SHEPHERDS_GOOD AND HIRED

[alex2165]

Shepherds_Good and Hired


Because in the thread “Tithes” conversation led to this subject of the shepherds, I decided to make a new thread on this issue.


When I found this passage in John 10, I realized that the “wolfs” and “thieves” and “robbers” about whom Jesus was talking about and warned us, are those who serve today’s church for pay.


I cannot come up with any other conclusion who would point to those wolfs, thieves, and robbers, beside those who are on the payroll of the church.


Such HIRED “shepherds” use the “meat” and “wool”, (the money) of the “flock” for their own good, and because of it they neglecting to pasture and care for the flock of GOD. They are HIRED shepherds, and because of it they do not care.



Hired shepherd does not care for the sheep, because they are not of his – John 10.11-13


11.I am the good Shepherd, the good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

12.He who is a hireling (hired man) and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.

13.He flees because he is a hireling and is not concerned about the sheep.


14.I am the good Shepherd, and I know My own, and My own know Me.

15.Even as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father, and I lay down My life for the sheep.


One flock with one Shepherd – John 10.16


16.And I have other sheep which are not of this fold, I must bring them also, and they shall hear My voice, and they shall become one flock with one Shepherd.



Matthew 6.24, Luke 16.13

24.”No one can serve two masters, a slave will either hate the one and love the other, or be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve GOD and wealth.”


Luke 12.34

34.”Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”



1Peter 5.1-4


Shepherd the flock of GOD, but not for sordid gain.


1.Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,

2.shepherd the flock of GOD among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion but voluntarily, according to the will of GOD, and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness,

3.not yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.

4.And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.



Acts 20.33-36


The words of the true shepherd of GOD’S flock.


33.I have coveted no one's silver or gold or clothes.

34.You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my own needs, and to the men were with me.

35.In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak, and remember the words of the Lord Jesus that He Himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'(Luke 6.38) (Luke 14.14)


1Corinthians 9.17-18 (GNB)

17.If I did my work as a matter of free choice, then I could expect to be paid, but I do it as a matter of duty, because GOD has entrusted me with this task.

18.What pay do I get then? It is the privilege of preaching the Good News without charging for it, *without claiming my rights in my work for the Gospel.


This last portion of the verse 18 translated in Gideons Bible in this way:

*that I may not abuse my authority in the Gospel.



2Thessalonians 3.8-12

8.nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day, so that we might not be a burden to any of you,

9.not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, that you might follow our example.



Many people twisting the Word of GOD claming that “laborer deserves his pay”, meaning to be paid by money, but it does not say to be paid in money, but actually it mean on the contrary.


Matthew 10.10-11

10.no bag for your journey, or two tunics, or sandals, or a staff, laborers deserve their food.


Luke 10.7

7.Remain in the same house, eating and drinking whatever they provide, the laborer deserves to be paid ("paid"-NRSV, "wages" - KSB, in other Bible translated as "reward" and as "support"). Do not move about from house to house.


1Corinthians 9.13-14.18.24-25

13.Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the Temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share with the altar?

14.So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the Gospel to get their living from Gospel. (Matthew 10.9-10) (Luke 10.7) (1Timothy 5.17-18)


18.What then is my reward? That when I preach the Gospel I may offer the Gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the Gospel.



So, where is the money here? Nowhere to be found, but all necessary material things such as food and shelter can be provided to help struggling missionaries and pastors in their work for the Gospel.


But personally I do not know any of such missionaries or pastor who struggle today, never seen even one.


I am not against to donate money for a missionary or a pastor who truly struggle to make they ends meet, but I against to put them on the payroll as professionals, which is a serious violation of all the principals and ideal of the Gospel, and of everything indicated on this page.


And this is why Christianity today in such poor state, and many churches are empty and closing down, because paying “shepherds” and their associates are those who have been HIRED to tend the flock, but care mostly for money than for the “sheep”, and this is why from Sunday to Sunday we hear their meaningless demagogy and pointless preaching.


And the Words of Jesus Christ in John 10, directly relate to those who make their living of their congregation.


12.He who is a hireling (hired man) and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.

13.He flees because he is a hireling and is not concerned about the sheep.


John 10.1-16


Shepherd knows His sheep and the sheep know their Shepherd – John 10.16


1."Truly truly I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.

2.But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep.

3.To him the doorkeeper open, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name, and leads them out.

4.When he puts forth all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.

5.And a stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

6.This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.


Thieves and robbers of the sheep – John 10.7-10


7.Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly truly I say to you, I am the Door of the sheep.

8.All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

9.I am the Door, if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10.The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy, I came that they might have life and might have it abundantly.


And these statements describe those who follow the right Shepherd and those who follow the Wrong One.


If you follow your paying “shepherd” it is most likely he is the one who called by Christ as, “hireling”, means HIRED for money.


