Should a Christian play "Devil's Advocate"?

[Floatingaxe]

Should a Christian play "Devil's Advocate"?


"Have you ever used a phrase or saying that you do not fully understand? We all have and do. We too frequently use idioms, especially, in our everyday conversation without the foggiest idea of where the particular expression originated or what it really means.

For instance, we might tell our children to "pipe down" when they are being a bit too noisy, and we need quiet to study. Most of us probably do not realize that this idiomatic statement comes from life aboard naval ships. The boatswain would blow various signals on a pipe or whistle to command the crew to do various things. Among the signals he blew were orders to "turn in" for the night and blow the "lights out" for sleep, when it was time for quiet.

Recently, I realized that, when I spoke of "playing devil's advocate," I had been using a phrase without really knowing what it entailed. Immediately after using it, I was left wondering what it really means.

Where did this phrase come from? What is its meaning today? More importantly, should we as Christians personify this phrase in our daily lives?

A little thought and study shows that a Christian faces real dangers in playing the role of "Devil's Advocate." It is time that we learned what it is all about."



Remaining article here:




http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction...388/Should-Christian-Play-Devils-Advocate.htm


edit: this is not a discussion regarding the term,"devil's advocate", but rather the practice.


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[ajqrszwn]

What the phrase "playing the devil's advocate" means to me is when someone takes a position that they don't actually believe in, in order to argue for its merits.

For example, in a room full of Christians debating abortion, there will pretty much be no debate, unless someone in the room takes the opposing side (and "plays devil's advocate") and takes a pro-choice stance. Playing devil's advocate in this case would mean that, while I am actually pro-life, I would take the pro-choice position just to argue the point. This can be good for discussion and there is a Bible verse in Proverbs that says, "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

There are generally good/strong arguments on both sides of any issue. If there weren't, then were would be no discussion and no argument, presumably.

But I think that it is only right to play devil's advocate after one has said their true position on the issue. For example, I would not argue for pro-choice without saying that I was pro-life.

But I definitely don't want to talk about abortion in this thread. Just my two cents.

AJ

 

[Floatingaxe]

No, we aren't going to debate any issue here---only the merits of speaking something which we do not believe (or is wrong, scripturally) for the sake of debate.

My view is that it is wrong for a Christian to do. Satan banks on the unwise one who will take on the argument for him.

 

[Deba]

As a Christion my words have power - as do yours. I think we should leave satan's methods to him.

 

[ajqrszwn]

No, we aren't going to debate any issue here---only the merits of speaking something which we do not believe (or is wrong, scripturally) for the sake of debate.

My view is that it is wrong for a Christian to do. Satan banks on the unwise one who will take on the argument for him.

I have seen a theologian "play devil's advocate". He played it so well, that when he argued his point (which he doesn't believe), there wasn't a Christian in the room (100 well-educated Christians) who could hope to refute him. The ironic thing was that he was teaching about the very position he was later playing devil's advocate against.

This thread about playing the devil's advocate may have some relevance to my friend's issue with false miracles. There are certain things that he does not know, but what he does know is that the church fakes miracles (and is one of a group of churches that do that).

AJ

 

[Elijah2]

Axe, my dear sister, what you are talking about self-spoken words, which can be self-cursing. We say many things, such as: wouldn't be dead for quids; he left me for dead; or any other sort of negative words. We need to remember what we say is what we are, and whatever comes from our lips, comes from the heart.

So, we need to be very wary of words that we say.

Even "Staff Edit) is in fact a new age usage, and isn't Biblical. Why would disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ use such words?

The same goes for the words "Father God" that most use in prayer, which is another new age usage, and is the opposite to "Mother God". My "father god" is my "Heavenly Father" or any other Biblical Name. Father God also comes from the term "father of gods". Anyway, this isn't a debate, and when I hear believers pray using that term, my whole stomach turns over, and my heart grieves, because most don't really know where that term comes from and it isn't Biblical whatsoever. Now those who support the use can ramble on as much as they like, but I know it's New Age, and I know where it comes from, and I don't intend to debate it or discuss it, because it's all up to those who don't consider Biblical terminology!

