Should a Christian Join the Army?

[Archivist]

I don't necessarily see a war that happened almost 100 years ago, with a totally different political scene world wide, as being analogous to what is currently the situation in Canada. If you do, that's up to you, of course.

I'm not trying to debate because this is an advice thread, but I say this for clarification. The war between Canada and Japan (with the US on the side of Canada) began about 77 years ago, which is well short of "almost 100 years ago." My father fought the Japanese in that war, and I'm sure that he did not consider himself to be fighting in the same war that his father had fought against the Kaiser in Europe 25 years earlier (that war did end 100 years ago).

 

[Edwin627]

Have you ever checked out the difference on how the U.N. votes on Israel vs. the Muslims. Mho the U.N. is nothing but a globalist, anti Israel, anti American organization that is making us foot its bills. There are also many messages in their documents and in the art work in that building that are the opposite of Christian. They ain't Christians. They don't even claim to be. Where is their outcry over the Christians being slaughtered every day by Muslims? Can you find a single voice speaking out against abortion?

The UN missions where soldiers are sent to aid famines and stop civil wars are what I was talking about. Is it good or bad that they do that?
I'm definitely not defending the UN as an institution btw.

 

[gideon123]

The UN is not bad in everything they do. However, their defensive military missions overseas have often been criticized as poorly-managed.

Back to your OP. First, pray about it. And make sure if you join the armed forces, its for the right reason. Not just because ... you dont have anything else to do.

Some jobs in the Armed Forces can give you tremendous experience e.g
helicopter pilot. If you try to get these jobs in the civilian world, it would be very expensive.

Practically ... choose a job and mission that will give you good experience for the civilian world. For example, a firefighter, or a truck mechanic, can immediately use that training when they come out. But if you become a sniper, or go into an artillery unit, how can you use that experience to get a job later in life?? So give this issue some serious thought.

Best Wishes and Blessings!!

 

[RDKirk]

So following that logic, the USA should have never gone after Hitler and the Nazi armies?

The USA had an extremely different view of the use of military force back then. Extremely different.

 

[RDKirk]

Totally going ignore all the UN missions then?
Also if Canada has similar Rules of Engagement to the UK you cannot take lethal action unless there is an immediate threat to life (innocent or comrades).



Proof?

Nepal has a military force that is used for nothing but UN peacekeeping missions, so Nepal can use your argument.

The US military is rarely used for UN peacekeeping forces. In fact, there are right now fewer than 50 American military personnel involved with the UN, primarily as trainers that do not participate in peacekeeping operations. The US can't use your argument.

 

[RDKirk]

On the basis of that interpretation, no Christian should work for an unbelieving boss or alongside unbelieving workmates.

One can walk away from a job much more easily than one can walk away from a military movement order.

 

[RDKirk]

- In the US, the National Guard and the Reserves are still sent overseas to where we fight wars, which are not always against countries that have attacked us or declared war on us. If they always remained in this country as strictly a defensive backup, I would have considered them as options.

Let me give you a bit of info on that, something few civilians actually understand:

Prior to the 80s, it was true that the Guard and Reserves were called up only when a war became too much for the standing forces to handle. It took a separate act of Congress (in addition to whatever act or permission was given for the standing forces to go to war) to call the Guard and Reserves to war.

However, during the 80s came the concept of the Total Force, counting the Guard and Reserves as integral members equally deployable as the standing forces. When Congress and the Executive have agreed to go to war, that now automatically includes the Guard and Reserve.

And this is a further part of the change: Much of the standing force is dedicated to "cadre" duty--support and training roles that will never go to combat even during a war--while pretty much all of the Guard and Reserves are units that are dedicated to combat. If you join the active duty military, your chances of going to Europe or Japan or some place like that are very good. If you join the Guard and Reserves, you might not get called up at all...if the military is at war, your unit will be called up, and it will go to that war.

For instance, right now there is a war going on in Afghanistan. That war has been fought primarily by Guard and Reserve units, particularly when it was hottest. But we still have forces stationed all around the world in places that aren't at war--those are guys who went active duty.