And this is why many Christians today have lack of knowledge and understanding of the Word of GOD, and are spiritual dwarfs in Christ and do not grow as Christians, and this leads to a very poor state of all community of Christians no matter of their denomination.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Shepherds_Good and Hired



Because in the thread “Tithes” conversation led to this subject of the shepherds, I decided to make a new thread on this issue.



When I found this passage in John 10, I realized that the “wolfs” and “thieves” and “robbers” about whom Jesus was talking about and warned us, are those who serve today’s church for pay.

In John 10, Jesus is teaching that He is the good shepherd because He loves the sheep and is about to give His life for them. He is speaking to some of the Pharisees (John 9:40), not to Christians about Christian pastors.

Paul, however, in 1 Corinthians 9:6-12 is writing to Christians about men who serve the church, and he writes that they have a right to be paid for their labor.

6. Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?
7. Who at any time pays the expenses for doing military service? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not get any of its milk?
8. Do I say this on human authority? Does not the law also say the same?
9. For it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned?
10. Or does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was indeed written for our sake, for whoever plows should plow in hope and whoever threshes should thresh in hope of a share in the crop.
11. If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?
12. If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we still more? (NRSV)

Indeed, they have more than a right to be paid—they need to be paid so that they do not need to work for a living at another job. During my first pastorate, I found it necessary to spend more that 60 hours per week at the church, in addition to the time that I spent performing my pastoral responsibilities outside the church. My congregation appreciated my service to them, and they were more than willing to pay me for it. I do not believe in tithing, and my congregation was never asked to tithe their income, but they gave because they wanted to give.

 

[Goodbook]

I think it means in terms of food and shelter, that pastors who shepherd the flock are rightfully entitled too. As they labour to look after the flock, so they ought to be provided for in this way.

Eg. Pastors usually live close to their church gathering place in a manse that is freely provided, and their food is provided for by church members. I dont think it means money like a salary.

Any money, which is actually belonging to caesar i.e govt issued, will be used to pay whatver bills and taxes that are required. I am not sure how it is in different countries with different systems of govt, but that is how I read it.

 

[twin1954]

In John 10, Jesus is teaching that He is the good shepherd because He loves the sheep and is about to give His life for them. He is speaking to some of the Pharisees (John 9:40), not to Christians about Christian pastors.

Paul, however, in 1 Corinthians 9:6-12 is writing to Christians about men who serve the church, and he writes that they have a right to be paid for their labor.

6. Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?
7. Who at any time pays the expenses for doing military service? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not get any of its milk?
8. Do I say this on human authority? Does not the law also say the same?
9. For it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned?
10. Or does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was indeed written for our sake, for whoever plows should plow in hope and whoever threshes should thresh in hope of a share in the crop.
11. If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?
12. If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we still more? (NRSV)

Indeed, they have more than a right to be paid—they need to be paid so that they do not need to work for a living at another job. During my first pastorate, I found it necessary to spend more that 60 hours per week at the church, in addition to the time that I spent performing my pastoral responsibilities outside the church. My congregation appreciated my service to them, and they were more than willing to pay me for it. I do not believe in tithing, and my congregation was never asked to tithe their income, but they gave because they wanted to give.

I used to hold the position that pastors were not to get paid a salary. But one day I was reading the passage you quoted and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I was not only wrong in my view I was unbiblical. That stung.

At the same time I am convinced by the Scriptures that most men who are vocational pastors only do it because of the imagined prestige and the power that often comes with it. They run the church like CEO's instead of being servants to the sheep. They do it for filthy lucre not because they care for the sheep. That is why they so often go from one congregation to another because the salary is better and their position more like an advancement in a company.

Getting an education to be a pastor is like getting an education to be an engineer or a doctor, it serves no purpose but to prepare you to do a job that you aspire to rather than being a called servant of Christ and His sheep. God prepares and equips His men, some who are educated and others not, and He puts them where He has prepared them for to a people whom He has prepared for them. Though I would not recommend it to others I do listen to local men who call themselves pastors and what I hear is not feeding the sheep with the Word of God or caring for their spiritual needs but mostly good advice you can get from Dr. Fool.

I was listening a few years ago to the local "Christian radio station" and a man was interviewing the pastor of a new Baptist church in the area.( There are so many Baptist churches in this area that you can hardly go a mile without passing one) and he asked the man what made his church different than the others around. The man had no answer. Why? Because it was no different. There was no need for a new church such as his He just wanted to pastor somewhere.

We ought to be praying that the Lord would send His men into the world to preach His Gospel of the free and sovereign grace of God in Christ Jesus alone. That He would give them a backbone that answers to no man but to Christ and His Word. That he would use those God called men to call out His sheep and feed them the bounties of the mercies of the Lord in Christ.

If God sends you one of His men recognize that he is a gift to you from Christ and take care of him.

Being a pastor is a calling from God not a vocation a man aspires to.