Should a Christian use a VPN or is that sort of like lying?

[Isilwen]

I don’t really intend to pick on the OP. But in my experience here, these types of ideas usually come from folks that don’t belong to a local congregation.

I'm not really part of a local congregation myself, however, to me it's using the brain given to me by God to see the difference between using something for good or for evil.

 

[ChetSinger]

It's very rare that people use their real name these days on a forum. That still does not change the reality that most people realize that a "username" is not the real person's name in most cases. Your name sounds like a username and most probably would not suspect it was a real name. So your safe. I have talked on internet forums since 2004. Not once did I ever see anyone confused as to a person's username being a real name and that folks were lying. VPN is different because one is actually saying they are in a different real location when they are not in that real location. They are not going to assume that everyone is using a VPN and they are going to think you are in that real location when you are not. If the VPN simply said "hidden location" or "encrypted location," etc. then it would not be an issue. It is no way the same thing as a username on the forum. As many who try to connect the dots between these two things, they are simply not the same at all.

It sounds like you agree that a purpose of a forum nickname is to be "safe". I agree.

Absent sinful intent, that is typically the same purpose of a VPN. It's why my employer uses one.

Who cares what state or city I'm currently browsing in? Advertisers? Troublemakers? I owe them nothing. My friends, my church, my family, and the people I do business with already know where I am. And the state can know if it wishes to.

I think this is an issue of conscience and that yours is delicate on this issue. And that's OK, because it means that honesty is very important to you. But not all of us share the same conscience. As long as my intent isn't sinful my conscience doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It sounds like you agree that a purpose of a forum nickname is to be "safe". I agree.

Absent sinful intent, that is typically the same purpose of a VPN. It's why my employer uses one.

Who cares what state or city I'm currently browsing in? Advertisers? Troublemakers? I owe them nothing. My friends, my church, my family, and the people I do business with already know where I am. And the state can know if it wishes to.

I think this is an issue of conscience and that yours is delicate on this issue. And that's OK, because it means that honesty is very important to you. But not all of us share the same conscience. As long as my intent isn't sinful my conscience doesn't bother me at all.

Again, a "username" on a forum to protect a person's privacy that everyone knows is not a real name (in most cases) is not the same thing as lying about your location.

A VPN does more than just hide your location.
It lies about your location.

It allows you to lie about your location and access content from outside the US that would be otherwise restricted to you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You seem to be equating your router’s IP address with the kind of information you are legally or for other reasons required to provide for some things, like your address or other personal details. Whatever IP address your connection routes through is meaningless. If it were as you say then you’d need to get a static IP address as a dynamic one wouldn’t necessarily be providing consistent info to whoever you are concerned might be trying to track you. It’s same as thinking you are lying if you say your car is German when some of the engine parts were made in S Korea. It has no relevant meaning.

This is not the same thing. If the car is German but parts were made elsewhere, it is saying that the designer of the car is a German designed car. If the car had parts from another country it is not lying because the design is still German. The creator behind the car is still German and the company is German owned, etc.; This is not the case if you tell others online that you are in a different location with a VPN so as to access content within another country that would have otherwise been restricted to you. It would be lying about your location. So no. Not the same thing.

 

[jamesbond007]

I think this is a misinterpretation of VPN technology in order to put the blame on Christians and make them feel guilty of sinning via technological advances. Are you Catholic?

 

[DamianWarS]

Should a Christian use a VPN or is that sort of like lying?

VPN is a virtual Private Network that attempts to tell others that you are in another location other than the one that you are at.

If you are still unsure of what a VPN is, here is a trailer promotion for a VPN company (Promoted on a Christian website).

Basically if you live in Denver Colorado, and you wanted to use a VPN (while you surf the internet), you would choose another city to show other people online that you actually were surfing the internet from a different city or location like say: Tampa, Florida.

Tech is used to exploit your internet activity and tech is used to mask your internet activity so it can't be exploited, which one do you like better? Both (in America) are legal so both are allowed.

VPNs just create a middle man to do your dealings then that middle man hands it over to you, that middle man's job is to protect you so I see no ethical issue with it in concept.