Blessings!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Well that isn't what this thread is about, E2.

I call God my "Father God" all the time. It is a beautiful address.

He answers to it!

 

[ajqrszwn]

I have seen a theologian "play devil's advocate". He played it so well, that when he argued his point (which he doesn't believe), there wasn't a Christian in the room (100 well-educated Christians) who could hope to refute him. The ironic thing was that he was teaching about the very position he was later playing devil's advocate against.

This thread about playing the devil's advocate may have some relevance to my friend's issue with false miracles. There are certain things that he does not know, but what he does know is that the church fakes miracles (and is one of a group of churches that do that).

AJ

I just took a look at the link that the original poster (FloatingAxe) posted.

Here is the continuation of the Article:

Origins and Meaning
The term "Devil's Advocate" dates back to the sixteenth century to an official office within the Roman Catholic Church known in Latin as the Advocatus Diaboli—literally, "Devil's Advocate." This person was a canon lawyer appointed by that church to raise doubts against the genuineness of the miracles of a candidate for canonization. He was to expose any lack of formality in the investigation of the miracles, and to assail the general merits of the candidate, whose cause is sustained by an Advocatus Dei—literally, "God's Advocate." The position was established in 1587 during the reign of Pope Sixtus V, and it was not abolished until 1983 by Pope John Paul II.
According to thefreedictionary.com, Devil's advocate is today primarily defined as "one who argues against a cause or position, not as a committed opponent but simply for the sake of argument or to determine the validity of the cause or position." Since the Roman Catholic Church office has been abolished, and with the passage of time, the modern-day usage of this phrase has become more general, simply to identify a contrarian of sorts.


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So the Catholic Church used to have a person who would check if certain things actually happened.

AJ

 

[Floatingaxe]

We are judged by every idle word we say. Taking the opposite and ungodly side of an issue for any reason other than the fact that it is one's own view is idle and unprofitable speech.


Matthew 12:36
And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak.

 

[ajqrszwn]

I think that if someone is being considered for Sainthood on the basis of a miracle, then it should be investigated. Perhaps there is no need for an official "Devil's Advocate", but there ought to be some investigation, at least at a basic level.

For example, the disciple's claimed that Jesus rose from the dead. For contemporaries, this is pretty easy to check. Is the tomb empty? Yes it is.

What is the explanation? The disciples stole his dead body from the tomb which was guarded by a cohort of Roman soldiers, and then the claimed him to be alive knowing that he was dead???!!!

Ridiculous. Jesus is the Risen Lord. And the proof is in the empty tomb, and in the miracles of the early church, through the Holy Spirit.

This is exactly the sort of reason why it is important to make sure that there is no messed-up theology that causes fake miracles to occur, especially the kinds that refer to miraculous healings and/or false resurrections.

There are a bunch of people who are faking miracles. I can't believe my friend would let it slide like that. But I am sworn to secrecy..... I know the theology (and only theologians can decide if it is messed up). But I think my friend wants to keep it a secret.....

AJ

 

[Floatingaxe]

Here's a quote from the link:

"Origins and Meaning

The term "Devil's Advocate" dates back to the sixteenth century to an official office within the Roman Catholic Church known in Latin as the Advocatus Diaboli—literally, "Devil's Advocate." This person was a canon lawyer appointed by that church to raise doubts against the genuineness of the miracles of a candidate for canonization. He was to expose any lack of formality in the investigation of the miracles, and to assail the general merits of the candidate, whose cause is sustained by an Advocatus Dei—literally, "God's Advocate." The position was established in 1587 during the reign of Pope Sixtus V, and it was not abolished until 1983 by Pope John Paul II.

According to thefreedictionary.com, Devil's advocate is today primarily defined as "one who argues against a cause or position, not as a committed opponent but simply for the sake of argument or to determine the validity of the cause or position." Since the Roman Catholic Church office has been abolished, and with the passage of time, the modern-day usage of this phrase has become more general, simply to identify a contrarian of sorts.

However, its origins cannot be ignored. Is it harmless in this day for us to play Devil's advocate? After all, is it just someone who argues the other side of a cause or position, or should we be conscious of something more?