 

[Grand_Commander_Zhou_Ziyu]

I would like to add a bit of my own insight. I was brought to faith by a brother who did not serve in the army, but had served in the Air Force (USAF) in the role of a soldier who guards airfields (forgot the name) and he went on a tour of duty in Iraq. Last time I heard from my brother Christopher he had enlisted in the navy after a fairly lengthy break from the military and was about to embark on a tour on board a ship.

So, do I believe that a Christian can be in military service? While I am sure that both in the Bible and in our world there are men and women in armed forces / police who follow God, I could never imagine serving any government, any military, and police force in any role or capacity. It is my personal conviction after seeing the essentially selfish nature of states and governments at the expense of the people. This applies to modern states and ancient states. China has never fought a major war since the end of WW2, but the US has had numerous entanglements in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. None of which I believe can be justified, no offense. States have committed countless atrocities in the name of pretty much everything, with Christianity being one of those banners. Once we dig deeper we find a lot of is ABSOLUTELY NOT BIBLICAL, but driven by nothing other than human lust for money, power, and status. Political Communism (the kind believing in a dictatorship of the so-called working class), a Godless ideology, has murdered more people in history than anything else.

What I believe is that when you serve in the military, it really feels to me that when you die, you do not die for your country because your country, as understood through the artificial construct of a nation-state, does not exist if not for the artificially drawn political borders. You sacrifice for the people who RUN your country, whose selfish interests will always be put in higher priority than your life, your livelihood, if they have ANY genuine concern for you. If you're a veteran, it feels to me that you are celebrated for the value you provided to the ruling elite, not for any of your personal qualities and values as a human being though of course they will make it sound as if you ARE appreciated because you are of God's creation. I am not targeting any nation specifically but the very nature of any military / government / police service.

While there is no doubt that there are individuals who are believers of the Lord and truly serve Him who also happen to be soldiers, officials, civil servants and law enforcers etc, as we can see both in this current world and in Biblical times, it is my personal belief that I would rather not be a Christian AND carry a gun in service of any government, because God's love and God's grace is NOTHING even the most powerful state will ever be able to match. If I can be a man of God while never seeing any bloodshed unless it is a genuine defensive, life-or-death situation, I would rather not. War can be justified, but I don't believe the wars being fought by major powers today can be justified, and to passionately believe in something like patriotism, which is an idol other than God, cannot be justified to my senses.

If you were to join a Western military today, which I assume for you would be the US military, how would you feel if you were deployed and constantly had to obey orders that go against your faith? How would you feel knowing that you're part of a relentless war machine in recent history that has destroyed, rather than save, the lives of hundreds of millions both directly and indirectly all for the gain of those in power?

Now, for a hypothetical scenario. Let's say the year is 2030 and the US, after the breaking down of multilateral diplomatic talks with major powers such as China and Russia, finally decides to use military force. Let's assume you're deployed to Eastern Europe, or perhaps the Pacific. Maybe Iran. How would you feel killing someone that could be a Chinese, Russian, North Korean or Iranian brother in faith? As unlikely as it might be when you're in a state of war, what would have happened had you met that guy or gal who's decently educated and reasonable, whom during another time, you could sit down and tell them about your faith and play your part, however small it may be, in sharing the Good News? These would be very difficult questions for me, so I'd rather not be put in situations where these questions may become things to consider.

I'm not a complete pacifist. If myself or a loved one were under life-threatening circumstances, I would use self-defense to protect myself and those I care about. However, actively participating in a profession that could, and in today's world, may very well lead to the shedding of blood sooner or later, all in the name of something as artificial and arbitrary as a nation-state, does not go well with me. While there are those in the military, government, and police who have had opportunities to praise and spread the name of God and His eternal salvation, I believe there are more peaceful ways to do so.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is how I truly feel. Peace be with you all. State affairs can be absolutely ridiculous. My conviction to not take part in any of it means that I don't want to be part of the problem / s. I hope you can appreciate and consider a bit of what I have written, Brother. Amen.

Furthermore, apart from spiritual questions to ask yourself, there are also other considerations. No matter how much the media or anything else may glorify war and military service, the military is not the place you think it is regardless of which capacity you serve in. Does a highly disciplined, regimented, no-nonsense lifestyle really fit you? Why or why not? Have you talked to anyone you know, or on the internet, who has served or is serving? What are their feelings? What do you think you will gain from military service? Are the gains really necessary, can they be obtained in another way of form? What will you have to lose?