I recall Samuel entering the gates to anoint David but rather than telling what he was really up to he brought a heifer along and said he was there to sacrafice the heifer, and he masked the truth using this heifer under the authority of God. In some ways a VPN can be like Samuel's Heifer. This of course depends what activity you're trying to hide but privacy is allowed and we are allowed to seek privacy.

Consider countries censor things related to Christian content where a VPN frees this up. Using a VPN in this case would probably be against the law but are they justified in doing so they can read the Bible? Are you justified to protect your identiy from those trying to exploit it? How about the ones trying to steal your credit card? This very message was sent using a VPN connection so if it's a lie, you're now in participation of that lie by reading this post... go a ahead and report me to the authorities and see how much they care.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I did a little research online. It appears if somebody is truly worried about protecting their privacy, an SDP may be the way to go without having to lie about their location using a VPN.

An SDP is a Software Defined Perimeter (SDP), also called a "Black Cloud", is an approach to computer security which evolved from the work done at the Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA) under the Global Information Grid (GIG) Black Core Network initiative around 2007.[1] Software-defined perimeter (SDP) framework was developed by the Cloud Security Alliance (CSA) to control access to resources based on identity. Connectivity in a Software Defined Perimeter is based on a need-to-know model, in which device posture and identity are verified before access to application infrastructure is granted.[2] Application infrastructure is effectively “black” (a DoD term meaning the infrastructure cannot be detected), without visible DNS information or IP addresses.​

Source:
Software Defined Perimeter - Wikipedia

One such company called "Waverly Labs" (that is an open source software) can help you to create your own black cloud using your own servers.

Waverley Labs Announces Industry-First Open Source Software Defined Perimeter (SDP)

Here is a demo video from the website on

Demo | Waverley Labs

This essentially just makes you invisible or encrypted (from my understanding). So there is no need to lie by having a VPN.


Side Note:

Yes, there are black clouds (black internets) that people should avoid because they are bad news for criminal activity and in opening yourself up to some bad stuff that is out there.

Currently, I am going to pray about it, and ask God on what to do, and search the Scriptures.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think this is a misinterpretation of VPN technology in order to put the blame on Christians and make them feel guilty of sinning via technological advances. Are you Catholic?

My profile says in each of my posts that I am non-denominational. This means I am not affiliated with any particular named denomination. I just read and believe my Bible and follow it alone as my authority. Actually, most Catholics I have talked with don't have a problem with a VPN. Most today, really don't care. They don't think it is lying. But I am not buying it. A VPN allows you to access content in another country because you are lying to that country that you are from that location (When in reality you are not from that location). It is lying. If one does not have a problem with lying (under certain circumstances), then I suppose it is okay. I don't believe God wants me to lie under any circumstance.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Tech is used to exploit your internet activity and tech is used to mask your internet activity so it can't be exploited, which one do you like better? Both (in America) are legal so both are allowed.

Porn is legal. It does not mean it is not sinful.

VPNs just create a middle man to do your dealings then that middle man hands it over to you, that middle man's job is to protect you so I see no ethical issue with it in concept.

Nope. See the video in the OP on a promotion for an actual VPN company and what it does for you. If you don't want to watch the video, then check out my recent post #103.

I recall Samuel entering the gates to anoint David but rather than telling what he was really up to he brought a heifer along and said he was there to sacrafice the heifer, and he masked the truth using this heifer under the authority of God. In some ways a VPN can be like Samuel's Heifer. This of course depends what activity you're trying to hide but privacy is allowed and we are allowed to seek privacy.

Not the same thing. Samuel simply did not reveal all of the truth. Samuel did offer a heifer for sacrifice, but he used that as a distraction away from his other intended goal and or purpose. This is not the same as a person lying about their location with a VPN to access content in Hong Kong that would be otherwise restricted to them in another country, or lying about their location so as to get cheaper airfare prices. God never told Samuel to do something untruthful like lying with a VPN. Hiding the truth is one thing, and lying is another thing.