We need to consider the question: Do we, as Christians, actually want to advocate for Satan the Devil? To provide another level of clarity, let us ask one more question: What is an "advocate"?

Using the same online dictionary, we find that an advocate is defined as "one that pleads the cause of another, specifically one that pleads the cause of another before a tribunal or judicial court; one that defends or maintains a cause or proposal; or one that supports or promotes the interests of another."

Using just the verbs in these definitions, we can see that an advocate is one who pleads, defends, supports, or promotes the interests of another. In this case, the "other" is Satan, the Adversary of God, His Son, and His true church! Do we really want to see things from his side? Or worse, take his side, even in argument?

While the Roman Catholic Church may have instituted an official Devil's Advocate more than four centuries ago, playing "Devil's Advocate" predates that church's practice by nearly 5,600 years. Interestingly enough, mankind has unwittingly played this role since the Garden of Eden."

 

[Elijah2]

Well that isn't what this thread is about, E2.

I call God my "Father God" all the time. It is a beautiful address.

He answers to it!

Now worries Axe I was using my comments in regards to words usage, by people not knowing where the words comes from. As I said that I thought you were referring to words spoken. If you use Father God, well I've mentioned where it came from so that's up to you.

Blessings!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Now worries Axe I was using my comments in regards to words usage, by people not knowing where the words comes from. As I said that I thought you were referring to words spoken. If you use Father God, well I've mentioned where it came from so that's up to you.

Blessings!

Well it comes from my heart. He's my Father God, and i don't mean anything but... many sisters and brothers in Christ I know call God that, and all of them are Spirit-filled believers with no new age influence among us.

 

[msbojingles]

Even [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] is in fact a new age usage, and isn't Biblical.

*blushing for the "wash my mouth" part!

 

[Floatingaxe]

*blushing for the "wash my mouth" part!

 

[Elijah2]

Well it comes from my heart. He's my Father God, and i don't mean anything but... many sisters and brothers in Christ I know call God that, and all of them are Spirit-filled believers with no new age influence among us.

Oh deary me, Heavenly Father sounds much better, because it's Biblical.

I understand what you are saying, Axe, but what I am referring to is also the Devil's Advocate!

If other spirit-filled believers practice yoga and martial arts, dabble in a little bit of Reiki, possibly some Wicca, a bit of magick through signs and wonders, and a bit of eastern mysticism and meditation all performed under false names.

Do you believe that by adding "Christian" to them and it makes them all harmless with no other religion's or occultic influences from demonic forces amongst the Body of Christ? Of course it does, because the fruit of it all is still the same fruit, and by changing it's name making it an oxymoron, and saying that they are not worshipping their deities, and not using it as a new age/occultic influence, doesn't change the reference of deity and the deities of those practices.

Axe, I'm not debating this, but expressing my concerns about the "devil's advocate", of those unfruitful works of darkness that is taking place in the Body of Christ using false names, and by accepting other religion's and occultic and new age practice into the church under the surmise that the deities behind those practices can have no place in those who practice such false practices just because they added "Christian" to it, and claim that they are not worshiping those deities. What a cop out!

Anyway, I not saying this to upset you, but put forth some spiritual commonsense in regards to that term "Satan's Advocate", more so than "Devil's Advocate"!

Blessings!

 

[Floatingaxe]

I don't have to be Biblical in addressing my Father, who is God. Heavenly tells me where He is---but Father God tells me WHO He is.

 

[Catherineanne]

Should a Christian play "Devil's Advocate"?

Yes, why not?

And what a wonderful job title that would be!!

 

[Elijah2]

*blushing for the "wash my mouth" part!

Oh well another Aussie terms means something different in the Land of America, it wouldn't be first time, so no use of me repeating it!

 

[Catherineanne]

Axe, I'm not debating this, but expressing my concerns about the "devil's advocate", of those unfruitful works of darkness that is taking place in the Body of Christ using false names, and by accepting other religion's and occultic and new age practice into the church under the surmise that the deities behind those practices can have no place in those who practice such false practices just because they added "Christian" to it, and claim that they are not worshiping those deities. What a cop out!

Have you ever considered decaf?