EDIT: I apologize, you're going to serve in the Canadian Military and I'm currently in Richmond, BC (soon to change as I'll be leaving Canada permanently), but the point still stands.

 

[Neogaia777]

Good day all!

As some of you who see this may know, I am still new to Christianity and still have a lot of questions so please bear with me. But before I began to accept God and Christ more and more into my life, I was dead set on becoming an officer in the Canadian Armed Forces. More specifically, either an Infantry Officer, Armoured Officer, or an Artillery Officer. I truthfully felt nothing better than my patriotism, until as stated previously the bolder introduction of God. My plan was to serve this year in the Reserve Force, by this summer I would be in the Royal Military College of Canada. However, now I feel a bit... different? I suppose you could say. It is hard to explain what exactly happened, but my overwhelming patriotism sort of fizzled, and that pride isn't entirely there anymore.

I am unsure if it is God calling me to something different, or if it is just fear of being shammed, or doing the wrong thing in God's eyes. Of course "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the biggest commandments we all must follow, and being in the army you are called to kill in the name of your country. Since this I have also considered Priesthood, or possibly being a chaplain in the army (which would require me to be a Priest first, and in Canada a great deal of education on other religions).

If anyone could offer me some advice on this questioning, it would all be sincerely appreciated. Thank-you all in advance!

I might reason it like this: We have an enemy that is dead-set intent on killing us, even annihilating us, among other things, (enslaving us, ect)... And as of yet, there is no hope of negotiating a peace... And until that changes, we may be justified in doing whatever we wish against such an enemy...

An enemy who does not fight fair, who soldiers will strap a bomb to them, some young kids for the most part and/or literally, and blow up innocent people... everyday people, not soldiers, but innocents... Or who plant bombs in shadows, so on and so forth... And like I said, Until that changes... Well...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I might reason it like this: We have an enemy that is dead-set intent on killing us, even annihilating us, among other things, (enslaving us, ect)... And as of yet, there is no hope of negotiating a peace... And until that changes, we may be justified in doing whatever we wish against such an enemy...

An enemy who does not fight fair, who soldiers will strap a bomb to them, some young kids for the most part and/or literally, and blow up innocent people... everyday people, not soldiers, but innocents... And like I said, Until that changes... Well...?

God Bless!

And now these enemies will soon acquire nuclear technology and weapons...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I might reason it like this: We have an enemy that is dead-set intent on killing us, even annihilating us, among other things, (enslaving us, ect)... And as of yet, there is no hope of negotiating a peace... And until that changes, we may be justified in doing whatever we wish against such an enemy...

An enemy who does not fight fair, who soldiers will strap a bomb to them, some young kids for the most part and/or literally, and blow up innocent people... everyday people, not soldiers, but innocents... Or who plant bombs in shadows, so on and so forth... And like I said, Until that changes... Well...?

God Bless!

And now these enemies will soon acquire nuclear technology and weapons...?

God Bless!

Look if there is hope of peace, we should find it, or try to find ways to create it, and/or make it happen always... but if not, well...?

One may have to decide when they've had enough, like when they're (your enemy) about to acquire technology that would make them much, much more deadly and destructive...

God Bless!

 

[Francis Drake]

Look if there is hope of peace, we should find it, or try to find ways to create it, and/or make it happen always... but if not, well...?

One may have to decide when they've had enough, like when they're (your enemy) about to acquire technology that would make them much, much more deadly and destructive...

God Bless!

As someone famous once said, "Walk softly, but carry a big stick!"
I would add, let it be known that you are happy to use it.

 

[JoeP222w]

The USA had an extremely different view of the use of military force back then. Extremely different.

I agree, and I think a much more correct use of military force.

 

[RDKirk]

As someone famous once said, "Walk softly, but carry a big stick!"
I would add, let it be known that you are happy to use it.

Theodore Roosevelt said, "Speak softly, but carry a big stick," which is the opposite of what the US is doing today.

It's kind of interesting that China today is very closely following Roosevelt's method of turning an isolated nation into a world power.