The Jews wanted to take up stones and kill Jesus because of His declaration to His deity. But to protect His mission in going to the cross: Jesus hid the truth by saying, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" (John 10:34). It was not a lie in what Jesus said. It was still true. He was merely hiding the truth. There is a difference.

Consider countries censor things related to Christian content where a VPN frees this up. Using a VPN in this case would probably be against the law but are they justified in doing so they can read the Bible? Are you justified to protect your identiy from those trying to exploit it? How about the ones trying to steal your credit card? This very message was sent using a VPN connection so if it's a lie, you're now in participation of that lie by reading this post... go a ahead and report me to the authorities and see how much they care.

Lying under any circumstance is never right. It would be like saying there is an exception to fornication, or theft, or child abuse, or rape, etc.

 

[literaryjoe]

Thank you for your input.
What is the best anti virus software for a Mac instead of Avast?
Is there a VPN out there that merely announces the location as being called: "Hidden" to hackers instead of naming a false location?

There are a lot of good options, but I am particularly pleased, personally, with both Webroot and Sophos.

I think you will be able to tell from the VPN's advertising; if they make a big deal about evading Netflix restrictions, for example, there is probably going to be something that makes you uncomfortable. However, most reputable VPN services should give you the ability to select what country you connect to. Nord VPN allows this, for example, so you could always connect to a VPN server in the US, and then you would not be falsely advertising your location. You might explore Nord VPN, Proton VPN, Express VPN, and Surf Shark for some well-respected, excellently performing services. You will have to experiment in terms of your comfort level with what they provide.

But, I urge you not to be over-sensitive about this. IP address and location is a fairly unreliable and indeterminate thing. Even if I'm not using a VPN, all retail stores (Home Depot, Best Buy, etc.) think I'm connecting from Sioux City, Iowa, and I live in Idaho. The reason that happens is entirely outside of my control (it relates to my ISP). So long as you're not attempting to deceive, but trying to secure yourself, I would say that this is not an issue you need to be overly concerned about. However, "to he who doubts, to him it is sin" (Rom 14:23), so you do need to assess your own conscience.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There are a lot of good options, but I am particularly pleased, personally, with both Webroot and Sophos.

Thank you.

I think you will be able to tell from the VPN's advertising; if they make a big deal about evading Netflix restrictions, for example, there is probably going to be something that makes you uncomfortable. However, most reputable VPN services should give you the ability to select what country you connect to. Nord VPN allows this, for example, so you could always connect to a VPN server in the US, and then you would not be falsely advertising your location. You might explore Nord VPN, Proton VPN, Express VPN, and Surf Shark for some well-respected, excellently performing services. You will have to experiment in terms of your comfort level with what they provide.

But, I urge you not to be over-sensitive about this. IP address and location is a fairly unreliable and indeterminate thing. Even if I'm not using a VPN, all retail stores (Home Depot, Best Buy, etc.) think I'm connecting from Sioux City, Iowa, and I live in Idaho.

But an IP address (without a VPN) is naturally connecting to that server location. It is not a lie. Your location for your server is truly there. A VPN attempts to lie about the server location. Lying is still lying in my book, my friend. What men do not see, God sees.

The reason that happens is entirely outside of my control (it relates to my ISP).

Right, and that would not be lying because that is how the technology works. A VPN attempts to lie about a server location from the real one that you have.

So long as you're not attempting to deceive, but trying to secure yourself, I would say that this is not an issue you need to be overly concerned about. However, "to he who doubts, to him it is sin" (Rom 14:23), so you do need to assess your own conscience.

There are sins that are not a matter of conscience.
Murder, lying, rape, child abuse, theft, etc. are always wrong.
In context: Romans 14 has to do with how we regard the Sabbath (Romans 14:5-6), and the eating of unclean animals (Romans 14:14-21).
I believe Christians are under the New Covenant, and the Saturday Sabbath is no longer binding, and that we can eat unclean animals. But if a brother is offended by our eating unclean animals, we should not do so in front of them and offend them. That is what it is talking about. It is not talking about the topic of exceptions in lying.

Anyways, if you disagree, we can agree to disagree in love.

