going back to Adam, the father was the priest of the family.

 

[narnia59]

Jesus himself says that not all men can receive this precept, but only those to whom it is given.... He who is able to receive this, let him receive it. (Matthew 19:11-12) His expectation seems to be that some will be called and able to live a life of celibacy.

St. Paul is unmarried, and he witnesses the anxiety that can occur when married men serve in full time ministry. "I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. " (1 Cortinthians 7:32-34)

What St. Paul noticed 2000 years ago is not ancient history. In 2011 the Christian post published an article titled “Leading and Loving It: Pastors’ Wives Overcome Depression” (link below). Some noteworthy findings from their research:

• Eight in 10 pastors’ wives say they feel unappreciated or unaccepted by their husbands’ congregations
• 80 percent of pastors’ wives responded that they wish their husbands would choose another profession
• “Wives’ issues” is the No. 1 reason pastors leave their ministries
• The divorce rate among pastoral couples is similar to that of general public, around 50 percent.

And perhaps one of the more noteworthy quotes from the article is from H.B. London, former vice president of church and clergy for Focus on the Family and author of “Married to a Pastor”– “The church becomes their husband’s mistress, and they in many ways [wives] lose their identity.”

https://www.christianpost.com/news/leading-and-loving-it-pastors-wives-overcome-depression.

The priesthood is not just another job. Both marriage and the priesthood are full time vocations, and a man's interests will be divided between how to best fulfill the two, leading to the anxiety St. Paul recognized. So why would we want to support or create a situation where we have priests in that position, and in the position where 80% of their wives wish they weren't priests at all?

 

[pdudgeon]

Historically, it was that way in the beginning. It wasn't until Nicaea that married bishops was banned as taboo (and the practice continued uncommonly in places for several centuries... and continues in the Persian Church.)

And prior to the levitical priesthood, going back to Adam, the father was the priest of the family.

Please excuse me for not being clear in my post.
When I refered to the "beginning", I was speaking of the calling of the first disciples by Jesus, their training, their testing, and after Christ's death and resurrection on Easter, their coming together with Mary, the Mother of God, to carry out Christ's work and spread His gospel to other followers.
We see how they went by two's as instructed by Christ, how they first were received into various houses to teach and minister, and how the Church grew from their early ministry.
Hope that helps.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

Jesus himself says that not all men can receive this precept, but only those to whom it is given.... He who is able to receive this, let him receive it. (Matthew 19:11-12) His expectation seems to be that some will be called and able to live a life of celibacy.

St. Paul is unmarried, and he witnesses the anxiety that can occur when married men serve in full time ministry. "I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. " (1 Cortinthians 7:32-34)

What St. Paul noticed 2000 years ago is not ancient history. In 2011 the Christian post published an article titled “Leading and Loving It: Pastors’ Wives Overcome Depression” (link below). Some noteworthy findings from their research:

• Eight in 10 pastors’ wives say they feel unappreciated or unaccepted by their husbands’ congregations
• 80 percent of pastors’ wives responded that they wish their husbands would choose another profession
• “Wives’ issues” is the No. 1 reason pastors leave their ministries
• The divorce rate among pastoral couples is similar to that of general public, around 50 percent.

And perhaps one of the more noteworthy quotes from the article is from H.B. London, former vice president of church and clergy for Focus on the Family and author of “Married to a Pastor”– “The church becomes their husband’s mistress, and they in many ways [wives] lose their identity.”

https://www.christianpost.com/news/leading-and-loving-it-pastors-wives-overcome-depression.

The priesthood is not just another job. Both marriage and the priesthood are full time vocations, and a man's interests will be divided between how to best fulfill the two, leading to the anxiety St. Paul recognized. So why would we want to support or create a situation where we have priests in that position, and in the position where 80% of their wives wish they weren't priests at all?

The priesthood is not a 'job' at all according to St. Paul. But we take care of priests financially which has always been tradition. And if we are to base celibacy on difficulties families face in light of the father's occupation, wouldn't we have to say the same about Cops, Soldiers, and other occupations?

What Paul is speaking about isn't exclusive to priestd or pastors, but to all people. It is easier to focus on God without the having the worries of the duties of family life. A father or a mother does have to sacrifice themselves for their children and do have to provide and do have the utmost responsibility of care for their children- these are distractions from a life solely focused on God. But for someone in family life, if they were to focus solely on God and not meet their familial responsibilities, they do sin greatly - it is not a sinful distraction.

However, if you are being distracted in other ways, the celibate life is futile and more futile than family life. A celibate person must dedicate themselves wholly to God. And every single person should be celibate until married.

Besides Paul, most of the apostles were married, including St. Peter. And St. Peter's daughter is St. Petronas. Their apostolic mission (Pardon my redundancy in that phrase) did not annul their marriages.

