Shooting at elementary school in San Bernardino

[Armoured]

I appreciate you volunteering to speak for everyone, but I can manage without representation.
Pretty sure you don't know my thoughts. If you do, please vacate my head. Thanks.

I note you don't say I'm mistaken...

 

[381465]

I note you don't say I'm mistaken...

You're mistaken.

 

[Armoured]

Either way, it's too late. You already have too many guns in circulation in the US. And too many of those are unaccounted for. Whether you implement stricter control or an all-out ban is irrelevant. The guns are already out there and as a consequence you'll have to deal with incidents like this. If any effective action was to be taken, it should have been taken decades ago.

"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now."

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Either way, it's too late. You already have too many guns in circulation in the US. And too many of those are unaccounted for. Whether you implement stricter control or an all-out ban is irrelevant. The guns are already out there and as a consequence you'll have to deal with incidents like this. If any effective action was to be taken, it should have been taken decades ago.

Correct, there's no "flip a light switch" option available as there are too many in circulation...however, they won't last forever, and implementing "from this day going forward"-style policies could certainly have a positive impact 10-15 years down the road...which, to me, is better than simply saying "it's bad now, there's no overnight quick-fix available, so let's just do nothing"

 

[Rion]

"Cheap" because I'm voicing the first thing everyone thought when the read about another shooting? Do tell, what's the appropriate time to wait before commenting? And if there's another shooting in the meantime, do we have to start the clock over?

If your first thought when hearing of a shooting is "I wonder if it was a Muslim" then that is on you, but don't try to excuse yourself by claiming that's what everyone else is thinking. My first thought was that it was another child who had been bullied.

 

[SolomonVII]

If your first thought when hearing of a shooting is "I wonder if it was a Muslim" then that is on you, but don't try to excuse yourself by claiming that's what everyone else is thinking. My first thought was that it was another child who had been bullied.

Actually, just tuning in, that is still what I am thinking.
Probably a white kid, middle class kid, too.
But I came here to learn more.

 

[Brent W]

Actually, just tuning in, that is still what I am thinking.
Probably a white kid, middle class kid, too.
But I came here to learn more.

MSNBC is reporting a murder suicide.

2 Adults dead, 2 kids injured. Teacher was shot. Domestic dispute is suspected.

4 shot in "murder-suicide" inside classroom of San Bernardino elementary school

 

[SolomonVII]

2 Adults dead, 2 kids injured. Teacher was shot. Domestic dispute is suspected.

4 shot in "murder-suicide" inside classroom of San Bernardino elementary school

Yup, sounds like a murder suicide, with some kids caught i te he cross fire maybe, rather than yet another mass shooting at a school.

 

[Armoured]

If your first thought when hearing of a shooting is "I wonder if it was a Muslim" then that is on you, but don't try to excuse yourself by claiming that's what everyone else is thinking. My first thought was that it was another child who had been bullied.

If you say so.

Of course, it turns out few school shooters are actually victims of bullying, although "bullied kid snaps" is, sadly, the prevailing popular wisdom.

https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/bullying_school_shootings_1.1.pdf

 

[GoldenBoy89]

On the aerial footage from the helicopter over the elementary school it shows the children all lined up outside being organized by the police and teachers to be taken to a local high school and university where their parents can pick them up. It made me smile to see some of the kids playing with each other. Hopefully the ones who weren't in the classroom are blissfully oblivious about what's happened. The parents being interviewed, on the other hand, are palpably filled with anxiety. The police believe the active threat is over because the shooter killed himself, but are still taking precautions.

I just got back on from an involuntary vacation from CF and the first thing I saw at the New Threads bar was this one and it immediately broke my heart to see it happened so close to home and with such young children involved (not like it'd be any better at a HS but, still).

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Not to take away from the direct topic of this thread but I do wonder how the new administration will make this ugly facet of America a little better than what it is now.

 

[Armoured]

Not to take away from the direct topic of this thread but I do wonder how the new administration will make this ugly facet of America a little better than what it is now.