Peace and blessings to you in the Lord.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@literaryjoe

Seeing your a techie guy: I am curious as to your thoughts to Waverly Labs (Which is an Opensource software using your own Black Cloud server) or their own recommended one (Panther SPD).

Check out post #107.

For me: An SPD seems like a better solution because it simply makes you invisible to attackers instead of lying about your server location with a VPN.

 

[Tom 1]

Lying is still lying in my book, my friend. What men do not see, God sees.

You really think God has any interest in whether or not you use a VPN? Seems rather pharisaical. That kind of ‘yeast’ can colour the way you think about a great many things.

 

[Tom 1]

This is not the same thing. If the car is German but parts were made elsewhere, it is saying that the designer of the car is a German designed car. If the car had parts from another country it is not lying because the design is still German. The creator behind the car is still German and the company is German owned, etc.; This is not the case if you tell others online that you are in a different location with a VPN so as to access content within another country that would have otherwise been restricted to you. It would be lying about your location. So no. Not the same thing.

And if you say ‘I am connected to the internet’ you are not lying by connecting using a VPN. Your location is a total irrelevance, you are not telling anyone you are somewhere else, because there is no-one to tell. It’s a nonsense question, it has no relevance to anything. Was a Pharisee working on the sabbath if his shoes had tacks holding the sole on? If someone hauled an ox our of a ditch on the sabbath was he sinning against God? Come on. There are more important things to be concerned with.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You really think God has any interest in whether or not you use a VPN? Seems rather pharisaical. That kind of ‘yeast’ can colour the way you think about a great many things.

In what way? Please explain better in more detail in what you mean.

Side Note:

Please understand that I do not hold to the idea that believers can justify sin and still be saved. I believe Christians must battle and fight against sin and put away grievous sin out of their lives. This would include myself. So if there is something that I am doing that is hypocritical and God talks to my heart about it, I seek His forgiveness and try to put that bad behavior out of my life. Why? Because I believe the Bible teaches that we are saved by both God's grace through in Jesus Christ, and Sanctification (Holy Living by God working through the believer under their free will cooperation). To see a more comprehensive picture of salvation described in the Bible, check out this CF thread here:

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

Blessings be unto you in the Lord.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You really think God has any interest in whether or not you use a VPN? Seems rather pharisaical. That kind of ‘yeast’ can colour the way you think about a great many things.

I believe God is interested in all things we do. God has the very hairs of our head numbered and He numbers even our steps.

 

[Tom 1]

In what way? Please explain better in more detail in what you mean.

Obsession over the tiniest points of the law. The size of phylacteries, not using shoes with tacks in the soles, in modern terms not using light switches and so on. The kind of quibbling over petty legalisms Jesus clearly had no interest in.

 

[Tom 1]

I believe God is interested in all things we do. God has the very hairs of our head numbered and He numbers even our steps.

God is very clearly not a legalist. That is very clear throughout the NT. Interest in the sense of care or personal interest is a different notion to obsession over points of law.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And if you say ‘I am connected to the internet’ you are not lying by connecting using a VPN. Your location is a total irrelevance, you are not telling anyone you are somewhere else, because there is no-one to tell. It’s a nonsense question, it has no relevance to anything. Was a Pharisee working on the sabbath if his shoes had tacks holding the sole on? If someone hauled an ox our of a ditch on the sabbath was he sinning against God? Come on. There are more important things to be concerned with.

Please see post #103 as to what VPN's do.

As for the Sabbath reference: I believe that portion of Scripture just fine. It does not relate to this situation because God never gave us an exception to lie. Jesus made it clear that the OT saint can help a neighbor's animal out of a ditch on the Sabbath because it is a special circumstance so as to love. There is no situation where it is loving to lie in view. Hiding the truth is one thing, but lying is another thing, friend.

Side Note:

I do not believe the Saturday Sabbath is in effect anymore. I believe the Old Covenant ended with Christ's death and we are to follow those commands that come from Jesus and His followers.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God is very clearly not a legalist. That is very clear throughout the NT. Interest in the sense of care or personal interest is a different notion to obsession over points of law.

God is very much into the keeping of His laws.
Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).