Still, a pastor and a priest are (can be) different things in the modern world. And priest is supported by a hierarchy and the parish in a way Protestant pastors usually are not. Eastern Rite and Ordinariate families of married priests do not appear to face the same difficulties as their pastor counterparts and do not have anywhere near as high divorce rates. As if such occurs, the priest becomes a celibate priest or leaves the priesthood (laicization.)A requirement of married priests, which is given in the New Testament, is that there family lives be in proper order.This requirement is not placed on pastors in any meaningful way.

 

[narnia59]

The priesthood is not a 'job' at all according to St. Paul. But we take care of priests financially which has always been tradition. And if we are to base celibacy on difficulties families face in light of the father's occupation, wouldn't we have to say the same about Cops, Soldiers, and other occupations?

What Paul is speaking about isn't exclusive to priestd or pastors, but to all people. It is easier to focus on God without the having the worries of the duties of family life. A father or a mother does have to sacrifice themselves for their children and do have to provide and do have the utmost responsibility of care for their children- these are distractions from a life solely focused on God. But for someone in family life, if they were to focus solely on God and not meet their familial responsibilities, they do sin greatly - it is not a sinful distraction.

However, if you are being distracted in other ways, the celibate life is futile and more futile than family life. A celibate person must dedicate themselves wholly to God. And every single person should be celibate until married.

Besides Paul, most of the apostles were married, including St. Peter. And St. Peter's daughter is St. Petronas. Their apostolic mission (Pardon my redundancy in that phrase) did not annul their marriages.

Still, a pastor and a priest are (can be) different things in the modern world. And priest is supported by a hierarchy and the parish in a way Protestant pastors usually are not. Eastern Rite and Ordinariate families of married priests do not appear to face the same difficulties as their pastor counterparts and do not have anywhere near as high divorce rates. As if such occurs, the priest becomes a celibate priest or leaves the priesthood (laicization.)A requirement of married priests, which is given in the New Testament, is that there family lives be in proper order.This requirement is not placed on pastors in any meaningful way.

It is indeed easier for all people to focus on God without family responsibilities. But very few jobs/vocations in the secular world require the kind of hours and dedication it requires to effectively pastor a parish. That is why the anxiety level and stress on a marriage can be so much higher for a married clergyman than a married accountant. Married accountants don't get called at all hours of the day or night to rush to the side of a parishioner. They don't have to miss family functions to tend their flock.

My impression of the Eastern rites and Eastern Orthodox is that in general their parishes are much, much smaller than Catholic ones, or even many Protestant churches. If the size of the congregation is limited then I'm sure the stress level would go down. But we don't have enough priests to really do that. One common opinion is that if married men could be priests we would have more of them. From what I can tell the Eastern Orthodox have a shortage of priests as well though. The church in my mid-sized town (250,000) has been without a regular pastor for years.

I also know that my current pastor has made the comment that if he had a family, and there was a time when there was a conflict between what his family needed from him, or someone in his parish needed from him, his family would win hands down. Every time. And that would leave a lot of people in need without the presence of a pastor.

The reverse of that would be what is seen in the stereotypical "PK" -- preacher's kid, who is often starved for attention because their father would make a different choice than my pastor.

All in all, I am thankful for the priests in my life who have been able to accept the gift of celibacy and put all of their heart, mind, and soul into their priesthood. I believe the Church is better for it.

 

[Red Gold]

Catholic priests need not be celibate before around 1100 AD.
Was that bad?

 

[narnia59]

Catholic priests need not be celibate before around 1100 AD.
Was that bad?

If there weren't problems, why do you think the Church began to require the dicscipline of celibacy for her priests?

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

The question isnt asked in a meaningfull way. Its not so much about catholic priests and their ability to marry that is a controversial topic in the church today. Its the question wether or not catholic priests should be allowed to marry prior to their ordination. As the question was originally asked Id say no. Its not possible nor desirable. As for priests getting married prior to entrace to the clergy, it could in principle be permited, but there are good reasons why it shouldnt be so..

 

[Red Gold]

The question isnt asked in a meaningfull way.

Then open a thread of your own and ask this question in a meaningful way.

 

[BrAndreyu]

Eastern Rite priests are allowed to be married, so I don't see why Latin Rite priests aren't these days.

They used to be able to, which led to the children of priests becoming priests and then a family retaining a tight grip over a parish, which is how land used to be "zoned" back in the middle ages, so eventually the rule came down that priests in the Latin Rite had to be celibate. Seeing as land is no longer "zoned" according to parishes anymore, I don't see why Latin Rite priests should have to be celibate when Eastern Rite priests (and Orthodox priests) don't have to be.

 

[Red Gold]

Eastern Rite priests are allowed to be married, so I don't see why Latin Rite priests aren't these days.

Very sensible!
That is exactly what I think as well!

 

[Anhelyna]

Not all Eastern Catholic priests can be married - IIRC the Syro Malabar ,and the Malankara priests are celibate.