More guns?

 

[Rion]

If you say so.

Of course, it turns out few school shooters are actually victims of bullying, although "bullied kid snaps" is, sadly, the prevailing popular wisdom.

https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/bullying_school_shootings_1.1.pdf

From your source:

"Not all shooters were picked on. Based on the available information, many school shooters simply were not picked on. This doesn’t mean that no one ever said a rude word to them; it means that there was apparently no pattern of harassment. Of the 48 shooters I studied, I estimate that approximately 40% experienced some kind of bullying. This means, of course, that approximately 60% did not. Even if my numbers are a bit off due to lack of information, this still suggests that approximately half the shooters were not teased or otherwise harassed."

"Perhaps not surprisingly, bullying appears to have been most prevalent among secondary school shooters. It was much less frequent among college shooters. Its role with aberrant adult shooters is difficult to determine because the peer harassment often occurred years before their attacks. Though it was not a recent trigger for violence, the suffering endured in childhood may have left deep scars and lingering rage."

Also, if you look at the targets, with kids it is almost always staff. It is possible they targeted people they felt were most responsible for their situation. Go read the shooter's words on the site you linked to.

 

[381465]

Not to take away from the direct topic of this thread but I do wonder how the new administration will make this ugly facet of America a little better than what it is now.

Not sure what any person or group could do.
Individuals have free will and some have evil intent.
I don't expect any mortal man to change the heart of another.
Murderers will murder by gun, knife, poison, pipe bomb, car truck, height + gravity, bare hands, etc.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

More guns?

I'm actually waiting to see Trumpers turn around and willingly support gun control measures after they're introduced by Trump as he talks some more about beautiful babies and what a horrible tragedy this all is with the guns and the bad hombres.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

If you say so.

Of course, it turns out few school shooters are actually victims of bullying, although "bullied kid snaps" is, sadly, the prevailing popular wisdom.

https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/bullying_school_shootings_1.1.pdf

I think that notion became popular after columbine (since that was one of the more high profile events in the US history) and those two happened to be the target of bullying. However, I've ready numerous other case studies that would indicate that "harassment" or "bullying" is only a factor in about 25%-40% of cases (by varying estimates and evaluations)

 

[Saucy]

I'd have thought it would be a fairly obvious proof of the need for sensible gun reform, but I thought that 50 or 60 mass shootings ago, so I'm not even going to try that one. But if you want to make that blindingly obvious argument, please don't let my ennui stop you.

What kind of gun control is that? Taking a gun onto school grounds, shooting a person, murdering them, shooting students, etc, is already illegal. There's no law that would've stopped this from happening. Gun-free zones don't work.

 

[Armoured]

I think that notion became popular after columbine (since that was one of the more high profile events in the US history) and those two happened to be the target of bullying. However, I've ready numerous other case studies that would indicate that "harassment" or "bullying" is only a factor in about 25%-40% of cases (by varying estimates and evaluations)

That was the narrative after Columbine, and I believed it myself. It turns out that the Columbine shooters weren't particularly bullied at all, nor did they particularly target bullies. Columbine is a very interesting case study, not just because of the shooters, but also in tracing the rumours and how they became considered mainstream "fact" in the aftermath.

 

[Armoured]

What kind of gun control is that? Taking a gun onto school grounds, shooting a person, murdering them, shooting students, etc, is already illegal. There's no law that would've stopped this from happening. Gun-free zones don't work.

Uh-huh. Which is why we no other developed country on the planet has school shootings at the rate the US has.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

What kind of gun control is that? Taking a gun onto school grounds, shooting a person, murdering them, shooting students, etc, is already illegal. There's no law that would've stopped this from happening. Gun-free zones don't work.

A person crazy enough to shoot people in a school, surrounded by children should not be able to have a gun in their possession. I don't know the way to get there but the end result should be fewer people that are crazy enough to shoot at kids in schools.